or Connect
TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › What really IS in "meat by-products"?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

What really IS in "meat by-products"? - Page 2

post #31 of 43
Or on the vitamins you take, after all, the gel coating on most pills is made from, you guessed it, the dreaded bovine by-product.

I read an article that stated that the only industry not involved somehow with the cattle industry is concrete production, which was later refuted in the same article as they DO add bovine bone meal to concrete in Europe. Can a vegan walk on that sidewalk?
post #32 of 43
Before this argument progresses, please read the FDA's regulations regarding meat by-products, and note that they apply to feeding ruminants:
There have been a number of cases of FSE among small and big cats in Europe. I don't have much time tonight to find official reports, but as soon as I find something, I'll post the link(s).
post #33 of 43
Here are some official (but outdated) FSE statistics:
post #34 of 43
Another official report dealing with CWD:
post #35 of 43
And a scholarly study of BSE/FSE:
I live in Europe, and have been experiencing the BSE/FSE scare for a long time. I don't believe that Stephen is overreacting, and I am under the impression that the issue has thus far been underplayed in the U.S. and Canada, as it was in the early days in the EU. We are occasional meateaters, and restrict our consumption to meat from organic farms for ethical reasons. JC has thus far only been fed cat food containing beef or mutton/lamb imported from the Americas. Now that there have been confirmed cases of BSE in North America, he will only get cat food with no meat by-products, regardless of the source, and I will pay careful attention to the adjectives "organic" and "human-grade". If we had kids, I'd probably raise them as vegetarians. For a real eye-opener, enter "feline spongiform encephalopathy" AND "meat by-products" AND "official (reports)" in your search engine, and read what you find. I truly believe that there is a bit more than mere "media hype" at play here.
post #36 of 43
Originally posted by jcat
And a scholarly study of BSE/FSE:
From that article:

The low-incidence epidemic of spongiform encephalopathy in domestic cats (FSE) has allowed an epidemiological study, but the small number has precluded analytical approaches. A standard epidemiological questionnaire has been used for the FSE cases. Analysis of these data have revealed a widespread geographical distribution and a similar clinical duration and mean age at clinical onset as for BSE. Suspected clinical cases of FSE are not statutorily notifiable, but analyses have indicated that a major epidemic has not gone undetected. The true peak annual incidence was probably of the order of 14 cases per million cats QW. Wilesmith, unpublished findings). Investigations of the possible source and means of infection of cats suggest that commercially produced cat food is the most likely source. The legislation introduced in September 1990 banning the use of SBOs (considered likely to contain the highest concentration of the BSE agent) in any animal feedstuffs would have prevented further exposure (HMSO, 1990). In addition, the pet food industry had already instituted a voluntary ban on the use of high risk tissues in 1989. These bans have been effective, as the incidence began to decline during 1996 and 1997 QW. Wilesmith, G.A.H. Wells and J.B.M. Ryan, unpublished findings). There has only been one case of SE in a cat born after the statutory ban - infection may have resulted from the relatively long shelf-life of canned products (introduced before the ban).
Items of note:

Peak annual incidence (the worst the odds ever were): 14 cases per million domestic cats. I realize that doesn't make it any better for those 14 cats, but statistically that rate of instances is 0.0014% of the population. And that was when the instances were at it's worst.

By 1989 commercial cat food producers had volunarily banned the likely sourse, in 1990 legislature was passed banning it. It states, "These bans have been effective, as the incidence began to decline during 1996 and 1997." This statement is corraborated by the statistics posted in the first link, which showed a total of 74 clinically diagnosed cases from 1990 through 1996, of which 49 of the 74 cases were from 1990 through 1993.

FSE has only been found in the UK and Europe, the countries where BSE was first found and generally prior to bans currently in place concerning commercial (and human grade) meat products.

FSE is also mentioned at this website: http://www.bseinfo.org/dsp/dsp_locat...ocationId=1259 at the bottom of the page in the box of information.
post #37 of 43
In the reading I did on FSE (from the official mad cow site, mad-cow.org, so a little biased most likely) the first documented case of fse in the UK was "Mad Max," a beloved siamese pet that was actually never fed cat food, he ate with the family and consumed the same food as they did. They said that the incidence of FSE is probably underestimated since most cats with neurological disorders are put down and no further testing is done. But because Max was so cherished by his family they wanted answers and ordered an autopsy to determine what had happened to him. There is a lot of interesting information on that site, but take it with a grain of salt because it seems that they present all the negative but none of the positive and it can be a little depressing if that is your only source of info!
post #38 of 43
Thread Starter 
Just for the record, my withdrawing from this thread had nothing to do with whether or not I agreed with what people were saying per se, but with their tone. I chose my words carefully, tried to be very clear as to what I was (and was not saying), and most of all (until the end) tried to avoid inflammatory statements.

My reward was that I felt I was being attacked by other members, and put down by them. It left me with a sour stomach, and so I left.

Not one person who disagreed with my posts ever bothered to post their own research, and in fact one of them actually defended their choice not to even read the link I had posted. That also was upsetting.

I realize that by posting again I may be accused of returning - but I am only posting to clarify why I left, and am not adding anything substantive to the actual subject of the thread.

And to those who PM'd me their support privately, thank you very much.
post #39 of 43
Thread Starter 
My last post was edited by Laurie D. because it contained a criticism of a moderator, which is a violation of TCS forum rule #7, and that part of my post was deleted.
post #40 of 43
They were the rules that you agreed to when you registered. To re-read them, click the red button at the top of any of the pages in the forum that says Rules.

As stated in that rule, if you have a problem with a decision made by the Moderating Team, please contact the forum Administrator and Owner.
post #41 of 43
I'm posting now as the individual who has previously participated in the thread, not as a moderator (just to make that clear ).

I for one did my own research to dispute the earlier claims on the thread, to present the facts from someone who is IN the industry in question and therefore is more familiar with the standard procedures and legalities than a reporter writing one story, who may or may not have an agenda. And from someone whose livelihood depends on being up to date with the current BSE situation in the US, knowing not only the scientific facts regarding BSE and other diseases and illnesses that affect cattle, but the affects that those diseases have on the herd and anything that feeds off of them, including humans and predator-carnivores.

I do apologize, Stephen, if you felt attacked for your views and statements, but I saw it as merely people disagreeing with your stance and the research that you presented. Just as I took a critical stance on the research that Jcat presented. I meant no personal attack on her, and I hope she didn't perceive any. It is difficult to read tone in typed words. Often times it may be that one person reads a tone that was not intended when it was written. It is one of the downfalls of communicating soley through static text.
post #42 of 43
Originally posted by valanhb
Just as I took a critical stance on the research that Jcat presented. I meant no personal attack on her, and I hope she didn't perceive any. It is difficult to read tone in typed words. Often times it may be that one person reads a tone that was not intended when it was written. It is one of the downfalls of communicating soley through static text.
I didn't perceive that as a personal attack, particularly because I was too lazy and tired to explain the reasons for my paranoia, since it would have meant translating several media and official reports into English. I do that for a living, and often I'm not in the mood to do it in my free time. We're right in the middle of a "food scandal" here in Germany. Cattle are supposed to be tested for BSE from the age of 24 months on. The Agriculture Department has just determined that at least 699 head of cattle entered the food chain last year without the prescribed tests, and 6 of those cases were from our local slaughterhouse. I have very little faith in food inspections here - the inspectors are severely overworked. Despite the added work, new staff has not been hired. There have been so many problems with foodstuffs meant for human consumption that it is virtually given that there are not enough quality controls for pet food. An added problem is that Jamie is hyperactive, and through trial and error we've determined that soybeans and beets are the culprits. We're still not sure about corn/maize, so I'm hypersensitive about "by-products". BSE and vCJD were downplayed here for so many years that I've lost all trust in governments' being able to deal with the problem.
post #43 of 43
I just checked - there's nothing in writing yet, but "preliminary results" of a long-term study by the Universität Göttingen indicate that the calves of cows with BSE are also infected. The problem is that most cattle slaughtered here in Germany are under 24 months (they have to be tested if they've passed their second birthday, so they're doomed to die young), and the test currently being used doesn't work before that age anyway. This was the big news on TV here today. The university has the last calves of cows that tested positive and/or had full-blown mad cow disease. Some calves have developed it, others are showing symptoms of it, and the researchers have determined that there are "differences shown in the blood tests" of many of these calves (details weren't given), which hopefully will enable them to develop a new test. Once the study is published, I'll post the link here - I just hope they publish it simultaneously in English, so that I don't have to translate it!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: IMO: In My Opinion
TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › What really IS in "meat by-products"?