Vet Read Me the Riot Act Today about Raw Feeding -- I'm Upset

So, I took my five and a half month old grey tabby kitten, Atticus, in to the vet today because he had this bizarre stuff on his tongue.  I honestly thought he had some cat heinous disease; however, it turns out he merely has a taste for his Fresh Step Cat Litter and has been eating it.  Then the clay gets stuck in the papillae of his tongue and collect other kitten detritus.  The bet and I were getting along so well until I mentioned that I was feeding him Frankenprey.  You would have thought I'd grown a second head.  The vet's whole attitude changed and she started preaching to me about splintered bones causing seepage and nutrient deficiencies and a whole host of other unpleasant things.  I adhere religiously to the the 80, 10, 5 & 5 rule and I have a digital scale and I spend hours each week sourcing and preparing the freshest, best meals I can for my two kittens.  I feel really defeated now, especially since she said the very best thing I could do for my cats would be to switch them back to a good canned food. 

I guess I just need a little reassurance.

Incidentally, this was the vet at the Orlando, Florida, Pet Alliance Clinic on Conroy.  She was absolutely lovely, but really made me question decision to feed raw.


ARG, I hate the uncertainty!

For what it is worth I think Vets fall into 2 camps. One is the group who really do not have much education in nutrition. It is well known that major food companies fund the vet schools and vets usually get no more than a semester of education in nutrition. Most of what they learn is which of their foods to recommend to the clients.Seriously, pick up a bag of the 'Prescription " diets these companies sell through vet clinics. Ask a vet to read the ingredient list and tell you why you should feed your cat this crap. At least your vet suggests a canned diet. For vets that is progress. Most think dry food is just dandy.

 The second group of vets know very well that dry food is horrible for cats. They see the link between kibble and various illnesses, but, they fear suggesting a raw diet because they worry clients may use ,say pre-ground grocery store meats or just throw cats a chicken breast without the other nutrients cats require.I can understand why vets are concerned , there are people who would not do it right.

I can't tell you what to do. I believe in the raw diet I feed my cats. I took a long time researching, asking question here etc. until I switched. I made adjustments and am fastidious in hygiene etc. Nothing is without risk , kibble certainly and many canned foods have ingredient's I don't want my cats eating.In the end you will have to trust your own judgement and have faith in your own ability to do right by your cat.

You have done your homework, you probably know more about feline nutrition than your vet does.My vet was okay with commercial HPP but really against the raw I prepare. It has been sometime now and she knows me better. We have talked a lot and she does see that my cats are very healthy. She never asks what I feed them and on the flip side, when I mention it she doesn't condemn it.

To add to what Maureen Bradley wrote... our vet, who's a cat specialist, falls into what Maureen calls the "second" group. Our vet's a big advocate of grain-free, canned foods, lots of meat, low carbs, and she's all for commercial HPP raw foods, too. She even recommended Catinfo.org and was glad I'd already read it! I like and trust our vet a lot. In talking about raw foods, she didn't seem to have concerns with raw food in general (I think she thinks it's good for them) but she mentioned concerns about balancing nutrients and sourcing clean meats: I got the distinct feeling she's seen serious cases of unbalanced meals and salmonella. We feed our cats a combination of canned and commercial raw foods, in part because I have similar concerns as the vet and don't have enough time to thoroughly research diets and meat sources and figure out what our moderately picky cats will eat. Maybe someday, though: I made one batch of food using Dr. Pierson's recipe and the cats loved it, so I'd like to try more.

I think the best thing that raw feeders--whether they're feeding full-time Frankenprey or a combination of canned and commercial raw foods, like us--can do is to keep doing a conscientious job feeding clean, balanced meals that their cats thrive on. Our vet seems happy with our cats' development and growth since she first saw them as underfed teenage kittens in late 2013 and I think every responsibly raw-fed cat that vets see helps show that various forms of balanced raw feeding are good for cats. Stories about litter boxes without smells are helpful, too!

On a slightly different note, I also wonder about an odd acceptance factor: pet food stores in my area tell me there's not much interest at all in raw food for cats. One store, for example, sells tons and tons of meat and bones for dogs but hardly anything at all for cats; people in several other stores have told me similar things about raw food demand for dogs and cats. My point is that I wonder if vets see things different for dogs and cats, too.

Anyway, @LavishSqualor, I hope you're not still feeling too down about this. I also hope Atticus stops eating the kitty litter. Does he have other pica tendencies?

I see this too in vets.  My vets aren't 100% on board with raw feeding but they don't try to change my mind.  Although they're always commenting on how nice everybody's teeth are...you'd think they'd make the connection.  But then, dental prophys are good money.

As long as you aren't haphazardly dropping meat into kitty dishes, I think you're probably fine.  You know about balancing muscle meat, organs, bone, etc.  FWIW, I find that attaining a correct average over time is more important than hitting the percentage on every meal. 

And, of course, wash your hands after handling meat and surfaces on which you prepare raw meat.  (Duh...)

LavishSqualor,

First and foremost, I hope the vet was able to give you some useful info as far as how to deter kitty from eating the litter - how odd! I've never heard that before other than some cats taking a few bites of World's Best, the corn based litter.

Please don't feel upset about being "reprimanded" by your vet as far as raw feeding. As Maureen, LisaHE and Kat have commented, you can see that there is a diversity of opinions re: raw feeding among vets although it does seem that the general consensus among mainstream vets is anti-raw.

As Maureen mentioned, just to see it from the vets pov, vets don't know who's who -- e.g., who will just take a piece of raw meat and throw it in the pet bowl, who might leave raw meat out all day for the pet to free feed, the sourcing of meats for raw feeding, etc.  And there probably have been instances where vets have seen and treated pets who may have had adverse reactions to raw. 

However, for every "unpleasant  thing" vets may associate with raw and have treated, how many more conditions and diseases in pets have they had to deal with due to bio-Inappropriate diets?

Mainly though, vets are taking their cues from the AVMA which is against raw feeding, (although the AVMA does appear to be pro HPP raw:  The AVMA discourages the feeding to cats and dogs of any animal-source protein that has not first been subjected to a process to eliminate pathogens ...) HPP is that process.

Regardless, there are many raw feeders, you included, who do homemade raw, whole prey, frankenprey for their cats and dogs and the pets are thriving.

Here is my experience with vets and raw: Vet number 1, salt of the earth personality, very much into the cats (he only has cats as patients), recommends feeding both dry and wet (when Mikey was underweight he said, "Just feed him dry food" , and make sure it's Hills / SD, of course). I wasn't feeding kibble. When I brought up the topic of raw, as you experienced, it wasn't even up for discussion, "DON"T FEED RAW!!!!" . Mikey is FHV.

Vet #2: Mikey was having some skin issues and vet #2, while not a vet dermatologist, has a lot of experience with animals and allergies. As soon as you walk in the front door - right there in the waiting room adjacent to the reception area, guess what is on display?  Primal freeze dried raw for sale, for both dogs and cats!

Which vet do you think I ended up staying with?

So there are different opinions. You have to follow your heart but take a good look at your two cats for guidance - do you see a difference in them (although I realize Atticus is only five months, don't know how long you've had him or the other kitten, or if you started them on raw from the beginning).

I always thought it was a joke, that vets typically just get one semester (roughly 30 hours) of pet nutrition training, not from a Ph.D faculty schooled in animal biology, but rather, from a Hills Science Diet sales rep, however, I guess there is some truth to that. And the focus seems to be on treating existing conditions with Rx diets rather than prevention and what is species appropriate.

I have always found it interesting (having worked several years now in pet food retail chain stores), that people who have e.g., snakes, lizards, geckos etc as pets will ask me, "Where are the crickets, the feeder mice, feeder fish?"  etc., they don't ask me for the processed cubes of food to feed their reptiles (and they feed those prey live, mostly).   But when it comes to dogs and cats, pet parents mostly come looking for bags of cereal.

Your experience today with your vet is not unique, unfortunately.

You are all very kind and generous to take time out of your day to try to make me feel better.  I'm terribly grateful.  I manage an apartment complex and had never owned an animal before in my life.  Several months ago one of my maintenance people brought me newly-born Atticus, still with his umbilical cord intact.  They'd found him in the trash compacter.  Given that the Universe had seen fit to give me a kitten I couldn't very well say no, so I took him home.  Once word got out on my (low income} property that I'd taken in an abandoned kitten, another kitten, about the same age as Atticus, showed up in a box on top of my car.  After that, I started working with a TNR group so the ferals on the property would get taken care of. 

So I now have two wonderfully marvelous kittens, Thirteen and Atticus, and I want to do the very best for them that I can.  Thank you, all of you, for your words of wisdom.  You've actually made my day.

LavishSqualor said:

 
So I now have two wonderfully marvelous kittens, Thirteen and Atticus, and I want to do the very best for them that I can.  Thank you, all of you, for your words of wisdom.  You've actually made my day.

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All the thanks goes to you, for rescuing those kittens,  words cannot express the sadness at how you came upon them, they are very fortunate.

LisaMarie12 said:

 
But when it comes to dogs and cats, pet parents mostly come looking for bags of cereal.

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This saddens me all the time especially when I go to my wholesale store and people buy a cartload of dry dog food... I just can't imagine it.. eating the same dry stuff everyday, day in and out. (I'm a huge advocate for variety in pet nutrition - but I know some cats are just picky, of course!)

Anyway, I only feed freeze dried raw and haven't been able to transition my kitty to what I call "real raw" but just wanted to also give you my support. I really hope pet nutrition becomes more well researched in the future and better products become available (and in affordable prices). 

If your cat is suddenly eating the cat litter that worries me that your cat is deficient in nutrients and is now having a strange craving for dirt or clay. I would suggest adding vitamins for cats to the food or trying a little cat commercial food. domestic cats do not need a raw diet. Some commercial foods are better. I use blue buffalo which has no grain or fillers. My cats are turning 17 years this august, commerical food only and started off with skim milk as kittens cause their mother disappeared after a month.

FluffyPokey98- I think we can have differing opinions on food. Feeding a grain free canned food is certainly better than a kibble.

I didn't know if you had seen this but if you are feeding Blue Buffalo you should read the following link. Just another example of why I try to steer clear of major pet food companies.

https://missingpetalert.wordpress.com/2015/06/14/blue-buffalo-admits-to-lying-about-ingredients/

Hi!  I would suggest to all writers-readers to avail themselves to investigate the extensive knowledge  found within  the  website of Dr Wendall  Belfield, San Jose Calif as well as any articles shown online about this wonderful human being....the "Father"  of Holistic Veterinary Medicine  [USA] !!  Everyone will benefit....including your own vets that do not know of him and his contribution to veterinary medicine.  ....  or were ever exposed to equivalent knowledge in their own journey into veterinary practice!   Dr Belfield is retired now...about 40 yrs in continued practice,  and at now 87 yrs he still provides this 'cutting edge'  knowledge of animal husbandry for all who come to his active website,  details of his interest and contacts in his remarkable journey along the way , and even moreso  his remarkable veterinary achievements, his wisdom and above all, his kindness to all creatures ---  including us ..... a fragile lot of humans who love our pets and are willing to seek out the best information available to us !!  Pass this on, you will be rewarded!  

lavishsqualor as the issue of your vet's reaction to raw has been addressed, I'd like to ask about the litter eating. It is pretty common for young kittens to take a few bites of litter here and there as they explore their environment. But more than that, and I become concerned about anemia. Litter eating is a very common pica when a cat is anemic. Was blood work done? If not, I highly advise you take your kitty - potentially to a new vet, in an effort to find someone more open-minded - for blood work, at a minimum a CBC, to check for anemia. They should be able to draw enough blood to run a hematocrit in house and send the rest out to be done in a lab. You can do a quick check if your kitties have pink gums. Compare the color. Is the litter eater lighter in the gums? If you can, press on them. How quickly does the color come back, and how big is the difference between the color normally and the white you cause by pushing? Again, comparing the two may be more instructive. If he's anemic, it is highly unlikely it is the diet.

fluffypokey98 I have nothing other than a growing body of others' experiences to back this up, but eating plastic seems to be the pica indicative of trace mineral deficiency.

FluffyPokey98 said:

...domestic cats do not need a raw diet.

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No. It is a choice. Please read the rules of this forum. As you'll note, fluffypokey98 , you are posting in the "Raw and Home-cooked Forum." I am not allowed to post that cats do not thrive on canned foods the way they do on raw in the Nutrition Forum. Likewise, please respect our space.

Fluffy, you're very kind to worry about Atticus; however, he isn't anemic.  My vet assured me of that.  Once I told her about the Frankenprey she asked to draw blood and I acquiesced.  We've already been back to get the results and my vet had to confess that Atticus is a perfectly healthy kitten.  In fact, she even went on to say that she thought he looked spectacular and really could not find fault anywhere.  However, tonight in clipping his hind claw feet, I've noticed "grooves' in them.  There's litter and other gunk in them that i've had to scrape out.  Are the grooves normal?

Oh wonderful! Just wanted to make sure given our experience with litter eating.

About the grooves - I never noticed!

LavishSqualor said:

 
Fluffy, you're very kind to worry about Atticus; however, he isn't anemic.  My vet assured me of that.  Once I told her about the Frankenprey she asked to draw blood and I acquiesced.  We've already been back to get the results and my vet had to confess that Atticus is a perfectly healthy kitten.  In fact, she even went on to say that she thought he looked spectacular and really could not find fault anywhere.  However, tonight in clipping his hind claw feet, I've noticed "grooves' in them.  There's litter and other gunk in them that i've had to scrape out.  Are the grooves normal?

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I'm very glad to hear your vet is coming around about Atticus's diet! As for the claws, do you mean that the hind claws are almost hollow and collected gunk? I used to notice that sometimes with our previous cat, when we trimmed her back claws after they'd break/split a little and catch on rugs. (Her front paws had been declawed before we adopted her at a shelter so I don't know how those might have been.) 

I'll have to try to get a look at our current cats' back claws, though they just had them trimmed at the vet's. I feel like I would be taking my life into my own hands to even try to trim these cats' back claws! Good for you!

LavishSqualor said:

 
Fluffy, you're very kind to worry about Atticus; however, he isn't anemic.  My vet assured me of that.  Once I told her about the Frankenprey she asked to draw blood and I acquiesced.  We've already been back to get the results and my vet had to confess that Atticus is a perfectly healthy kitten.  In fact, she even went on to say that she thought he looked spectacular and really could not find fault anywhere.  However, tonight in clipping his hind claw feet, I've noticed "grooves' in them.  There's litter and other gunk in them that i've had to scrape out.  Are the grooves normal?

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I love hearing stories like this. I wish more traditional vets would take the effort to learn more about feline nutrition than what the big pet food companies want them to know. I understand fully that that they have a lot to learn but cats and their owners are a big part of the average veterinary practice's clientele and owners go into a vet's office trusting that they will be given the best advice possible. Maybe your vet will open her mind a bit and actually look more into the benefits of raw. Good for you for standing your ground on this!! 

My cats eat some raw but mostly canned. They like the Rad Cat chicken and turkey and I keep it as part of their rotation. They are so picky and go hot and cold towards foods all the time. Usually after I buy a case or a bunch of containers of something. 

I'm fortunate - my vet is a "regular" vet (well internal medicine specialist) and he has no problem at all with the raw food I feed. One look at my cats is proof that a raw diet is great for shiny fur, extreme activity level (my Aby usually bounces off the exam room walls ) and overall health. My vet also knows that I am well educated pet owner so he tends to let me do whatever I want anyways and even tell him how I want things done (like when I had a diabetic cat)