Lamb or Pork for IBD Cats?

Hi everyone!
Could anyone tell me which meat is good for cats with IBD, lamb or pork?

I plan on feeding my IBD cat NV’s Instinct LID canned lamb or NV’s Instinct LID canned pork. 

ibdkitties.net said “Try feeding a novel protein like rabbit, lamb, duck or venison; something that your cat isn’t usually exposed to in their diet.“ How about pork? Does it mean that lamb is better than pork?  

Tabby was on NV’s Instinct LID canned turkey for three months, which made her stool hard. I changed her diet to NV’s Instinct LID canned rabbit a month ago, but it made her stool soft…   I was thinking of giving her probiotics or canned pumpkin, but the vet wanted me to hold off on adding anything in addition to the current regimen. I don’t know this is a good thing to do, but I added NV’s Instinct LID canned turkey to her food today. So currently she is on both NV’s Instinct LID canned rabbit and turkey.

I know that it would be wise to stick to a single protein for IBD cats. So eventually I need to change Tabby’s diet. I'm not sure which one I should try first; lamb or pork... Any thoughts? 

Also, my vet recommended me to try venison, but I couldn’t find a good LID canned venison without carrageenan or guar gum. If you know it, please let me know.

Thank you for any and all input!! 

There is really no 'better' protein when it comes to IBD kitties.  A trial of a novel protein is the idea behind trying to control IBD.  A protein simply being novel doesn't mean that it will work, the kitty may have issues with that particular protein as well.  I think pork is fine for kitties, it is in fact the main protein in Hill's A/D which is used for seriously ill kitties.  I know at one time it was thought that pork was bad for pets but there really isn't anything to back that idea up.

I agree with @Denice. You'd just have to try one, stick with it for a time, and see how it goes. I believe the lamb is higher in fat on a dry matter basis. The newly introduced NV LID Pork may be difficult to get on a regular basis if they don't keep up with production. A lot of the places had it in stock initially, but then quickly became out-of-stock once the word spread. I see it is back in stock on some sites.

Sebastian is allergic to guar gum, so I have to feed him foods without it, and he also does better on a diet with no more than 20-25% fat on a dry matter basis because of his chronic pancreatitis. I never really pursued giving him venison because it is a richer, fattier protein. Ziwipeak makes a canned venison, but it uses agar-agar, which some say is in the same family as carrageenan (http://www.ziwipeak.com/moist-cat-food-ziwipeak-daily-cat-moist-cuisine/#product-17558). Hill's d/d makes a prescription canned venison without carrageenan or guar gum (http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-feline-dd-feliine-skin-support-venison-formula-canned.html). Since your vet wants you to try venison, he/she may be willing to write you a prescription for this to order online or stock it for you in the clinic.

GoHolistic said:

 
I agree with @Denice. You'd just have to try one, stick with it for a time, and see how it goes. I believe the lamb is higher in fat on a dry matter basis. The newly introduced NV LID Pork may be difficult to get on a regular basis if they don't keep up with production. A lot of the places had it in stock initially, but then quickly became out-of-stock once the word spread. I see it is back in stock on some sites.

Sebastian is allergic to guar gum, so I have to feed him foods without it, and he also does better on a diet with no more than 20-25% fat on a dry matter basis because of his chronic pancreatitis. I never really pursued giving him venison because it is a richer, fattier protein. Ziwipeak makes a canned venison, but it uses agar-agar, which some say is in the same family as carrageenan (http://www.ziwipeak.com/moist-cat-food-ziwipeak-daily-cat-moist-cuisine/#product-17558). Hill's d/d makes a prescription canned venison without carrageenan or guar gum (http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-feline-dd-feliine-skin-support-venison-formula-canned.html). Since your vet wants you to try venison, he/she may be willing to write you a prescription for this to order online or stock it for you in the clinic.

Click to expand...

May I ask what foods you are feeding Sebastian? I am having a hard time finding foods to feed my cat, she is allergic to so much and not just the protein in canned foods. She eats the same food day after day which is Wellness Turkey. We go periods like we are now that she is not wanting to eat it. I think she just gets tired of eating the same food 3 times a day, day after day. Not only is she allergic to everything but she has IBD.

Snugglecat said:

 
May I ask what foods you are feeding Sebastian? I am having a hard time finding foods to feed my cat, she is allergic to so much and not just the protein in canned foods. She eats the same food day after day which is Wellness Turkey. We go periods like we are now that she is not wanting to eat it. I think she just gets tired of eating the same food 3 times a day, day after day. Not only is she allergic to everything but she has IBD.

Click to expand...

Sure. Well, over the past two years we've pretty much tried every type of food there is - prescription canned, commercial canned, commercial raw (frozen and freeze dried), homemade raw, and homecooked - always transitioned very slowly of course. He doesn't get dry food. The short story of it is, there isn't one magic food that Sebastian will do well on forever. Last year we had a long stretch of about six months that he did really well on a rotation of 70% quality canned and 30% homecooked (supplemented with Balance It). Perhaps this is something to consider for your kitty? Canned turkey with homecooked turkey? Shortly after that I put him on 100% homecooked pork for two months. In the second month, he had one of his worst flare-ups and I thought I was going to lose him. Nobody can seem to understand it. Unfortunately, his medical condition is way beyond what any diet will help with. 

Also, once he gets sick while eating a certain food, he won't eat that food again - at least not for awhile. Most recently, he doesn't seem to be able to tolerate "things with wings." Since that last flare, I've been giving him canned foods again since that is what he seems to be the most stable on. He was on NV rabbit again for awhile and did okay. I now have him on a 50/50 mix of NV beef and FirstMate salmon, mainly to bring down the fat content (the beef is high, the salmon is low). He's doing surprisingly well on this (knock on wood!). I was scared to introduce the salmon because he hadn't had any fish in two years. Perhaps that is why he is doing well on it. It's acting like a novel protein for him.  He won't be on this forever either. What comes next? I have no idea. I was thinking of going out and hunting squirrel. 

Certainly not all circumstances will be like Sebastian's, and not all IBD cats will have such a difficult time as he. But I never give up. I will try my hardest for the duration of his life. There will be setbacks and it's scary. But I always do what is best for Sebastian. I never force anything he is clearly not doing well on. I observe his demeanor and watch for signs of illness. I only change one thing at a time so that I know what to attribute it to. This not only applies to food, but supplements and medications, as well.

Gah! I've written a much longer post than I intended. Sorry about that! 

@MommyTabby, let us know what you decide about the lamb vs. pork (vs. venison).

Hi Denice & GoHolistic,

Thank you so much for your response. I see, I need to give a try… Hmm, I haven't decided which meat I should try though… 

Do you know what is the easiest food to digest for cats: venison, lamb or pork?

That’s good to know that Hill's d/d makes a prescription canned venison without carrageenan or guar gum!! Thanks for the link! I can ask the vet for a prescription, but she already didn’t like that I changed her diet a month ago… I’m not sure she would give me one…

Should we need to avoid high fat food for cats with IBD? I checked NV’s website, LID Lamb has 232 calories per can. Tabby has continued to gain weight, even though I’ve been doing portion control. So I guess lamb is not good for her…?

I’m sorry for asking many questions again… 
Thank you so much for all your help and support! 

MommyTabby said:

Do you know what is the easiest food to digest for cats: venison, lamb or pork?

Click to expand...

I can't really answer this. It really depends on what a cat can and cannot handle. Some can't handle red meat, some can't handle poultry, some are allergic to certain proteins, etc. In this sense, they really are very individual. If there aren't any other concerns to consider, I'd say they're all equal candidates, except perhaps for the possible availability issue with the NV LID pork. If weight gain is a concern, the d/d venison and NV pork are only slightly lower in fat and calories than the lamb.

I forgot to mention previously that you can always try rotating brands of the same protein if you have a cat who wants variety. Even though you're sticking with the same protein, their little walnut brains (I say this with love) think, "Hey, look, something different!" LOL. For example, if you decide to try pork and Tabby tolerates it well, you could slowly introduce another pork canned food, such as Lotus Just Juicy Pork (real shredded pork meat) and rotate those. And if that goes well, you could slowly introduce perhaps some supplemented homecooked pork to offer in rotation. I can't emphasize slowly enough. If there are signs of digestive upset, then you reevaluate. Here's the outline of the no-guar-gum rotation that Sebastian did well on for six months: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/274500/best-rotation-to-prevent-food-allergies/60#post_3572252   It really was a great six months. Even though we aren't doing this now, I still think it's something to consider for IBD kitties. Of course, raw is an option, too, and has helped many IBD kitties.

MommyTabby said:

Should we need to avoid high fat food for cats with IBD?

Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Cats need fat. But some, like Sebastian, have a difficult time with fat. It probably has more to do with his chronic pancreatitis. I wouldn't worry about this right now as it relates to IBD. But if weight gain is a concern, then fat, calories, and portion control are all things to consider together.

GoHolistic,
Thank you so much for your kind and helpful reply. 
So, it really depends on Tabby! I wish Tabby can tell me which one she wants to eat…! My local pet stores don’t have those. I need to buy a case online, if she wouldn’t like it or it’s not good for her then it hurts my wallet… I still have two cases of rabbit.  

GoHolistic said:

If there aren't any other concerns to consider,

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, there is, Tabby has small kidney stones. The vet told me since the stones were very small, it wasn’t necessary to remove it by surgery. 

Thanks for the idea; I think it’s a good idea to choose a food that has low in phosphorus since Tabby has small kidney stones! So I checked their website;

Hill d/d venison has Phosphorus 0.70%.
NV LID lamb has Phosphorus 0.20%, 
NV LID pork’s page doesn’t have information about Phosphorus…

Well,,, Nature’s variety uses “Guaranteed Analysis”, while Hill’s uses “dry matter”...​ Are they the same… maybe not...  

Does anyone know how to convert it? 

Anyways, since I added NV LID turkey, her stools have improved a lot! I'm relieved, however, I still need to change her diet. Turkey is poultry, the vet assume she is allergic to chicken. 

Little walnut brains  haha SO cute!! I checked the post, Sebastian is so lucky to have such a good chef! I like the idea of rotating brands of the same protein! I want to try other brand’s LID rabbit. But it’s so difficult to find the food without carrageenan or guar gum…

GoHolistic said:

Of course, raw is an option, too, and has helped many IBD kitties.

Click to expand...

Yes, I have read many posts about it. I would like to try it, but my regular vet wouldn’t recommend it due to bacteria… I actually asked three different vets about raw, all of them against raw… I’m afraid to try… 

I really appreciate your help and kind attention !

MommyTabby said:

 
My local pet stores don’t have those. I need to buy a case online, if she wouldn’t like it or it’s not good for her then it hurts my wallet…

I still have two cases of rabbit.  

Click to expand...

I've run into the same issue and have had to donate literally CASES of food that my cats either didn't like or couldn't tolerate. The Nature's Variety 5.5 oz. cans only come in cases of 12, so I guess that's better than 24 cans of something that you're just trying out. You could also try buying single cans at certain websites, such as www.itsapetslife.com. I see they have the NV LID Lamb, but not the LID Pork. They also carry Lotus Just Juicy and some others you could browse.

MommyTabby said:

Unfortunately, there is, Tabby has small kidney stones. The vet told me since the stones were very small, it wasn’t necessary to remove it by surgery. 
Thanks for the idea; I think it’s a good idea to choose a food that has low in phosphorus since Tabby has small kidney stones!

Click to expand...

I never had a cat with stones, so I admit that I don't know much about them. Sorry. can't help you much there!

Originally Posted by MommyTabby  

Hill d/d venison has Phosphorus 0.70%.

NV LID lamb has Phosphorus 0.20%, 
NV LID pork’s page doesn’t have information about Phosphorus…

Well,,, Nature’s variety uses “Guaranteed Analysis”, while Hill’s uses “dry matter”...​ Are they the same… maybe not...

 

Does anyone know how to convert it? 

Click to expand...

They are not the same. The Guaranteed Analysis gives "as-fed" values with moisture still intact. In order to effectively compare nutrient levels between different foods, everything needs to be converted to dry matter basis (DMB) in which we take out the moisture content.

Hill's is already given on a dry matter basis (DMB), so the phosphorus is 0.70% DMB.

NV will need to be converted to DMB since they only give you as-fed values. I like to use this calculator: http://fnae.org/dmb.html

Using the calculator, LID lamb turns out to be 0.80% DMB.

As far as the LID Pork goes, you will have to call NV to get this information. I do not recommend emailing them. You may not hear back for months! (That's my experience, at least.) When they give you a value for phosphorus, be sure to ask/confirm if the number they gave you is "as-fed" or "dry matter basis." Then you can convert if needed.

Originally Posted by MommyTabby  

Anyways, since I added NV LID turkey, her stools have improved a lot! I'm relieved, however, I still need to change her diet. Turkey is poultry, the vet assume she is allergic to chicken. 

Little walnut brains

 haha SO cute!! I checked the post, Sebastian is so lucky to have such a good chef! I like the idea of rotating brands of the same protein! I want to try other brand’s LID rabbit. But it’s so difficult to find the food without carrageenan or guar gum…

Click to expand...

Hmm...I'd be hesitant to change foods, too, if she's doing so well on the NV LID turkey! Not all cats who have trouble with chicken will react to turkey. My Boo gets itchy on chicken, but I still have turkey in his rotation. I'm not saying you shouldn't listen to your vet. But maybe later down the road, turkey could be introduced again and see how she does?    And, yes, I do know how difficult it is to find foods without carrageenan or guar gum! 

I really appreciate your help!Hi GoHolistic,
Thank you so much for your reply and the resources you have given me! YAY! DRY MATTER BASIS ONLINE CALCULATOR!!!

I have decided to go for NV LID lamb! Hope Tabby likes it.

I’m thinking to donate food to a local shelter, too. Not only LID rabbit, I have another 5 or 6 canned food cases that Tabby doesn’t want to eat them anymore…  

I should write more clearly: she’s currently on 50% LID rabbit and 50% LID turkey. LID rabbit makes her stool soft and LID turkey makes her stool hard… I mixed them half and half, so far so good, but that’s not a single protein diet. I want to find a food that a easily digestible and single protein diet that will help her resolve IBD. I’m scared to change her diet, but lately she’s been doing well, so I hope she can take it! I greatly admire those that feed the diet and do it successfully!

I really appreciate your help!  

MommyTabby,

I'm late in seeing your post.

I've had good luck with pork, actually.  Although I am now doing freeze dried raw pork (and I know you don't do raw but just as an example), I have also used NV's original pork as well as the LID pork. 

See if you can find the phosphorus of pork - I have heard, but I'm not entirely sure, that the meat is a lower phosphorus protein.

It is my understanding that pork is:  a lean and easy to digest meat containing a fuller chain of amino acids than chicken. Lamb is also fairly easy to digest but it is a fattier meat, generally.

Maybe you could do a combo of both - LID lamb and pork.

I don't feed my cats lamb, I tried a few times, and venison also, but my cats have skin allergies and those proteins made it worse for them.

Anyway, I've had good luck with pork and rabbit, which is what the cats are currently eating, mostly.

I'm surprised to hear the LID rabbit is giving kitty loose stools, very sorry to hear that. I haven't read all the responses you've received here but I do know on another thread (about pork actually), one member looked at the DMA of LID rabbit and it was coming up high in fat.

If you are concerned about phosphorus b/c of kitty's kidney stones, have you discussed with your vet the possibility of adding a phosphorus binder to kitty's food?

Good luck, you are doing a great job with kitty's IBD.

MommyTabby said:

 
Thank you so much for your reply and the resources you have given me! YAY! DRY MATTER BASIS ONLINE CALCULATOR!!!

I have decided to go for NV LID lamb! Hope Tabby likes it.

Click to expand...

You're welcome! Good luck with the lamb and let us know how it goes. Remember....go slow!

I'm also surprised the LID rabbit gives your girl loose stools. 

Hi @LisaMarie12! I feed Sebastian both the NV regular and LID rabbit in rotation with other proteins because they are lower in fat that most others. He wouldn't be able to tolerate it otherwise. On a DMB, it's about 20% min (that is, if the GA is accurate). But I do also remember a comment about a particular rabbit food being surprisingly high in fat (because rabbit is a lean meat). I think it was in reference to S&C frozen rabbit - 35% DMB!

GoHolistic said:

You're welcome! Good luck with the lamb and let us know how it goes. Remember....go slow!


I'm also surprised the LID rabbit gives your girl loose stools.  :scratch:


Hi @LisaMarie12
! I feed Sebastian both the NV regular and LID rabbit in rotation with other proteins because they are lower in fat that most others. He wouldn't be able to tolerate it otherwise. On a DMB, it's about 20% min (that is, if the GA is accurate). But I do also remember a comment about a particular rabbit food being surprisingly high in fat (because rabbit is a lean meat). I think it was in reference to S&C frozen rabbit - 35% DMB!

Click to expand...

Thank you GoHolistic,
Yes, rabbit is a lean meat, very true. The comparison of NV LID rabbit, DMB was alongside Primal's FD pork (and frozen rabbit) and both came up far lower in fat than the canned, not surprisingly, I guess.

Sorry, I should have clarified, thanks though!

Hi LisaMarie12, GoHolistic & everyone! 

Thank you so much for your response and your kind words!

I started adding the LID lamb to her food, she seemed like it. Although she peed and pooped outside of the litter box this morning…   I’m not sure this was related the changing diet… Her stool was normal. She sometimes does “elevator butt peeing"...   I kind of suspect when she does “elevator butt peeing”, that’s because she feels funny in her stomach or intestines…? I don’t know. How about your cats??  

LisaMarie12, I was glad to hear that you had good luck with both NV's original pork and the LID pork!  If Tabby doesn’t do well with the LID lamb, I’ll try the LID pork! 
I wish my vet is not so against a raw diet… But if I cannot find a single protein canned food that’s good for her, I would like to try it! 
Sorry that your cats have skin allergies…  
No, I haven’t discussed with my vet about adding a phosphorus binder or any kind of kidney friendly diet. So far her urine and blood test results are normal. I couldn’t decide which canned foods I should try, so I was thinking of low phosphorus for her kidney stones.

 GoHolistic, Yes! I’m currently adding only 1/16 of a can for each meal. Not sure if she would notice it, but she eats really well!  

Have a purrfect day! 

I have added pork to my cats food and Charlie is doing great. I was first making a homemade diet using TCFeline with just chicken thighs/liver, but after I started adding in pork lion she is able to digest her food much better. She's a speedy eater with a tummy easy to upset (gastric reflux) and with most commercial foods she'll just throw up. I also add 1% dry pumpkin/cranberry powder which also appears to help stop her regurgitating.