kitten pees a lot!?

Hi, I'm a first time cat owner and I am concerned with my little guy's frequency of urination. He is 14.5 wks old and he pees a lot! I find 7-8, sometimes 9 pee clumps in the litter box per day. And two of the pee clumps are more like huge slab-like, crumbly big "clumps"....I mean they're huge! I mentioned the frequent urination to the vet last Thurs (5 days ago) when I went for another concern (his anus is sometimes red/raw, I've started another thread about that), but now the peeing is taking front and center stage in my attention because he just went 2x in the past hour and a half! The first pee was normal sized for a kitten, I think, but the second pee was teeny-tiny!

The vet did run a urinalysis on Thurs and left me a msg Fri to say that they didn't find crystals or an infection, but she didn't say anything else. She didn't propose further investigation. I went to a different vet this past Monday b/c I didn't like how everything progressed at the first vet (that they gave him a booster when he was clearly under the weather b/c of the anus/urination issues). I explained to the new vet everything that had transpired at the other vet. She ordered another urinalysis, bloodwork and a fecal test (b/c of his irritated anus). She called today and left word that the bloodwork came back as "nothing out of the ordinary for a kitten" and the fecal test was negative. I'm doing a free catch urine sample to save Boone from being stuck again with a needle, so I need to bring them a sample for the urinalysis.

Couple questions that I'm hoping someone on this wonderful forum can help me answer

1) Would bloodwork results indicate if there were kidney problems? How does one diagnose kidney issues? From what I've researched, Boone's frequent urination could be due to diabetes or kidney disease. Yikes! I adopted him 5 wks ago and I had no idea he had these issues, poor thing. They gave him a clean bill of health at the SPCA. He has always gone to the bathroom a lot since I got him.

2) However, even though he has always peed a lot, only in the past week, week and a half have I noticed that the fur on his penis is matted after peeing.  Is this normal? Is it thickened pee stuck to him? The pee in the litter box looks of normal consistency from what I can tell, but it's hard to say when it's so quickly absorbed into the litter. But the pee is definitely not bloody and doesn't have a mucous like film. He doesn't seem to be straining when he's peeing and he doesn't cry out and he doesn't pee anywhere besides the box. he just goes A LOT.

3) Could the anal issue and urine issue be related?

4) Should I feel confident that the negative fecal test is accurate? I collected a poop and promptly refrigerated it about 13 hrs before the appt. But then later I saw a poop in the litter box the morning of the appt. But it had probably been sitting there for about 3-4 hrs. I refrigerated that one too, but it HAD been sitting out in the litter box for those 3-4 hours. The vet receptionist said to bring both and the dr. would decide which to test. I brought both and she said "fresher is better" so she picked the one that had sat out in the litter box that morning. I said, but it wasn't promptly refrigerated after coming out of Boone like the other was, but she just said again fresher is better. I'm confused. Everything I read says if it's refrigerated promptly it can be viable for 12-24 hrs. Wouldn't that be the fresher one vs. the one that dried out in the litter box sitting there for 3, possibly 4 hours before I came home and saw it and THEN refrigerated?

Boone is eating a wet-only diet (Wellness Kitten Formula and Wellness Core and Blue Indoor Formula for Kittens, but I also have been mixing in Canidae Pure Elements) I have spent rather a lot on all these tests, and I'm pretty much tapped out. Plus, his food costs are getting scary...As it is, I'm about maxxed out, so any feedback would be so appreciated! His energy level is good (finally recovering from his booster) and his poops look of normal consistency. He doesn't strain anymore since I started giving him pumpkin with every meal.

Many thanks for reading and posting any replies!! Very worried mom here

Aww, sorry for all your issues & worries. I can understand since I have a cat with urinary issues. But at this point, your kitty has had at least 2 urinalysis & 1 fecal tests, right? If both vets aren't finding anything, I wouldn't keep worrying & creating an issue that isn't there. For urinary issues related to crystals & stones, you'd be looking for the opposite. Little to no urination & painful behavior, as you know. 

The irritated booty could be related to the food. There is some anecdotal evidence that Wellness foods irritates cats with urinary issues. Since it doesn't appear that yours does, I wouldn't be too worried. But I would look into feeding only wet food. There is tons of evidence that dry food dehydrates a cat & can cause and make urinary issues worse. Have you been able to inspect the poop soon after it coming out? An irritated behind could be because of constipation. That used to happen to my cat before I switched him to all wet. 

I can really only answer one of your questions and that is about the bloodwork.  Depending on the test the vet ran, it will show kidney disease.  I would call her and actually ask her if the purpose of the tests was to check for kidney disease and diabetes.  Kidney disease is a strange thing - some cats can live for a long time with it; others pass fairly quickly.  My Wesley lived until he was 19 and was diagnosed with kidney disease when he was about 11.  He did pee a lot and drank a lot of water so yes, all the peeing could be a kidney issue.  However since I suspect the tests were for just that, I suspect this isn't the issue.

You could also ask the 2nd vet where she recommends you go from here.  It will probably be an ultrasound and/or x-rays if anything at all.  Ask her point blank what else can cause frequent urination and if your babies peeing habits are within normal ranges.

About the matted appearance after he pees - I think this is probably normal.  He's still very young and growing so I'd expect to see some changes.  I've actually never checked my boys so don't know.

The anal issue totally has me stumped.  It sounds like it could be diet related, though I don't know the ins and outs of cat nutrition the way some people here do.

If you are worried about the fecal test, the best thing to do is rerun it and just take in a sample that has been refrigerated the whole time.  It's probably fine though.

I wish I could be of more help.  Maybe you could put together a list of your questions and fax them to the vet's office and ask the vet to call you back and talk to you about them.  Since you just were in there, it's reasonable to call back with follow up questions.

@riavach--thank you for your reply! Boone's had 1 urinalysis done so far and I'm due to bring in a free catch sample sometime this week when I have time for his 2nd (as it's included in the panel the vet ordered Mon.) He has had one fecal test run, but I'm worried the stool was sitting in the litter box for 4 hrs before collection, so how viable is it?

I completely agree that stressing out doesn't help solve anything, and I don't want to pass on my anxiety to Boone, but I am perplexed at the lack of answers at the vet. I am also worried that he may have kidney issues as frequent urination is a symptom of that. He doesn't drink tho'! He is otherwise pretty active since recovering from that frightful, awful vaccine reaction.

He is on a wet-only diet and I add pumpkin and some water on top for each meal (so he gets at least that added water in him). I added pumpkin a couple weeks back b/c he was straining while pooping and his poop was hard and black. Now it's normal looking, good color and he no longer strains.

Interesting about the Wellness not helping urinary issues. I'll look into that! Thanks!!

Had your little guy been neutered when you got him?

The matted fur could be from the strength of the stream causing damp litter particles to mat into his fur. Just clean him up with a warm damp cloth.

I think you might want to try a different brand of wet food, like Fancy Feast canned, and see how he does with that. It may be that the Wellness just doesn't agree with his system.

Do you clean his bottom after he poops? If there is any poop or pee getting on his back end it could cause irritation. Again, a warm damp cloth will help clean and soothe. If it seems sore you can rub some olive or vegetable oil on it for natural emollient relief.

Do you notice if he drinks a lot of water?

How much and how often are you feeding him?

What is his current weight?

I have four healthy kittens the exact same age as yours - three of them male - and none of them pee that much. Something is not right.

Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this.

kittengirl

I see you just posted saying that he does not drink much water. Glad the pumpkin is helping. Another trick is to add a few drops of olive or vegetable oil to his wet food. The oil helps with constipation.

Would your vet possibly give him a round of antibiotics to see if it helps? I realize the lab tests are not finding anything, but it sure can't hurt to try.

@Margd-- thank you for all your input! I really appreciate it!

I have no idea what bloodwork they did, or what they were looking for. I'm not sure if they were investigating the frequent peeing or the anal issue, or both? It sounds like your Wesley lived a wonderfully long life! Boone doesn't drink a lot tho, unlike Wesley, in fact I never see Boone drink. I will most definitely ask the vet about the blood tests if I can ever get her to call me back! I've left two messages since yesterday, and I haven't gotten a call back.

Thank you for understanding that I just would like a few quick questions answered in follow-up! I wish the vet understood that! If they tell me I have to come in and pay for another office visit to get questions answered, that's not right, is it?

kittengirl said:

 
@Margd-- thank you for all your input! I really appreciate it!

I have no idea what bloodwork they did, or what they were looking for. I'm not sure if they were investigating the frequent peeing or the anal issue, or both? It sounds like your Wesley lived a wonderfully long life! Boone doesn't drink a lot tho, unlike Wesley, in fact I never see Boone drink. I will most definitely ask the vet about the blood tests if I can ever get her to call me back! I've left two messages since yesterday, and I haven't gotten a call back.

Thank you for understanding that I just would like a few quick questions answered in follow-up! I wish the vet understood that! If they tell me I have to come in and pay for another office visit to get questions answered, that's not right, is it?

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I do think it's reasonable though can appreciate that your vet is busy and has to grab a few minutes between clients to make the call.  However my old vet always called back and talked at length to me when I had follow-up questions so that's why I suggested you call yours.  If she asks for an office visit, ask how much for a phone consult.  Maybe she will do that?  However it might not be necessary because I agree with sarthur2 about the possibility of trying antibiotics.  That was one of my thoughts as well, to just try a trial run and see what they did.  If you do that, then you have to go back in anyway.
 

kittengirl

No, it's not right.

How much and how often does he eat?

What is his current weight?

@sarthur2

oh, you have 4 kittens! And the same age as Boone! How lovely! So your 3 males do not pee as much as Boone? Eek!!! I knew that something was amiss...

He was already neutered when I adopted him from the spca. He is actually peeing now as I write this. He just peed a little over an hour ago. He goes so often.

Yes, I clean his bottom right after he poops with a cotton ball or Kleenex moistened with warm water. He's used to it by now.. But I'm now thinking his poop isn't what's irritating his booty but the act of pooping. The reason I say this is I brought him to my parents' house for a visit to see "grandma" and "grandpa" over the weekend, and I always have a litter box there for him. While there, he went in the box, but my parents and I were all standing over him and watching to see it and his bottom, and I think we freaked him out with all the attention. So after sitting "in position" for a minute, he leapt out of the box. There was no poop in the box. I picked him up just to inspect his booty, and whereas it was normal looking when we arrived at my parents' (it had subsided down from the last time he pooped), it was red and raw again! So just the act of "starting" to poop or go thru the beginning push motion maybe made the irritation start! Right?

But what does that mean?? Could it be an anal gland issue since they're deployed in the act of pooping? Or something wrong with his muscles? Does this sound parasitic? Bacterial?

To answer your other queries: he weighs 4 lbs 10 oz. I feed him 3-4x a day depending on if he asks for that 4th feeding.

kittengirl

Some oil will soothe his bum.

It may well be an anal gland issue.

His weight is good, and 3 to 4 feedings of wet food is good too.

Can you purchase some kitten chow and leave it down for him at all times? I am wondering if some dry food will help his excessive peeing.

My four kittens are 17 weeks old and I have never seen any of them pee this much. They do go a few times a day each, but less and less as they grow. Mama kitty pees twice a day. Once in the morning and once at night. She poops once a day, but the little ones go more often, but nothing like what you describe.

I feed mine wet food 3 or 4 times a day - Fancy Feast - which they love. They do drink water and kitten milk, and love to nibble on kitten chow throughout the day and night. They have had this diet since they weaned.

Although your little guy has had constipation, I am still wondering if he doesn't need a little more bulk in his diet in the form of dry kitten chow, plus a change in his wet food.

It can't hurt to try a different diet since he sounds healthy otherwise and the labs are not showing any problems.

What are your thoughts on possibly changing his diet?

That's mama kitty with Pumpkin in my avatar, by the way!

I'm sorry you're having problems with this sweety.
Two weeks ago, I rescued Dahalia from under a car where I use to live. She drank a LOT of water, ate little, peed small amounts frequently. I mentioned it to the clinic where I was going to have her spayed (I volunteer for the parent organization); they did a pre-anesthesia blood work, which should some elevated numbers, particularly BUN and Phosphorus. Recommended a complete CHEM test and urinalysis--possible kidney issues. Took her right to the vet, took a urine sample, recommended waiting for a few days until we repeated the test. It was possible a UTI traveled up to the kidney. Well, the urine analysis came back clean so we were back to square one; working theory, kidney infection.
Over the next week, Dahalia slowly decreased her water consumption and increased food amounts (she was anorexic for a while). Repeated the blood work--results much better.
In Dahalia's case, it may have been a transient problem with her kidneys, may have been from stress, or chronic dehydration. She was outside for several weeks in record setting temperatures.
Ritz picks up on my stress, so I have learned to act like I am not concerned, yeah, much easier said than done.
I would ask the vet if a more complete CHEM test would be of help, especially if your cat continues to exhibit abnormal drinking/peeing.
Good luck.

So I've been monitoring Boone closely. I worked from home today, and today he did something he's never done before! He peed outside the litter box!! I have a basket that I keep in the livingroom with newspapers in it, and I heard some scratching and went to investigate. Boone had peed this huge amount of pee in it! I was shocked as he'd always been fastidious about using the box. I quickly picked him up and placed him inside his litter box, but he was already done peeing. He again peed 9x yesterday and is on his way to peeing 9x again today. On the plus side, I got to see his pee was very dilute and not thick since it was just sitting on top of the newspapers. (Altho I think I read that copious amounts of dilute urine is actually a sign of something bad, does that sound familiar to anyone? I've read SO much on feline urination....)

A diff vet from the one I saw Monday called me from the spca clinic. She said my vet was out of the office until Sat. So the vet I spoke to said his blood results showed no disease, there were elevated levels of phosphorus she said, but she said that's common in kittens. I asked pointblank if there were any signs of kidney disease or diabetes, but she maintained that his tests "look fine". I forgot to ask if BUN/Creatinine were tested, and I should do that tomorrow, yes? I am also going to bring in a fresh urine sample tomorrow when I get off work in the afternoon.

He just peed again (in the box) while I was writing this and I got up to check. That pee was a teeny tiny pee. I am so confused!! Some pees are HUGE and some are small. What gives? I really would like the vet to provide some answers! Oh yeah, the vet I spoke to on the phone yesterday said, "maybe that's just how often your cat goes." Does that sound right? A cat "just goes" pee NINE times a day? I really hope the vet isn't taking the easy way out, I would hate for us to miss something more serious afoot. Plus, now Boone has peed outside the box, so isn't that cause for concern? I will most def mention this to vet tomorrow when I call in to inquire if BUN/Creatinine were run.

Any feedback would be so much appreciated! Thanks!

p.s. I bought a cat fountain yesterday and so far Boone just sniffs at it and thinks it's weird. I have not seen him drink from it or his water bowls all day (I haven't seen him drink in weeks actually, so maybe he's drinking when I'm asleep, but the water level is always the same....)

@sarthur2  mama cat & pumpkin are so cute!!

Thank you!

Have you decided not to change his wet food or try adding in kitten chow?

@Ritz  I'm so glad to hear that Dahalia is doing much better! She is lucky to have found you I understand what you're saying about Ritz picking up on stress. I don't think I'm acting overly panicky around Boone or anything, but I am super vigilant about every time he goes to the litter box when I'm home, I get up and stand (or crouch) next to it and watch him. So maybe he doesn't really like that. But we still cuddle and play and laugh, I just don't understand why he's peeing soooooo much, and now using places other than the litter box....

@sarthur2  I have thought about changing his brand of wet food. I did some research on the stories online of Wellness canned perhaps being an issue with cats with urinary issues, but all the stories seem to pertain to urinary blockages, which Boone sure doesn't have. I did buy some Evo canned for Kittens and Chicken Soup of the Pet Lover's Soul canned for kittens, so we'll try that out. I am hesitant to introduce the kibble back into his diet as when he was on combo wet/dry before, he had the straining and constipation....

I will admit this is strange in that his water intake doesn't seem to be increased.  If he had kidney disease or diabetes, he would undoubtedly be drinking large amounts of water, and losing weight as well.  Also, I'm pretty sure of they ran a CBC, the BUN/Creatinine would be part of that.  (I have a kidney cate, so speaking from some experience here) 

BUT, dilute urine is cause for worry.  However what you think is dilute and what is actually dilute might be two different things .  Peeing out side the box is worrisome, UNLESS he just had to go and it was too far to the box.  Could he have a UTI? 

@mrsgreenjeens   So if it were genetic kidney disease (since he's so young--15 wks) or diabetes, he'd be drinking large amounts of water? He's definitely not doing that, so that's good news! Will a routine urinalysis determine if his urine is dilute? I don't have any idea what is tested in a urinalysis. How does it differ from a urine culture? Should I request a urine culture? I read that if urine is dilute, a urinalysis won't pick up the bacteris, so a urine culture is needed. I do think he has a UTI myself.... 

It sounds that way to me, especially with those tiny pees when he appears to strain. And cats pee out of the box when they have UTI's. I had a cat who had them frequently and she peed everywhere during a bout. That's actually how we knew she had flared up again. Maybe you can ask the vet to treat him for a UTI and see if things improve.

kittengirl said:

 
@mrsgreenjeens   So if it were genetic kidney disease (since he's so young--15 wks) or diabetes, he'd be drinking large amounts of water? He's definitely not doing that, so that's good news! Will a routine urinalysis determine if his urine is dilute? I don't have any idea what is tested in a urinalysis. How does it differ from a urine culture? Should I request a urine culture? I read that if urine is dilute, a urinalysis won't pick up the bacteris, so a urine culture is needed. I do think he has a UTI myself.... 

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You know, I'm not honestly sure on your questions.  I would think ANY form of kidney disease would result in lots of drinking.  Where else would all that urine come from.  It can't come from no where.  I asked my hubby, who was a nurse, and he confirmed that in order to produce lots of urine, you have to take in fluid in some form. 

As to what test they do to determine how dilute the urine is, all I can tell you is that for our Callie, they always extract it directly from her bladder with a needle for that test, but apparently that's pretty common even to test for a UTI, but don't know if it's done during the same test or not.  Don't think so.  Those are questions for the Vet...sorry

Are you familiar with this website?  I couldn't find your answers there either, at a quick glance, but it still might help you, just in case:   http://www.felinecrf.org/index.htm

@sarthur2   yes, I concur with your thoughts.  I think I will ask the vet to treat him for a UTI at his next appt this coming week. Thank you!

@mrsgreenjeens   good point! where IS all that urine coming from? He is on a wet-only diet tho, so maybe there? I bought a cat fountain a few days ago and I think he must be drinking from there when I'm not home (I have never witnessed him drinking from it, and it's not in the room he's in when we're sleeping) because the water has gone down slightly. Unless that's evaporation. But he had the copious amounts of pee before I even bought the cat fountain....thank you for taking the time to ask your husband, I appreciate that!! I took in the free catch sample yesterday, test results coming in Monday. He did have the needle in the bladder method a week and a half ago and that came back clear, said the vet. She said no sign of crystals or infection. But sometimes, from what I've read online, the infection can be in the lower urinary tract that the needle method doesn't pick up....I am interested in seeing what the urinalysis from the free catch sample will say...hoping it's just an infection and not early kidney disease!