Help! Having Trouble with 5 orphaned kittens!

And, I understand what your vet said, and also what the lady said about the powder. But you're asking for help, and we are offering advice. The kittens are not improving, so it can't hurt to try what we are suggesting. I don't know how much longer the kittens will last, quite honestly. So rather than being "stuck in an endless cycle" as you say, please take some of the measures we have suggested to save these kittens.

sarthur2 said:

And, I understand what your vet said, and also what the lady said about the powder. But you're asking for help, and we are offering advice. The kittens are not improving, so it can't hurt to try what we are suggesting. I don't know how much longer the kittens will last, quite honestly. So rather than being "stuck in an endless cycle" as you say, please take some of the measures we have suggested to save these kittens.

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Hi, I'm gmoda's sister. We really are trying to help them out with your suggestions but like my sister stated my mother is in charge and extremely reluctant to switch them over (she says it will jolt their systems switching to something else so quickly). Two of them are doing well (the third, Violet, is eating well but not growing as much as the other two), but Red and Whitey are still very small. I'm going to try and keep convincing and helping out as much as I can, but right now I think finding a foster is our best bet. 

Read the last couple days of entries on this thread.  The poster is also hand rearing a kitten and switched to the powder form of KMr and it made a huge difference.

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/300725/help-caring-for-single-newborn-kitten/30

 Have your mother read the posts in the link above Handsome Kitty provided. It is a direct example of the benefit of the powdered type of kitten milk replacement. Hopefully that will convince her..

G gristol

I wish you only the best for your kittens.

Thank you @sarthur2 we really appreciate everything you guys have done for us. I know it may seem like I'm not listening but I am, I really am. Please understand that my family and I do not have access to all the supplies and treatments you guys listed; hopefully we can get access to powder soon. In regards to fleas and medications, the kittens are just too small to receive any treatments, (this is what our vet told us). I will take all the incredibly helpful information and use it to the best of my ability. You people care and that is an amazing thing to me, thank you for all your help so far. We may have spots for them to be cared for by a foster parent that knows what their doing( someone with far greater experience). Keep these kittens in your thoughts.

Just so you know, many vets have no experience with small kittens. Most of us on this forum have quite a lot of experience with exactly the problems you are having.

Kittens CAN be treated for worms and infections, and many a kitten is saved by these treatments that would otherwise die.

Please let us know the outcome of these orphans.

G gmoda

Gmoda said:

 
Thank you @sarthur2 we really appreciate everything you guys have done for us. I know it may seem like I'm not listening but I am, I really am. Please understand that my family and I do not have access to all the supplies and treatments you guys listed; hopefully we can get access to powder soon. In regards to fleas and medications, the kittens are just too small to receive any treatments, (this is what our vet told us). I will take all the incredibly helpful information and use it to the best of my ability. You people care and that is an amazing thing to me, thank you for all your help so far. We may have spots for them to be cared for by a foster parent that knows what their doing( someone with far greater experience). Keep these kittens in your thoughts.

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If the rescues are turning you away due to lack of foster homes, you could be the foster parents and they would provide the medical and some supply food.  They would also help find homes for the kittens.

Gmoda said:

 
They currently eat 3-4 ml per serving and 6 times a day. So, approx 24 ml a day. When we took both Red and White to the vet, they gave us supplement for them since they had low blood sugar; we give those two a finger tip of the stuff. My family and I have very very little experience with kittens this size and age, and I can't help but feel we're doing it all wrong.

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You had got lotsa of good advices.

I want to comment some points not yet clearly answered.

What is EXACTLY this supplement for low blood sugar??   Plain glucose sugar powder, = dextrose, is what I would give.  But perhaps it was essentially such a glucose sugar powder you got?  It appears some people have difficult to find it.   We do have it in Sweden, so I gather its accessible in US shops too.  It may be labelled dextrose, or dextropur, or similiar.

Others mentioned white caro syrup or even honey - that is the same idea, if you dont find the packages of glucose sugar in your food shop. 

KMR is made in powder and liquid premade.  Theoretically, it should be exactly the same.  But our experienced forumites who use both, tells that in powder is more reliable - that liquid premixes tends to give diarrheas.   Thus  switching to the powder version may with a little luck be enough to stabilize their diarrhea.

KMR in powder do have also an stage II variation for a little older kittens.  Dont bother with this, continue with stage one.

As earlier said, pedialyte, gives not only extra fluid and elektolytes flowing away with diarrhea, but also, is in itself somewhat a stopper of diarrhea.  Home made pedialyte is the main weapon against the great man killer cholera, alone bringing down the death ratio from perhaps 80% to perhaps 10%....

In poor villages they dont have more than at best a  village sick bay, manned by a couple barefoot nurses and at very best also a visiting barefoot doctor.  So this pedialyte is a wonderful help for them...

But again, IF you can get raw goat milk, its an excellent alternative.   As main food or as extra supplementing.   Forumites tells shops specialized in "Natural foods" use to carry it.  Several different chains are mentioned, so its not so hard to find as it seems.   Not all do personally knows a goat farmer!

Re deworming.  Pyrantel poamoate can be given to kittens of  2+ weeks, as its mild.  But I presume it shall be healthy kittens, not kittens in crisis...  Nemex2 is sold OTC and it even  tastes good.  Tells our American forumists.   (here in Sweden we use the similiar Banminth).

Re fleas.   Proceed with the combing, it should be good enough.  You can bathe them too with the dawn liquid soap (blue dawn if you have several to choose from).  Be sure there is no draught, the water warm, you dry off them thoroughly, and they do have a heat pad on afterwards.   Do not risk they get chilled out - its why bathing small kittens is dangerous and many handbooks forbid it.

Of course, be careful they dont get water in mouths nor nose, so in practice, you bathe the body, not head.

If so, before you submerge them,  make do a collar of  wet +dawn foam f on their neck,  the the fleas wont flee from the deluge up to the head...

Ah, the 8ml / OZ a day - which makes quite a lot totally as you saw earlier.   you will prob find it difficult to press everything in,   You will prob must contend with somewhat lower amount.  But this is the idea of amounts needed.

They shall gain minimum 6g a day,)0,2 oz) but we wont be happy before they gain 10 g a day.   Healthy kittens often gain more, even 20+ grams, but that is not our demand.

Good luck!

I think it was what comments I had for now, the rest had been said by the others.

How are the kittens doing this morning? @Gmoda?

Alright, I'm very depleted of energy right now. @StefanZ  the supplement we are giving to Red(the smallest kitten) is called Vetoquinol care Nutri-cal; its the nutritional supplement gel. @Handsome Kitty

4 of the kittens are doing okay. One of them isn't. I don't have the heart to take it. I'll update you when something happens. Please pray for him. I don't think my mom is going to be able to get powdered kmr today... so we have to stick with liquid despite the problems. Maybe we'll be able to get it, i don't know at this point. We're still feeding them and everything; occasionally bathing them but mainly combing them. 

When we found these kittens in the bush, I didn't know what we were in for. This summer hasn't been kind to us so far, but it gave us these babies; maybe we could take care of them and raise them. I can't help but feel like we're failing them. They need a professional foster parent there is no way they can stay with us and make it. They made it this far but I don't know how much longer without actual care because what we're doing just isn't enough. I'm not about to give up on them even if one of them doesn't make it, they need all the hope they can get.

I don't know what to do anymore. 

Don't get discouraged.  Even Red doesn't make it doesn't mean the others don't have a chance.  Giving the kittens more food will make a difference

I know your exhausted, feeding 5 kittens around the clock is very a time consuming and slow process.  As they get bigger, they will eat more less often.  Hang in there.  We're here if you have questions or just need to vent or talk.

We're going to try our best with the rest of them, as much as we can. Until we can find a place to take them, which hasn't been going well, we will have to care for them.

Gmoda said:

 
We're going to try our best with the rest of them, as much as we can. Until we can find a place to take them, which hasn't been going well, we will have to care for them.

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As they start to grow you may decided to keep working with them.  Have you offered to be the foster family at the rescues?  You would still be doing the work but would have help w/some expenses.

What is the issue with obtaining powder? Is it the expense? It is available at pet stores, the vet office and Walmart. You see that many orphans make a quick turn around with powder.

I know you are doing your best. Like Handsome Kitty said, ask to BE the foster and they may help you at the rescue.

I don't know how much they will grow. The only ones that seem to be growing are Green, Blue and Violet. We feed them yet they are just, stunted? I have no idea. When we first had these babies, Red was the strongest and biggest, but now he's the smallest; he is also having trouble suckling. Whitey is very weak now. I don't know where to go from here with them. We haven't offered to be the foster parents because in the next few weeks my mom is going to another country and I would be the only one with them. I couldn't possibly do that; hence why we're looking around. Someone with the time on their hands( and experience) to care for them. Even if we did... I just don't know.

Where are you located? Maybe we can help you find someone? Town, county, state.

sarthur2 said:

Where are you located? Maybe we can help you find someone? Town, county, state.

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They are in Orange County (CA I assume).  It looks like a large area and I wasn't sure which part they are in.  @Gmoda if you can narrow down the area near you I would be willing to help look.

Gmoda said:

 
Alright, I'm very depleted of energy right now. @StefanZ  the supplement we are giving to Red(the smallest kitten) is called Vetoquinol care Nutri-cal; its the nutritional supplement gel. @Handsome Kitty

4 of the kittens are doing okay. One of them isn't. I don't have the heart to take it. I'll update you when something happens. Please pray for him. I don't think my mom is going to be able to get powdered kmr today... so we have to stick with liquid despite the problems. Maybe we'll be able to get it, i don't know at this point. We're still feeding them and everything; occasionally bathing them but mainly combing them. 

When we found these kittens in the bush, I didn't know what we were in for. This summer hasn't been kind to us so far, but it gave us these babies; maybe we could take care of them and raise them. I can't help but feel like we're failing them. They need a professional foster parent there is no way they can stay with us and make it. They made it this far but I don't know how much longer without actual care because what we're doing just isn't enough. I'm not about to give up on them even if one of them doesn't make it, they need all the hope they can get.

I don't know what to do anymore. 

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Ah, the Nutri Cal.   Its a good vitamine supplement, often used.  It contains some syrups, so I suppose it works also as adding some extra sugar yes.

So continue with this, its good.  And if you need more power, get glucose sugar powder, or white caro syrup...

Get also goat milk, if you cant get this powdered KMR.   And no products of Hartz!

Re your feels of quilt.  Nay, you are doing OK.  May be true, a seasoned rescuer is the very best, but how many get THIS chance?   Most must be happy to do with what they get.    And God send them you, nobody else.

Remember, when Florence Nightinghale and her team of nurses come to this military hospital in Crimea, although many doctors opposed it, the death ratio sunk immediately from over 50% to about 2%.   Or it was perhaps even even bigger differance?

Lessons?  Surgery and doctors by all means, but what actually saved the majority of lives was competent health care.  Essentially providing the basics.

The barefoot nurses in the village sick bay, and her companion a trained midwife, saves more lives than the most top notch flaschy doctor, with all nice exams.

Do the basic and majority will survive.

I understand more than well you are tired, and despaired, but please, dont lose the faith in what you are doing...  You are doing great, and there is no else.  You can get some advices from here, but you yourself are there, doing what you do.

Also, dont be too sorry if you cant save them all.  Its splendid, a dream to save them all, but its seldom possible.  Even for a professionall rescuer.

After all this is why cats may get big litters.  Mother Nature knows it happens not everybody do survive....

Warm hugs, and Good luck!

@sarthur2  the issues with the powder are: they hadn't taken well to it before( but maybe they will if we try again), my mom is very busy because there are a lot of things going on in our lives right now so she can't get the powder, and expenses are an issue. My family needs to breathe. I don't hate the kittens, I will never hate them I love them all so so much, but they need to be somewhere else. The stress of our household is having an impact on our performances. We aren't a foster care, that's why they need one. I don't want to get rid of them, I want them to grow in a healthy environment with 24/7 care and love; I would love nothing more than to adopt them once they're healthy. 

I'm not saying this for the sake of argument, it's just the heat of the moment. I want them to live.