How long can FIV and FHV live outside of the body?

We've been told that these viruses can only last outside of the body anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours.  And up until now, that hasn't really been much of an issue for us, since our cat with FIV/FHV and our healthy cat live in different parts of the house.

Unfortunately, something has just come up, and we may need to temporarily move Buddy (our cat with FIV/FHV) into the master bedroom for part of the day for awhile.  So how long would we need to keep that room off limits to Oscar once Buddy can return to his usual living quarters?

I'm a little confused, because the title of the thread mentions FeLV? Does your Buddy have FeLV and FIV? Or he has FIV and hepes virus?

FHV is ubiquitous - 97% of cats have been exposed to it, so there's no reason to worry about FHV at all.

As to the FIV, I'm not sure why Buddy is separated - unless he also has FeLV? Most people with FIV cats don't separate them, as the virus cannot be passed casually. For disbelieving, misinformed vets, Dr. Litster (Purdue Univ, running Maddie's Fund) published a study with long-term follow up of shelter cats mixed, FIV+ and FIV- last year.

Here is the plain English version of the study: http://www.wivotersforcompanionanim...-can-live-harmoniously-with-fiv-negative-cats

Here is the summary page with links to video, presentations, etc. when the study results were released, but not yet published: http://www.maddiesfund.org/update-on-fiv.htm

Here is a link to the published report. We have to pay for it, your vet won't have to: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090023314000847

We can see the abstract for free. It clearly states

"These results show a lack of evidence of FIV transmission, despite years of exposure to naturally-infected, FIV-positive cats in a mixed household."

FIV requires deep tissue bite wounds for infection to take hold. Normal nipping and scratches in play just aren't enough to transfer it. Just make proper introductions!

But if you are committed to keeping them separate, if there is no FeLV, then you don't need to wait at all to let Oscar back in your bedroom after Buddy leaves.

I have 10 cats. One is FIV+. They all live together. Chumley (my FIV+ boy) has been with us for five years now. He and Billy are best buddies, and Chumley constantly grooms Bill, including his ears, LOL. We got Billy tested for FIV at his annual last year, and he remains negative. We won't be bothering to test for it any more.

LDG said:

I'm a little confused, because the title of the thread mentions FeLV? Does your Buddy have FeLV and FIV? Or he has FIV and hepes virus?

FHV is ubiquitous - 97% of cats have been exposed to it, so there's no reason to worry about FHV at all.

As to the FIV, I'm not sure why Buddy is separated - unless he also has FeLV? Most people with FIV cats don't separate them, as the virus cannot be passed casually. For disbelieving, misinformed vets, Dr. Litster (Purdue Univ, running Maddie's Fund) published a study with long-term follow up of shelter cats mixed, FIV+ and FIV- last year.

Click to expand...

Hmm.  Looks like someone else had a question about viruses about the same time I did. :-)

Thanks much for all of the info and the links!  And thanks bunches for sharing your purrsonal experiences, and the adorable picture!  That makes me feel a lot better. :-)

To answer your question, Buddy does not have FeLV.  He was first diagnosed as having FIV, and then FHV as well later on.

The first vet gave us two choices when we took this sick stray into our hearts and into our home.  We could either have Buddy euthanized right then and there, or we could always keep the two cats separated, wash ourselves down in bleach every time after we had any contact with Buddy so we wouldn't accidentally infect Oscar, as well as a bunch of other precautions.  Suffice it to say, the first recommendation wasn't even an option for us.  Grrrr!

Well, we eventually got fed up with the first vet, and our new vet (who's much younger) said all of the precautions we had been taking were an overkill and weren't really necessary.  And he didn't think we HAD to keep Buddy and Oscar separated -- in theory, anyway.  But even though Buddy has tamed down a lot over the past couple of years, the vet did understand our concern that Buddy might infect Oscar via a deep bite wound since he used to beat the crap out of the other cats in the neighborhood before we took him in (although he seems to think it's unlikely, and we're just being too overly cautious).

Also, to be perfectly honest, sometimes it's just easier for us to keep them separated, since Buddy has frequent upper respiratory infections and blows strings of snot all over the place, cold sores around his mouth from time to time and an occasional face rash, and FLUTD.  It's certainly less complicated to figure out which cat left which clumps in the litter boxes if only one of them has access to those particular boxes. ;-)

But now that we may need to temporarily kick Buddy out of his usual living quarters due to a family situation (at least for part of the day), we're just trying to figure out if we need to concentrate on any behavioral issues prior to any introductions and hope for the best, or work out a time-sharing arrangement where Buddy and Oscar can take turns using the same parts of the house if need be.  Maybe if we cross our fingers long enough, the family situation will fizzle out and we won't need to make any changes at all unless and until we're ready. ;-)

OK.

If you want to help Buddy's health, you might want to consider giving him lysine, lactoferrin and a thymus glandular supplement. I alternate months, but you could reduce it down to two weeks alternating, to help prevent those infections in the first place.

I use the Vetri-Lysine treats, because my cats do not like the lysine added to their food. It's salty. But plenty of cats just eat it. The dose most find helpful for maintenance, and the one that works for us is 250mg twice a day. That's two treats each, given AM and PM.

For the lactoferrin, the FIVtherapy site found in literature that the effective dose is 20mg per lb. So for an average sized cat, it's just easiest to use half of the very standard 250mg capsule, and that's what most of us in the Yahoo FIV-healthscience group do. That is also given 2x a day, just sprinkled on or mixed into food. Most of us use the Jarrow brand. It slows the progression of the disease, to stop those URIs to which FIV cats are prone, and many other benefits: http://www.fivtherapy.com/lactoferrin.htm

Most of the URIs are related to the herpes virus anyway, and there is a recent study out showing that the two together (lysine and lactoferrin) provide a much bigger "punch" when used together, for those stubborn infections: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/267703/stubborn-herpes-infection-add-lactoferrin-in-addition-to-lysine

In fact, it is so effective together, if that doesn't clear up the problem / help prevent it, I'd suggest getting a UR panel run to make sure the problem isn't mycoplasma, which needs antibiotics to treat.

So I give those two together for a month. Then I give the thymus glandular on the alternating months. I use this once a day, the entire month, every-other-month. I can't afford the thymus peptides discussed in the FIVtherapy site, but here's the benefit. You have to scroll down to the Thymus peptides. http://www.fivtherapy.com/bdmeds.htm#Immunomodulators

As to the FLUTD, is it due to crystals? Is it sterile cystitis? (Inflamed bladder wall, no crystals or infection?) Is it chronic infection? I ask, because there are easy, natural methods of helping prevent flares, depending on the problem. I have boys that blocked due to struvites, one that required surgery due to a calcium oxalate stone embedded in his bladder wall, and a female with IC that we could label her having issues with chronic infections. Both are backed up by research, and even my non-holistic vet was familiar with them. Of course, an all wet food diet that is high protein, low carb, really helps any cat with bladder issues. I feed the ferals Friskies pate to avoid problems, and I buy Fancy Feast classics when on sale. These fit the bill well. (My indoor pets, including my FIV+ boy and former FLUTD cats, I feed raw).

But let me know if you want more information on using either D-mannose or corn silk tea. I can post the studies if you or your vet is interested.

LDG said:

So I give those two together for a month. Then I give the thymus glandular on the alternating months. I use this once a day, the entire month, every-other-month. I can't afford the thymus peptides discussed in the FIVtherapy site, but here's the benefit. You have to scroll down to the Thymus peptides.

http://www.fivtherapy.com/bdmeds.htm#Immunomodulators

As to the FLUTD, is it due to crystals? Is it sterile cystitis? (Inflamed bladder wall, no crystals or infection?) Is it chronic infection? I ask, because there are easy, natural methods of helping prevent flares, depending on the problem. I have boys that blocked due to struvites, one that required surgery due to a calcium oxalate stone embedded in his bladder wall, and a female with IC that we could label her having issues with chronic infections. Both are backed up by research, and even my non-holistic vet was familiar with them. Of course, an all wet food diet that is high protein, low carb, really helps any cat with bladder issues. I feed the ferals Friskies pate to avoid problems, and I buy Fancy Feast classics when on sale. These fit the bill well.

(My indoor pets, including my FIV+ boy and former FLUTD cats, I feed raw).

Click to expand...

We already have the L-Lysine and lactoferrin covered.  In fact, we learned about the lactoferrin on this site.

Unfortunately, the two of them together didn't help as much as we had hoped.  The vet said Buddy has a lot of scarring that's narrowed his upper respiratory tract a bit (probably from chronic infections that went untreated when he was a stray), which predisposes him to more infections.  Plus, he also suffers from chronic hay fever, and the inflammation just makes things even worse.  So for now, we're just trying to keep his immune system as tanked up as possible, and keep the inflammation down.

I'm not familiar with the thymus glandular supplement you mentioned, and will definitely look into that!  Thanks oodles for the link. :-)

Re: the urinary tract issues...

Buddy apparently has sterile cystitis, and stress seems to be a pretty big contributing factor -- especially thunderstorms!  But maybe the Feliway products and Zylkene are helping, since we've had a LOT of thunderstorms lately, and he hasn't had a relapse yet, thank God!  And maybe the all wet, high protein/low carb diet is finally starting to help as well.  I'm still reading and re-reading Dr. Pierson's website and some of the home cooked cat food threads on this site, and maybe one of these days I'll be able to work up the nerve to give it a try.

Thanks for all your help!  It's greatly appreciated. :-)

Guess I better go herd some of those dust bunnies in the bedroom now that I know some kind of time-sharing arrangement is an option for Buddy and Oscar.  Yee-haw! ;-)