Hi

I am relatively new to rescue but have saved a lot of sick kitties based on the knowledge I get online as well as learned from fellow - rescuers.

But this one I have a definite problem with:

As any start up rescue I am short on funds.

Also I have seen ENOUGH at our pound to understand that vaccination with FVRCP is CRUCIAL and should be administered to kittens as young as 4 weeks in high-risk environments like shelters and consequently the rescues and fosters working with big overcrowded shelters.

Benefit BY FAR outweighs the risks.

The same IMO should be applied to anti-protozoan meds like Ponazuril that might save a kittens life - meanwhile Albon will take long time and a kitten dies...
I blame myself for skipping it once and losing a kitten to COCCIDIA...

Regardless - this is not my question - it is rather my approach towards rescuing and vetting stray kittens on a limited budget. Better use meds earlier than wait until the "approved" age and lose lives.

I made a decision to give a very frail kitten a minute dose of Revolution because fleas will inflict more harm on her than the medicine.

My point about the vaccines: I purchased a highly rated HESKA 3 way FVRCP Intranasal vaccine that on calvetsuppky.com is sold as safe to use on kittens 4 weeks and older.
I was quite happy about the idea of protecting my fosters early since I frequently visit the shelter and although do not bring in other cats in - there is always a risk of bringing something on my clothes, shoes, my phone etc., I try but I know I will most likely skip something one day and get them sick with URI or worse.

Everywhere I read the reviews for this stuff state that it is EASY TO USE.

Can someone explain to me how exactly is it safer or easier to put 2 ml volume of liquid in tiny nostrils of a 4 week old kitten and NOT SPILL IT because somewhere it said kittens licking the spilled vaccine off of their coat will get SICK with the diseases you are trying to protect them from?...

I can hardly imagine how 2 ml of liquid can be administered without spilling and have 40 vaccines sitting in my house in what my husband calls "fridge full of panleuk" which is sort of true, since it's a modified live virus....

I am so confused because I definitely don't want to discard them and I would love to vaccinate them as early as 4-5 weeks depending on a situation but have no idea how to administer that vaccine without getting them sick...

Warning on the label to burn the containers after use doesn't help ease my mind.

What am I not getting here?...

Please advise - if anybody used this on kittens and what precautions should be taken?...

Thank you!

Hope to receive feedback soon since it has been bothering me for quite a long time and now I got new fosters , so I am considering using HESKA but need guidance.

The only thing I can suggest is calling the 800 number on the packaging.  Surely there is one, isn't there?  I would have thought it would have been in a spray form, if it's intranasal, but what do I know?  

Otherwise, if no number on the package, and no one here knows, possibly CALL around to diferent Vet's offices or shelters and ask?   Maybe they've used that one or a similar one.

Do you have a vet you work with? You could call and ask if they've ever used the product and if so, how is it administered?

If you find that you can't use the product, can you return it and get your money back?

are you sure it's 2 ml and not 0.2 ml ?

detmut said:

are you sure it's 2 ml and not 0.2 ml ?

Click to expand...

Yes, it seems its 0,2 ml

I googled, and the first hit was

http://www.drugs.com/vet/heska-feline-ultranasal-fvrcp-vaccine.html -  I saw there were others.

So both dosage 0,2 mentioned, and some administering advices.

Even if the site hinted the info was obsolete my now...

 

Omg.... I'm an idiot!!!!:lol3:

But happy to have it figured out so easy!

Wow.... Thank you for pointing this out to me - I still would like some feedback from people who actually used it and why would it say "burn container after use" but this is huge relief!

The size of a dropper looks like 2 ml - That's why I probably assumed that but jeez.... Lmao....

....and the 0.2 ml is to be DIVIDED between the two nostrils, so basically 0.1 ml in each nostril.    I just tip their heads back gently and drip the teeny drop in as they are intaking a breath. 

Hi Red Top!

Thank you for advice. I will try the scary vaccine tomorrow on 4 kittens about 8 weeks old.

But I wonder if it is safe to use it on the new fosters (the 4 I'm talking about ) while I have a frail little kitty of 6 weeks, who is still skin and bones.

Is it at all possible that the new kitties would start sneezing left and right which would result in the little one catching the virus from the environment?...
And should I vaccinate her too?.. I definitely would have waited on this kitten since she is so so thin and malnourished but ... Not vaccinating her might be worse?..

Basically my husband scared the living crap out of me with this and continues to do so, so once I make up my mind he always comes up with another reason why I should NOT use my "panleuk storage" and I end up more confused.

The information online is so highly contradictory that it's pretty hard to make any conclusions: but one thing bothers me the most. Why - provided that this product is so safe - are they asking to burn the bottles after use?.... Does it say the same on all vaccines?..

Afraid to make a fatal mistake and put my little current foster at risk. I'm pretty sure the 8 week olds full of life and much stronger will be fine but little Alice?.. Am I putting her at risk although they are not going to be nowhere close to each other...

What are the chances they will come down with any symptoms at all?...

I have used a different brand of the intranasal vaccine and I liked it very much.  I am not caring for kittens this year, and last year it was not available (they had production problems, according to the company rep I talked with).  I liked that brand because it came in two bottles, the panleuk vaccine in one as a liquid and the upper respiratory vaccines as a dry in a separate bottle.  That way I was able to vaccinate the tiny kittens with ONLY the panleuk vaccine at first and then LATER add the upper respiratory vaccines by using a sterile diluent.  Panleuk is fatal once it gets into kittens unless they have some immunity from their mama cats, and the vaccine is not deemed 100% effective until after the second dose, so I liked starting young.  I have no "control" group of unvaccinated kittens but must say I had NO cases of panleuk when I was using this method.

If I remember correctly, the panleuk vaccine was a KILLED VIRUS and the respiratory viruses were MODIFIED LIVE vaccine in the one I used.  It is not recommended to use modified live virus on very young or debilitated animals.  The HESKA vaccine states it is a modified live vaccine, but I note it comes in two vials -- whether one is the panleuk killed vaccine and the other the modified live respiratory vaccine, or if in fact one vial is just sterile diluent and the other a combination modified live vaccine I do not know.

As for the sneezing, yes, we did have some of that, which usually showed up 5 to 7 days after the vaccine.  They were not ill and kept eating and playing but they just sneezed a lot for maybe a week.  I do remember postponing the spay appointment for one of the kittens because although she wasn't sick, and it was two weeks after the vaccine, I was sure they would not welcome a sneezing kitten onto the spay van, so I postponed her for a week and the sneezing was gone by then.

If it were me, I would not give any vaccine/nasal vaccine or anything else like that for two reasons, one is that unless a Vet does it, it is not considered done and if you were to board them or have them spayed/neutered the Vet clinic may or may not accept it. Every clinic I have went to will not recognize home given vaccines.They will repeat the vaccination again. Also there is a schedule that vaccines are to be given on. Secondly, if the cat was to have an adverse reaction, how would you go about that, telling the vet you did at home vaccines? I am on a tight kitty budget myself, with 25 colony cats and 6 of my own. I also would like to advise strongly against giving any revolution to kittens that young as revolution is not like advantage, revolution is aborbed not only into the skin but into the bloodstream. Personally, I use advantage on all but one as one cat had a nasty reaction, even to that. I wait until the kittens are 15 weeks old at least. I bathe them if they have fleas and handpick them off. I also do couponing to help with costs. I am all for saving money but there comes a point when some things are not to be done at home, for me, vaccines are one of those.

Another thing, I know you are using the nasal vaccine but I would recommend you have the injection given at a Vet clinic, my clinic does it for $15 FVRCP and $15 for Rabies. That way they are on paper and you have proof that the vaccines have been given. I would strongly suggest no matter who does the injection, do not inject it or have it injected anywhere else other than the tail or lower hind leg, as the reason for this, with all vaccines carry a risk sarcomas which are rare but nasty cancers that rarely develop but if they do they can easily be contained by amputating said limb. Vaccines save lives, no doubt about that but there are certain risks and precations to take.

I want to put out there the reason for "Burning" vials and unused vaccines. The majority of virus can only be killed by bleach and/or incineration.. Incineration of Panluek is necessary, as it takes a temperature of 245 degrees to actually kill this particular virus.  And incineration/Burning will verify that it gets to this degree, also is the best way of disposal of vaccine vials, needles, syringes, cotton swabs, and anything used in the vaccination or decontamination process.- If you do not have access to an incinerator, a burn barrel or burn pit will also work.  Your other options are to take the disposal to a medical waste facility, some veterinarians may offer this, possibly for a fee.  I live in the country, much easier to just burn in my fire pit. If you need further instruction, please refer to any medical waste disposal directions.  I know, I personally have purchased a Steam Vapor Cleaner (Steam cleaning machine), because I cannot bleach my hardwood floors, furniture, etc.  If you go this route, PLEASE check out the steam vapor cleaner you purchase, as 99% of them out there do NOT reach 245 degrees at the nozzle, and will advertise the temperature at boiler is X degree, but fail to mention that by the time it is at the tip of wand is it like 198 degrees, not suitable for killing any virus.. So most steam cleaners out there are a gimmick.. Mine, for home use was listed at $899., which is the most inexpensive I have found.  And Please note that most of the products on the market, like store brands- NEVER get to the temperature necessary to kill anything.  So, long story short, my pricey purchase, is for the safety of my herd, and is MUCH less expensive than emergency care, or loss of life due to me bringing a hitch-hiking virus home.  I also use the Ultranasal FVRCP vaccine.  It is fantastic.  It is much easier to administer, and will vaccinate your kitty in 2-3 days, compared to the injectable vaccine which can take up to 5-7 days to take effect.  Plus, with all the controversy on injection site sarcoma, I am happy that there is another option for at least one of these vaccines, and the added plus is it is much easier to administer.  And this particular vaccine method can be used on younger kittens than the injection.  Although, you will have to administer again, if you vaccinate too young, as a booster. 

On the topic of your vet or a clinic not allowing you to vaccinate your kitties, Many will allow you show a vial or pic of vial- especially if you are vaccinating a colony, and if you are doing this- many of these kitties may not see a vet for all these other situations you would have, in comparison to a house cat.  Not to mention, hard to tell when you will have a new addition to a colony, and in my area- the ONLY time you can go to a clinic for shots is at the time of TNR, or during a Shot Clinic- which may only happen a couple times a year.  Otherwise, my only other option would be to go to my vet, which is a $45 first time visit, and evaluation fee, and then whatever else he decides this kitty needs- which would also include Rabies shot- which would be more expensive than a clinic fee.  So, for me anyway- my only other option is is to vaccinate what I can till time of spay/neuter, and with kittens if not in the best health, I get them up to health, then get the TNR or spay/neuter done with their shots (Rabies/Distemper)- but if neccessary to hang onto them for a while prior to this, I definitely vaccinate w/ this- as Panleuk is NOT visible like FIV or FeLV, in most cases it is unknown that the kitty even has it, until it is too late.. Once the symptoms show- it is usually 24-48hrs for fatality- as the white blood cell count is almost depleted by this point.  One of the ONLY ways I  know have worked to detect Panleuk virus is present, prior to that last day or two- is the K-9 Parvo test- which will show if Panleuk is present. The other option is blood work- which can be a bit more pricey.   And if you are dealing with colony cats or strays- you may not see them enough to know that any kind of virus is present, and by the time they are lethargic, if they have any kind of illness, or medical complication/immunodeficiency - they may not survive, unless you have the option of getting this kitty to a vet for care.   So, all that being said- when it appears that a Colony or strays appear to have been poisoned, because they "looked" fine a couple days ago- you definitely want to check out if Panleuk is present in this colony.  Have had it happen in our area very recently, reports to animal control about at least 2 colonies being wiped out, pretty much in about a week- and the outcome was Panleuk... So, in our area, this is NOT a normal occurrence for panleuk, but now that the communities in our area know it is present, everyone is on the watch.  Turns out an individual paid for "Pest Control" in a trailer park may have been taking the cats/kittens and relocating them, as he has done in the past.. In this unfortunate event- he very possibly just passed this Panleuk on to multiple colonies.. The Panleuk in this particular trailer park has been confirmed by a veterinarian, per a resident coming to them about many cats passing due to what was thought was poisoning..  So lesson learned by many- for safety of the herd, it maybe easier to just vaccinate- than have the possibility of loosing many colonies.  And if you suspect "Poisoning"- of a colony- definitely get it checked out, could be worse and contagious.  In the couple counties I am involved with, we are now trying to investigate this matter further, as Panluek had not been a problem for many many years in our area, and this person has been hired by many trailer parks in a 3 county radius, to work on their stray cat population.  It is unfortunate, that many of these particular areas are very low income, and cannot afford to care for this many colony cats, or do the clean up, after an outbreak.. As for colonies that have had this- it is preferred to bleach the ground, cover w/ new dirt or soil and not introduce any NEW cats to this area for at last 4 hot months, or up to 6-8 months if during the colder months.