Worried and at a Loss with My Kitten's Symptoms

dolphin005

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Hi All,

This will be long. Sorry in advance and thank you to anyone who reads it in its entirety!!

I am really hoping someone has either been through this or knows someone who has. My kitten is now 6 months old and no matter what I do, these symptoms are not going away. I am not happy with my vet because at first he dismissed me and her symptoms. It wasn't until she unleashed a long, smelly fart on him before her spay that he finally took me seriously. I don't like him also because after one of the tests to try and figure this out, he told me she had FIP. I knew nothing about FIP at the time and after initial research I was in tears the whole night thinking I was going to lose my 5 month old. Anyway, I have since learned that FIP is not only rare, but has to be diagnosed with a biopsy. Besides, her symptoms don't match it at all. What she tested positive for was Feline CoronaVirus (the jerk!) Which I know is common.

I feed wet only and will not touch dry. Not grocery store stuff either! I have tried 6 different foods with three different brands and three different proteins total. Now on Natural Balance duck and green pea, so even a novel protein isn't making a difference. I have tried pure pumpkin as well as probiotics. 

Anyway, she was originally born into a hoarder house, so she must have had to fight for food because we used to have issues with her eating way too fast. I thought these issues were from that, but they aren't. I even started feeding her 6 times a day. It's down to 4 times a day now and she eats much slower, so she feels better about food. However, symptoms are still there.

They are (and will be followed by what tests have been done):

-Diagnosed with gingivitis (at 5 months old)

-Her breath has been horrible no matter what food she was on

-She bites and gnaws a lot, but not hard. I don't encourage it at all

-Constant black stuff accumulating in her ears and not mites

-Stomach makes noises (gas)

-she farts

-This weird spitting up thing, but it is not vomiting. It's almost like a sneeze or something, but smells like food

-She burps/gags once after every meal. Sometimes it sounds wet, like a bit coming up or reflux or something

-She drinks a lot of water and subsequently pees a lot (She may just like water because she plays with it and likes being wet)

-I noticed she gagged after a freeze dried pure bite treat, but maybe she didn't chew it because it was bigger. I have given them to her before and she did not gag. However, she has also gagged after metronidazole (medication) a couple of times. That stuff is awful though

-She didn't heal properly after her spay and the poor girl had to wear the cone for three weeks. Not sure if that was his mistake, or part of all this, but I think part of all this. 

We tested parasites and giardia twice, so common and uncommon parasites, tested liver, kidneys, blood sugar, and bile acids, tested FIV and FeLV. All negative. We did a full diarrhea panel and Feline Corona Virus and Clostridium Perfringens was discovered. So, now she has been on Amoxicillin and Metronidazole for almost two weeks for the bad bacteria infection. Also have her back on probiotics while on meds. She finishes her meds in a day and half and she isn't better. Only thing that is better is her breath and gingivitis is getting better.  The rest of the symptoms are still there.

I have spent so much money on this had no real answers. I was unemployed for most of these tests too. Now I have to pay my credit card down. Sometimes I feel like Iw as taken for a ride. The Internal Medicine Specialist at the lab they use also suggested digestive enzymes. I haven't tried those yet because  I wanted to see if the meds cleared it up.

I might try and holistic vet and I have debated a raw diet, but at this point I am so scared of making her worse. I would never do the raw diet myself and would likely buy from the pet food store. I don't trust myself preparing it.

Has anyone seen, heard or, or read anything like her story?

Thanks!
 

the3rdname

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The NB Duck & Pea has fish oil in it, and some kitties are allergic to fish.  I have accidentally given similar food to my IBD cat, overlooking the fish oil that is sometimes at the bottom of the ingredients list, with disastrous consequences.  If you haven't tried Nature's Variety Instinct, that's the number one canned go-to for cats with suspected food allergies.  But if you're willing to try raw, by all means, that's probably the best option.  Independently owned pet stores that carry "holistic" foods are generally more than happy to order anything you'd like to try.  Primal has a few novel proteins in their frozen range.  

The "black stuff" in the ears could be yeast or bacteria- it needs cultured.

If the FIV/FeLV tests were performed before her six month birthday, I would retest.  It can take several months for the viruses to show up in their system.  Confirm a positive FeLV with an IFA test.  
 Sometimes I feel like I was taken for a ride.
Cats can't tell us where it hurts, what they feel like, etc., and so it can take numerous tests and seeing different vets and/or specialists to get a definitive diagnosis.  Unfortunately, so many illnesses share symptoms and can mimic each other, making diagnosis tricky to say the least.  If I were you, my next step would be a gastroenterologist.  

And if you aren't happy with your vet, definitely find someone else.  This is a good place to start: https://www.aaha.org/pet_owner/about_aaha/hospital_search/default.aspx     If you plug the name of a hospital into google, you'll find multiple sites with reviews. 

Best wishes and keep us updated!
 
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dolphin005

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Thanks for the reply - The testing was right when she turned 6 months. 

As far as food, I have tried both Wellness Kitten brands, regular Wellness, Merrick and a couple different NB's.

I looked at Nature's Variety and the other 95% meat wet foods, but they said for kittens they need 2 cans a day and she is still a kitten. She weighs 6lbs now, but under a year old, so she is a kitten. Any ideas on that? As it is right now, she eats a whole can of wet a day

Thanks for the site! I'm definitely not going back to him. Just for the fact that he dismissed me with her symptoms and that he told me she had FIP! You don't do that to someone when it isn't a fact! That's crap!
 

mrsgreenjeens

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So even with the clostridium perf she is NOT having diarrhea???????  That is quite unusual.  Did they also test for T-foetus?  That sometimes is an issue,and it takes a special PCR test to diagnose it, plus takes a certain medication to erradicate it. 

-Diagnosed with gingivitis (at 5 months old)  Wow...if she's from a hoarding situation, possibly she's inbred, so bad genes?

-Her breath has been horrible no matter what food she was on  Probably from the Gingivitis

-She bites and gnaws a lot, but not hard. I don't encourage it at all  also may be from the gingivitis (her gums hurt) , AND because she's a kitten

-Constant black stuff accumulating in her ears and not mites  sounds like classic yeast infection - has she been treated for this???  

-Stomach makes noises (gas)  Clostridium is probably part of the issue here

-she farts                                                                  "

-This weird spitting up thing, but it is not vomiting. It's almost like a sneeze or something, but smells like food

-She burps/gags once after every meal. Sometimes it sounds wet, like a bit coming up or reflux or something  She may have something like acid reflux.  Have you tried raising her dish?  You might go back to smaller, more frequent meals too.  But raising her dish might help.

-She drinks a lot of water and subsequently pees a lot (She may just like water because she plays with it and likes being wet)  IMHO, she can't drink too much.  I've seen too many cats with kidney disease from not drinking enough )

-I noticed she gagged after a freeze dried pure bite treat, but maybe she didn't chew it because it was bigger. I have given them to her before and she did not gag. However, she has also gagged after metronidazole (medication) a couple of times. That stuff is awful though 

-She didn't heal properly after her spay and the poor girl had to wear the cone for three weeks. Not sure if that was his mistake, or part of all this, but I think part of all this. 

You said she's currently on a probiotic...is is Nexabiotic?  I've read that is particularly good for clostridium.  Or is it S. Boulardi?  (even better).  I give my cats probiotics daily, just because I don't want they to ever have issues.  I know you said you'd tried them before and they didn't do any good, but once you get her healthy, you might think about just keeping her on them.  But remember, when giving antibiotics, best not to give them at the same time of day as the probiotics.  They should be given a couple of hours apart.     I also DO use digestive enzymes, particularly for my elderly cat who has health issues.  I need her to absorb every nutrient in her food and need her to gain weight, so I add them to all her food. 

Are you doing something to help with the gingivitis?  You said her breath is getting better....are you now brushing her teeth, or what?  

She is certainly lucky to have you fighting for her!  You must love her very much
And I'm guessing the feeling is mutual
 

the3rdname

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Thanks for the reply - The testing was right when she turned 6 months. 

As far as food, I have tried both Wellness Kitten brands, regular Wellness, Merrick and a couple different NB's.

I looked at Nature's Variety and the other 95% meat wet foods, but they said for kittens they need 2 cans a day and she is still a kitten. She weighs 6lbs now, but under a year old, so she is a kitten. Any ideas on that? As it is right now, she eats a whole can of wet a day

Thanks for the site! I'm definitely not going back to him. Just for the fact that he dismissed me with her symptoms and that he told me she had FIP! You don't do that to someone when it isn't a fact! That's crap!
Ah, I see now.  So she hasn't yet been on a novel protein absent any common proteins (fish) at all.  That's something to think about.  

I've always given kittens however much food they desire.  Two cans sounds like a lot to me, but if she can get it down, more power to her.

As for the vet: been there, done that!  When my IBD kitty was in crisis and needed emergency surgery, one of the vets kept bringing up lymphoma and went into detail about her (deceased) cat's battle with intestinal lymphoma.  I swear she was trying to turn the discussion into some sort of feline lymphoma support group meeting (!)  When Phoebe finally got her IBD diagnosis, I was royally hacked off about that entire discussion.  I agree, you don't do that to people!  
But remember, when giving antibiotics, best not to give them at the same time of day as the probiotics.  They should be given a couple of hours apart.
Well, I learned something new today!  Good info.
 
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dolphin005

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She only had diarrhea when she was on pumpkin and when she was on the other probiotic I tried before the diagnosis. And even then, she was only going once a day and it was more soft than a runny diarrhea - See? Weird!  Also, I am well-aware to give the antibiotic and probiotic a minimum for 2 hours apart. Right now it is 4 hours apart. She is on Fortiflora. I am in Canada and haven't heard of the ones you mentioned. Either way,they aren't  helping her symptoms and they didn't before the diagnosis.

Her gums are getting better even with me not brushing them much. Between the cone for three weeks and the medication, I just wanted to give her a break. She does still bite quite a bit. Her gums are looking better anyway. I am just getting back to brushing them. A vet friend (who I can't take her to, but have in my hip pocket to bounce things off of) also said some kittens get gingivitis through the teething process. All her adult teeth are in now.

She has not been treated or even tested for a yeast infection (as far as I know) I do have the tests that the diarrhea panel included.)

I did raise her dish for a couple of months so it was at her level. At that same time, she was getting a can a day split into 6 servings/day. It did absolutely nothing to reduce her symptoms.

Reflux is a possibility and acid reducers were suggested - However, I know how bad those things mess you up! There also has to be a root cause - Something is causing it if it is reflux.

As far as water - She doesn't touch dry food and drinks more water than any cat I have ever seen on a dry food diet. Cat's aren't water drinkers by nature and it's odd for her to drink so much when she is on an all wet diet.. It may be unrelated to all of this - It's just the fact that all this other stuff is going on that I bring it up and it worries me. I also get that she might just like water a lot. Like I said, she does play in it lol.

2 cans a day of that brand is very expensive! That was part of the problem. When she is no longer a kitten, then I could try that perhaps - If I haven't gone raw by then.

I can't believe the vet did that to you! Making it about her! I already have trust issues with finding a vet because I recently lost one because the vet I had didn't realize she was in kidney failure from Meloxicam. That was back in November. I am still grieving her. It took two months, but I got a kitten and wasn't expecting issues.  Oddly, she liked the vet originally and let him do anything to her. Then that all changed when I went to get her meds. She obviously sensed my anger and tension with him because she wanted nothing to do with him. 

I absolutely love her and am very protective. Luna loves me and definitely chose me. When I adopted her, she was in a foster home away from the hoarder house. My friend and I drove a good distance to get her. I picked her up and the entire time she would not let me put her down. When her foster mom tried to hold her for a minute so that I could sign the papers, she was fighting to come back to me. She's still very much a momma's girl and loves to be held. In my arms is her favorite spot.

I just want to figure out the root cause of these issues and get her fixed. She has one dose left on the meds and nothing has changed. Maybe in the coming week, but I am losing hope.
 

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When you raised her dish and were feeding her 6 meals per day, was that when she was still eating really fast?  Did you have her dish pretty high?  I'm thinking this might ONLY help with the burping after every meal...nothing else.  I would raise her dish as high as I could...to where she doesn't need to bend her neck down at all.  You might need to find a box and cut a hole in it to hold her bowl.  This is what I did for one of my cats.  I got a box that was at least 6 inches high, maybe more (adult cat
), and large enough to cut out about a 4 inch round hole so his bowl would fit nice in the top and not fall thru.  Then I had to slide a book inside the box so it was heavy enough to withstand a cat licking at the bowl.  (I did all that before I went to the expense of buying a raised holder...wanted to see if it would work)

Wonder WHY your Vet hasn't ever tackled the black gunk in Luna's ears?  As I said, that sounds like classic yeast infection to me, since you said you know it isn't mites. 

As to the fact that she doesn't have diarrhea, since you have the PCR test results, what EXACTLY does it say about the clostridium perfringens?  I just read something that says it's present in all cats, and it only becomes a problem when it turns into clostridium perfringens enterotoxin.  BUT, at that point she should be having diarrhea....so I just don't know what to think, and I also don't know if what I'm reading is accurate or not because it's on a blog
  But I also read that in DOGS, there is no need to treat it if there is no diarrhea present.  That was here:  http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?A=2239

OK, so you're going to find a new Vet right?  I would definitely discuss her ears and that should be an easy fix.  Then I would show them the PCR test results and see what they say.  I would also look at her food, and try a novel protein, or something that doesn't have fish oil to see if that may be causing the problem.   But even before that, I would check into a DECENT probiotic.  FortiFlora is a single strain probiotic...I use it only as a topper to get my old girl to eat when she's being picky.  I never even think of it as a probiotic.  Nexabiotic is a WONDERFUL probiotic, and one that is used by lots of people who feed raw, simply because it does have a strain in it that is very good for clostridium perfringens if it gets "out of whack" so to speak.  Here's a thread on it:  http://www.thecatsite.com/t/275137/nexabiotic.  And if you're interested in digestive enzymes, Prozyme is the one of choice, I believe.  It's what I use.  Here's a review on it:  http://www.thecatsite.com/products/trophy-prozyme-plus-powder-pet-supplement  One bottle should last a very long time, as you only need a pinch per meal.   Both of these can be purchased on Amazon.  You can use that in Canada, right? 

Otherwise, I'm at a loss.  You said you've got access to a Vet friend.  What do they say? 
 

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I like your idea of going to a holistic vet.

Changing foods will produce some really bad smelling poop and gas.

Did any vets check the gums for possible Stomatitis or  dental infections. 

One of my feral cats showed these Symptoms of Stomatitis

Red gums, hacking, kinda coughing, seeming like she's going to throw up but doesn't, some cats can have swollen lymph nodes, (gently feel under throat, in belly and thighs of cat) heavy breathing. 
 
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dolphin005

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If he checked for Stomatitis he didn't mention, but it doesn't seem to match and her gums are getting better. I think they are the least of my worries right now since they are getting better, but did seem to fit in the whole picture.

When I raised her dish she was not eating fast because at that point I would spread her food around a large plate, so it forced her to slow down. Ultimately, I think that is what has slowed her down overall. That and she feels more secure that food will be available to her and she is not in the house she was born into. No fighting for food here. I can try raising it again. Need to find something high enough for her since she is 6 months and still growing.

The vet hasn't tackled the gunk because he is an idiot who kept dismissing me! LOL! I was trying to see if a yeast infection could cause all these other symptoms too, but no luck, I am seriously debating trying Nature's Variety Instinct can and then maybe raw. Yeah it will be expensive because she needs two cans, but it will only be for 5ish months and then she will be able to go to about a can a day.  I am noticing too much itching with the Natural Balance. Itching has been there all along, but worse with NB, so it's just all part of it.

The test was a Feline Diarrhea Panel Comprehensive. It says Positive for "Feline Coronavirus Realpcr (BD) - whatever the last part means - And positive for C. Perfringens Enterotoxin A Realpcr (DP). So two weeks of meds and other than teeth/breath, she is not much better. She just finished them yesterday. However, that weird sneezy/spitty thing has only happened once or twice in the last two weeks. 

As far as cat probiotics, I never know what to trust. I had tried NovAnimal and that was supposed to be good, but no changes in Luna other than her stools were soft and she pooped twice a day on it. I will look into the one you suggest, but I am so leery on everything now after everything I have been through with her. Yes, I have access to Amazon :)

Oh, I am definitely looking for another vet, but trust is going to be a huge issue. There is no way in hell she is going back to him. I might see if a vet will let me pre-interview them in a way. I will tell the person her symptoms and tests she has had, and they don't have to diagnose, but I think I want to know if they have seen this before and if they can help or if it is beyond them. 
 

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Between the itching, yeasty ears and poor digestion, this really sounds like a food allergy to me. I know a true limited ingredient diet is expensive but it can be worth it if it solves the problem.
 
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dolphin005

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Between the itching, yeasty ears and poor digestion, this really sounds like a food allergy to me. I know a true limited ingredient diet is expensive but it can be worth it if it solves the problem.
So basically the Natural Balance LID is not a true LID? Also, I am really on the fence about "transitioning" when changing brands of food. The more research I did, the more it seems to be a myth, especially if your cat is having issues. Look how long the myth about not rotating foods/proteins lasted.  Any thoughts about transitioning? A big part of me wants to start her on the Nature's Variety tomorrow
 

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I totally understand. When I first took Prince John in, the first Vet put him on an antibiotic and prednisone.

She didn't diagnose his mouth issues.

My friend sujested that his swollen lymph nodes could be from his teeth.

After googling all his symptoms,I took him to a Holistic vet, asked him to check his gums, the new Vet detected it right away.

His dental surgury is next week.

I revently put Prince John on Whole Paws cat food, I buy it at
Wholefoods.

It's working good for him, I do want to mention changing there food will cause diarrhea.

I have him on pedialyte and probiotics which is what every vet has told me to do, probiotics are to stop the diarrhea and pedialyte is so they don't end up dehydrated.
 
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mrsgreenjeens

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Between the itching, yeasty ears and poor digestion, this really sounds like a food allergy to me. I know a true limited ingredient diet is expensive but it can be worth it if it solves the problem.
So basically the Natural Balance LID is not a true LID? Also, I am really on the fence about "transitioning" when changing brands of food. The more research I did, the more it seems to be a myth, especially if your cat is having issues. Look how long the myth about not rotating foods/proteins lasted.  Any thoughts about transitioning? A big part of me wants to start her on the Nature's Variety tomorrow
Not  sure I understand what you are asking about on the "transitioning" when changing brands
.  I give my cats different brands/ different type of proteins several times a day, WITH a good probiotic.  But my cats don't have digestive issues like yours seems to have. 

As far as Natural Balance LID being a limited food, it does contain salmon oil, and some cats have issues with fish oil.  Honestly, I just fed all of my cats some freeze dried salmon as a special treat, and one of my guys went kind of "nuts"
  Not in a good way.  He started licking himself all over, his back started twitching, he was getting agitated, etc.  No more of that treat for him.  So, back to the foods.  The Nature's Variety doesn't have any fish oils...they use flaxseed oil .   And they have some different proteins that Natural Balance doesn't have, like Rabbit, Pork, Lamb Turkey.  (some cats are actually allergic to chicken) 

Oh yes, she may not need quite 2 cans per day, AND, if she does well on it, you can probably find it via the internet for a better price than you can get it locally.  If you buy a couple of cases at a time, then free shipping
 

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@dolphin005

"They are (and will be followed by what tests have been done):

-Diagnosed with gingivitis (at 5 months old)

-Her breath has been horrible no matter what food she was on

-She bites and gnaws a lot, but not hard. I don't encourage it at all

-Constant black stuff accumulating in her ears and not mites

-Stomach makes noises (gas)

-she farts

-This weird spitting up thing, but it is not vomiting. It's almost like a sneeze or something, but smells like food

-She burps/gags once after every meal. Sometimes it sounds wet, like a bit coming up or reflux or something

-She drinks a lot of water and subsequently pees a lot (She may just like water because she plays with it and likes being wet)

-I noticed she gagged after a freeze dried pure bite treat, but maybe she didn't chew it because it was bigger. I have given them to her before and she did not gag. However, she has also gagged after metronidazole (medication) a couple of times. That stuff is awful though

-She didn't heal properly after her spay and the poor girl had to wear the cone for three weeks. Not sure if that was his mistake, or part of all this, but I think part of all this."

Eating fast, drinking a lot, and indigestion are common amongst historically malnourished, underfed cats. Some take years to slow down, so Great if your girl has already mastered this skill! Just to be safe, is she "spitting up" immediately after eating, regurgitating her food, or is this occurring many hours after feeding her? You may want to place her food in a small puzzle dish such as converting a cupcake or mini-muffin pan into a feeder dish for her. She'll have to eat a tsp or less out of each little compartment to feed herself, slowing her down.

This was very effective for my last calico fosters, Ziva and Reba, who were outdoor "neighborhood" strays a client brought it during a flood. They attacked all food, and anything resembling or smelling of food, with shredding, biting gusto. They drank 3x the water of any other cat I'd ever owned or fostered, about as much as diabetic and renal patients! Ate all things textile until calmed enough indoors, about 1.5 years later, with interactive play, harness walks, lotsa puzzle balls and toys, and tall cat towers to explore and climb. They were my most difficult fosters to home, but they're couch kitties in their separate homes now!

Halitosis or bad breath due to gingivitis is common, however, at 6 months age, I expect her to be done losing deciduous teeth, and she should have her full adult dentition. Smely mouth is typical while they are losing teeth, have inflammation and bleeding, and adult permanent teeth erupting. Do you still see her adult teeth coming in, erupting slowly perhaps? They may just be finishing up, although this is standard at 4 months not 6. This could explain her gingivitis.

Black debris in the ears does sound like yeast, specifically an overgrowth of malasezzia. She needs a good ear cleansing until you can get a vet to prescribe antifungal/anti-inflammatory ear meds. EpiOtic Advanced and ADL Ear cleanser are great products for flushing debris from ear canals. Removing the debris and moisture removed the media on which the yeast thrives and reproduces/sporulates.

Over 60% of my feline patients tested have been coronavirus positive, with less than 10 symptomatic cats total. That's in 15 years, including some pretty gruesome cat breeder cattery situations, cat hoarders, and rescue/shelter testing. Implying or directly saying a cat has FIP from a positive coronavirus titer is just silly, uninformed, ignorant practicing of medicine. Shame on your <former> rDVM for even implying, let alone diagnosing, FIP.

Diet can play a big part in the overgrowth of both superficial malasezzia and sporulating clostridia in the intestines. Clinically, we have found tylosin much more effective for clostridia overgrowth as opposed to metronidazole. It doesn't respond to penicillin-based drugs, so amoxicillin is more an adjunctive therapy than anything. Also, cats tend to absorb amoxicillin/clavulanic acid better than amoxicillin alone, which is why Clavamox is so heavily relied upon.

Tylosin is available as Tylan water soluble powder, so hand oils cause it to start dissolving. Best administered in gelcaps which a regular family practice or compounding pharmacy usually fills manually. Tylan powder is available over the counter as it is labeled for poultry science and swine. Cats and dogs greatly benefit from its use for diarrhea though. Many internists only use metronidazole injectable and oral dosing though, as they aren't familiar with tylosin enough to utilize it. Shelter medicine and rescue/NPO work taught me that trick, not the multitude of internists with which I've worked. You can posit the idea to your next vet, but consider trying it even if they aren't familiar with it. It's a very efficacious, client-underutilized medication.

How is her activity level? What does her incision site look like now? Flat or raised? Dry or moist?

You may benefit from utilizing the AAFP search tool for a gold or silver cat clinic in your area. http://www.catvets.com/cat-owners/find-vets-and-practices  In my area, some known excellent cat vets with whom I've worked and/or been a client of are listed, so I find it accurate for my area. West coast and NE residents have indicated the same when utilizing this tool.

Good luck with your young lil wild one, and hope you find her a great family veterinarian!
 
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dolphin005

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@mrsgreenjeans  for years and still continues to be, the general consensus among vets is to introduce a new food over the course of 7-10 days. It's only recently I am seeing that may not have to be the case, but I don't know enough about it yet so I am on the fence. I went and bought her Nature's Instinct wet food chicken formula today. I will transition her for at least a few days only because she is just coming off the two medications. I am not convinced LID is doing anything for her since her symptoms have remained the same no matter what brand, protein or diet I have had her on.  You guys are right though, a common denominator in all of those foods is fish oil, so it is worth a try to see if that is the cause.  She is still on the probiotics I had her on during the course of antibiotics, so hopefully that helps somewhat.

@puck she isn't really spitting up per se. The episodes of the sneezy/spitty thing are not every day, but the wet sounding burps are. She has never vomited or dry heaved. The burps occur shortly after eating, usually no more than 15 minutes after eating. Sometimes it sounds wet. It is one "burp" after every  meal and that is it as far as they go.  I had her eating 1/6 of a 5.5oz can off of a large plate 6 times a day and that slowed her right down. It took her over 12 minutes to eat that small amount because I spread it. Unfortunately, it made no difference in symptoms but it has taught her to slow down with eating, which is good.  Before I came up with the plate idea, I was spoon feeding her to slow her down. I made her lick it off the back of the spoon. That was hard to do 6 times a day lol.

I am trying not to worry about the amount of water she drinks since her kidneys, liver and blood sugar are all good. I try and chalk it up to her just "liking" water, but it's hard to do that when there are all these other symptoms. She has never touched a morsel of dry food in my care since I got her at 8 weeks old. I will never feed dry food again. It's the fact that she is on a wet diet and still drinks more water than my previous babies that I had on dry food that worries me.

All her adult teeth are confirmed to be in. I have never seen or rather smelled breath as bad as hers in any of my previous cats when they were babies.  Thankfully her breath and gums are getting better. Not sure if that is coincidence or the meds, but it got better around the time she started on the meds.

The black debris in her ears, if it is yeast, any ideas on if that can be contributing to the rest of her symptoms?

Yes, I am still pissed that he specifically told me she had FIP. The thought of losing her had me in tears all night. Especially after a recent traumatic loss.  Thankfully I approached my friend and came across a better informed website about how FIP is truly diagnosed and how it is often misdiagnosed leading to unnecessary euthanasias.  I needs to do more  homework on it if I decide I want another cat down the road. Right now it seems like it is out of the question, but not for the rest of her life. If she is not a main carrier, it seems possible that she can rid herself of the virus in a couple of years.  

Tylosin is another drug? I can get it over the counter?  I would like to stay away from ingested drugs for a while unless I am guaranteed they will work and no harm will come.  I had high hopes for these last two, but based on what you're saying, it makes sense why they did not work. I have a background formerly working with hundreds of pharmacists, so I know more about drugs than I should and I still have access to those same pharmacists.... However, the Tylosin was sounding familiar so I just went back and looked at an old email from one of the ladies from the rescue group I adopted Luna from. She mentioned that drug too and said not a lot of vets know about it... By the way, clavomax is not that great. Check Dr. Lisa Peirson's (Not sure if that is correct spelling of her last name) website. catinfo.org

I hope the Nature's Variety chicken works. As mentioned above, with being on 3 different proteins, including a novel, and having the same symptoms, I am less inclined to think it is a protein allergy and more an ingredient like the fish oil or maybe she can't process processed food. Unless it is medical.... I am afraid to start her on a raw diet at this point. Especially since all the bacteria was wiped out of her stomach.  None of the food I have had her on has come from a grocery store - Nor is it Blue Buffalo lol.  Merrick, Wellness and Natural Balance 

Her activity level is pretty good. She's a typical kitten beyond her symptoms. The biting is a little excessive and I have never encouraged it. She just doesn't care that I don't like it lol.  She runs around, plays, gets into a lot of trouble. A stranger coming in would never know something was wrong. The incision is finally getting better after 4 weeks, It's just a tiny little scab at the bottom and dry. I continue to swab and put polysporin on it twice a day. For the longest time, she was raised all around her incision, but it seems to be getting better. I think that is part of why it had trouble healing down at the bottom of it. It's like the open wound part was in a fold. I did read that the raised, hard ring around the incision was likely a reaction to the internal sutures and could take up to two months to go away

Thanks to everyone so far for the responses. This helps a lot!
 

denice

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I think generally speaking for kitties you don't have to do a slow transition with wet food.  Kibble does need a slow transition, mixing a small amount of new food with the old and gradually increase the amount of the new kibble until kitty is getting just the new kibble.

My kitty developed a chicken allergy which showed up as a yeast infection in his ears.  He had the black gunk in his ears.
 
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dolphin005

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The black gunk has been there since I got her and she's been off chicken for a couple of months before today. I didn't know I didn't have to transition if it's wet food
 

puck

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Spoon feeding is exactly what we do to start jump starting poor appetites in nursing. I finger feed, but tomato tomoto. Good for you, finding a method that limits the reflux sounding indigestive burping! She may have some reduced peristalsis with her esophagus, or poor ciliary movement in her trachea; when one is whonky, it will affect the anatomy next to it, such as when a cat vomits, some acidic bile burns the trachea, so they may cough or hack for a while post-vomiting, as every breath is scratchy and irritating.

I'd count her water as a lucky accident, of a past life, and move on too. She'll never be tacky, have over-concentrated urine, or sludgy blood! Woot!

"However, the Tylosin was sounding familiar so I just went back and looked at an old email from one of the ladies from the rescue group I adopted Luna from. She mentioned that drug too and said not a lot of vets know about it... By the way, clavomax is not that great. Check Dr. Lisa Peirson's (Not sure if that is correct spelling of her last name) website."

I respond from all personal and professional experience. I do not quote or reference a single book, person, or website. After sharing over 15 dedicated, evolving years with para-professionals in my field whose experience totals more than 12,500 years combined in the veterinary field, I tend to use all of our cohesive, cooperative history with patients. Amoxicillin by itself is not an effective antibiotic for diarrhea, let alone for a cat. Amoxicillin with clavulanic acid has a better chance, speaking within the confines of penicillins, which are not used for diarrhea. Amoxicillin is used with metro in dogs that have campylobacter, not in cats with clostridia overgrowth.

Tylosin is indeed very safe. I've used it for over 20 years in my own critters, over 50 fosters, over 10 farm cats, over 8 personal cats, over 10 personal dogs, and over 100 swine and chickens ;] Plus, in the last 15 years, over 1000 acute and chronic diarrhea patients. Many owners got so familiar and comfortable with it, they would buy their own bottle of Tylan powder at Southern States, Tractor Supply, then online once that was at option, via KV Vet Supply, Valley Vet Supply, etc. It is very bitter, best hidden in stinky canned food, only a "pinch" aka 1/32 tsp needed per cat, and less per kitten. For dogs, I use size #0 and 00 gelcaps, fill them with powder, wash my hands, use a pharmacy spatula to whisk them into a bottle, then administer each cap in peanut butter, soft cheese, pill pocket, etc. Or pill by hand, manually, down the back of the throat and chase with water.

My cats, own and foster, take it great in fishy Wellness with lobster, shrimp, crab, in pate/ground style only, as the shredded whole canned diet don't hide that bitterness as well. In hospital, we keep Fancy Feast green can, the Shrimp Sole and Cod classic, so we can medicate those cats that are too fractious to manually pill. The green can has worked when I can't get them to eat fishy high quality stinky foods deemed better by us, but damned by the finicky feline. I literally created an whiteboard nursing order we now use in ICU called "Get the Green Can!" for our very sick, yet fractious, patients, as a last ditch effort to get meds in them; ideally, a cat with a history of vomiting and diarrhea, controlled on IV meds and fluid now, would never get FF, would only get whole meat and easily digested/absorbed diet, but we morph our expectations and treatments according to the patient.

The lower end, or caudal end, of spay incisions often are in a skin fold and prone to moisture. I've worked with some rDVMs that would proactively make that area a "nipple extrovert" after excising the lower edges a little deeper/wider margins before closing with what is called a simple continuous and subcuticular pattern, limiting incision problems in recovery. It will especially cause a fold and infection if there is extra skin due to excess belly fat under the skin, making closure difficult, slippery, and prone to inverted folding while healing.  Glad she'll let you put the topical ointment on and then she leaves it alone. So many girls lick in more fervor and angst when we apply meds to the incision, but we place the E-collar for the first hour after, then distract them from paying attention to their ventrum with brain/puzzle games and food ;]

I abruptly leave after an abrupt loud noise for biting, even love bites that are too hard, so they learn where the limit is for me. Especially for cats that didn't grow up around siblings and a dam teaching them the limits of pain when play-predating and play-biting. As she is 6 months, this would have been taught from age 8 weeks to 12 weeks with littermates and dam; sounds like she was just trying to survive during that age, so biting may have been necessary just to get to the food. I've worked with many volunteers and board members of rescues that believe in scruffing a bitey cat, and telling her No firmly, tapping her head with their free hand while scruffing them, sometimes suspended in the air, Ach. I find this eventually leads to aberrant behavior, and rather than go on the offensive, to disregard the biting cat after a loud abrupt "ouch" noise to be effective.

I have had some feisty independent calico girls for which this method was effective with time. Their previous foster/finder people would scruff them, which just pissed them the hell off. Never turn a calico or tortie into a p.o.k., aka Pissed Off Kitty! Others, it made fearful. I scruff in nursing restraint as needed, for short term solution to get a cat the treatment they need. To do it for behavioral modification is a mistake. A foolish one that can lead to people being hurt, and cats mistrusting at best, going on the offensive at worst. Sounds like the method you're using will eventually be

Good luck with your girl and finding a vet! Don't forget to use the AAFP tool, while still screening through for a competent, compassionate vet. That balance is a challenge! Even at a cat-only hospital, as they will hire new vets that need good mentoring and experience, which they don't necessarily receive from the owner or existing staff vet. Depending on how obsolete the mentor vet(s) feel, how threatened, by the younger doctor(s). I enjoy gaining the new science and methods new staff bring, and teaching them. Many need to take on this perspective, but don't. If you get a pretty new vet, at least you are experienced and educated enough, and as long as they are open and willing to try to listen to your experience or requests, time and effort won't be wasted looking for zebras, rather than horses, when they hear hoofbeats ;]
 
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dolphin005

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Spoon feeding did not eliminate it. That's what I mean - nothing I try works. It's very frustrating. She will be on Nature's Variety wet chicken food starting tomorrow. Maybe the lack of fish oil will make a difference, but I'm not holding my breath. I know Raven couldn't tolerate too much fish - She would vomit. She isn't around anymore and the two are not related.

I do wonder if it is possible for Tylosin to rid her of all these symptoms. If it is just for diarrhea then it won't work for everything else she has, which I think boil down to one root cause.

My poor girl had to wear the e-collar for 3 weeks.

I don't ever scruff and wouldn't unless absolutely necessary. Although, medically, she is a good patient. I can do anything to her and she deals with it. Even the horrible Flagyl - she hated it because it tastes awful, but she put up with it. I will keep working on the biting. Most times it's when she wants to eat, because that is when she will go after fingers or toes, but occasionally she tries to bite with playing. All I can do is be consistent and keep trying

Thanks for all of your suggestions
 
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