Periodically limp skinny kitten~ please help

     I have a few foster kittens and one of them is having a difficult time. She is very small (~3 weeks old) and in the past week has had 4 episodes where she becomes very weak/limp for a few hours and breaths heavily. Each time (the usually happen around 9 pm) I fully expect to find her deceased in the morning, just to see her alert and meowing for food.

      Some background on her: She came to me at 2 days old from an unknown background. I feed all my fosters Goat milk. She began to have mucousy yellow foul smelling diarrhea about a week and a half ago. A day or two after the onset of diarrhea she had her first limp episode. I gave her a simple syrup of sugar and water ( I do not have karo on hand) and a dose of albon that night. she was still alive in the morning. The vet I took her to (she is my foster and I had to tale her to the vet the agency I foster for uses) said she was too little to treat and that I should just giver her proviable to help with the Diarrhea and a dose of strongid.

     Currently she has 2 days left in the 9 day treatment of albon. I give her lixotinic once a day and supplement her Goat milk with Nutri Cal. She is extremely emaciated and barely eats. She readily latches on to the bottle, but only takes a few good swallows. I have been forcing her to eat more, but I feel like she isn't holding on to her calories.

     I have a 7 month old baby and I have been sick myself for a week now and I just feel like I'm not taking good care of her. The other kittens are fine, so I know that maybe she has something wrong with her. I really need to give the fosters back as I bit off a little more then I could chew by taking them on while I'm still trying to get the hang of being a mom, but I'm so afraid if I send them back to the shelter now that this little kitten will die.

Any suggestions or input are appreciated. I really want her to make it and I'm trying very hard. I have had hard cases in the past, but this one is unique and is proving to be a challenge. I just want Little Cheez-It to live.

Sorry to hear the little one is having trouble.  I notice you have not had an advisor answer.  You may try posting in pregnant cats and kittens forum.  I know they regularly check in on those forums.  @StefanZ

Thanks, guys! I didn't think of putting it in that forum. Should I make a new thread there, or wait for the mod to move it?

Cheez-it seems ok this morning after having another episode last night.

brighte said:

 
Thanks, guys! I didn't think of putting it in that forum. Should I make a new thread there, or wait for the mod to move it?

Cheez-it seems ok this morning after having another episode last night.

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I had already asked, so easiest for you to wait.

What goat milk do you use, raw or bottled?

I use the Myenberger powdered Goat milk. I've had great success in the past with it.

brighte said:

 
I use the Myenberger powdered Goat milk. I've had great success in the past with it.

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Ok, I myself Im believer of goat milk, so what you say confirms this nicely.  Although I know raw goat milk is the best.  Not because I can get in in Sweden, its purely logical.  

If you can get hold of raw goat milk, try with this too...  Cant hurt, may help.  Alhough you do use already a good probiotic, so it has in part the same result.

Strongid, ie a pyrantel preparate, is also something to try with.

Re her occuring weakenesses, I dont really have a sure clue on it.  Although I vaguely remember some of our forumties had something similiar.

But re the amount of feeding...

The way to know if they get enough is to weight them daily, / regularly, and see how much they gain.  If they dont gain, they get too little...

They need about 8ml kmr or goat milk /oz =30g every day,  so a kitten of 300 gram, 10 oz, should have about 80 ml daily.  If it takes less, it dont gets enough...

If the kitten isnt taking bottle well, a syringe may be easier.  Although with these big amounts its easier with a bottle in one way... lotsa work with the syringe, you must load several times...

You are also giving her two different vitamine preparates, the Lixotinic and Nutrical,  its perhaps enough with one of them...

These reflections so far.

Good luck!

Thank you for your input. It is much appreciated.
Cheez-it seems to not be so well I pick up a fluid set for her and gave her some LRS SQ. I've been trying to force her to eat as much as I can, but I fear it's not enough. I was so happy she had a solid bowl movement yesterday morning, but today the diarrhea has returned. The first time it was gray like the proviable, but now it's white and looks just like goat milk. she is crying now. She's usually a very quiet kitten, but has now become more vocal. I'm not sure if that is good or bad.

brighte said:

Thank you for your input. It is much appreciated.
Cheez-it seems to not be so well

I pick up a fluid set for her and gave her some LRS SQ. I've been trying to force her to eat as much as I can, but I fear it's not enough. I was so happy she had a solid bowl movement yesterday morning, but today the diarrhea has returned. The first time it was gray like the proviable, but now it's white and looks just like goat milk.

she is crying now. She's usually a very quiet kitten, but has now become more vocal. I'm not sure if that is good or bad.

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I too Im becoming to worry for real.  But its just to fight on!

An alternative both to hydrating by SubQutane injections, and as remedy to diarrheas,  may be a good home made pedialyte.   Ie depending on if this liquid you mention is essentially just a buffred water, or if it also contains lotsa of salts and electrolytes.   Which I think may be what she needs now.

I reuse from another post.

"Watery diarrhea is never good, but still, diarrhea as such may be better than constipation.

But watery diarrhea is also a problem of them losing both fluids, and losing electrolytes.

A good remedy is a good bought or home-made pedialyte.   Which is also in itself somewhat a stopper of diarrheas - for example, home made pedialtye is in itself the main weapon aganist the great Man-slaugher Cholera...

There are several recepts, my favorite at this moment

is, as the source of several different salts, you use simply a good minerale water.

You blend in it some glucose=dextrose sugar.  Say 2 tea spoons in a 250 ml cup.   If you dont have access to glucose sugar proper, you can use white caro syrup, honey, or even som other sugar syrup...

You warm it up to body temp and stir if necessary  - the gas will go out during this process...

And you use it."

White diarrhea!! This is a big red flag, she either has a large infection or is having an adverse reaction to the milk.

She must be switched ASAP.

I hope it's not too late, she is hyper sensitive to the goats milk.

I have seen this several times over the years, white means reacting to the milk, switch her to KMR, preferably Petag brand.

I have had a foster from my rescue group have a baby who was on KMR and needed to be switched to goat's milk, and did great after that, a few times over time, I have had a foster's kitten react to off brands of kmr like Hartz as well, and switching to Petag KMR made them all well again.

I have had 2 separate fosters contact me after the white poop had been going on for 2 or more days, their baby died.

So please get her switched asap. 

Also she does need much more milk fed, if you know her weight, feed 8mls per ounce of weight per day, don't allow her to decide how much to eat, it is up to you to make sure she gets enough for a good daily gain.

Perhaps it is a good idea to contact the shelter, tell them the situation and see if they might have an available foster for her who can work with her more than you can.

I can't imagine having a 7 month old baby and bottle feeding babies too, let alone if any needed extra attention!

This little one does need time given to slowly syringe feed, every 1-2 hours until things get better and more stable.

What can I use if I do not have pedialyte?

I got her some formula at the store today, but unfortunately have only been able to get about 20mls of formula in her total today. I made a homemade electrolyte solution and used that to mix her formula at her last feeding. I was only able to get 3mls in her at that time before she refused to swallow it. she is clamping her jaw and not taking the bottle. I try to wiggle the syringe in there when she meows and get a few drops in that she will swallow, but i can only do this a few times before she stops swallowing and fights to get away from me. Usually I'm all for forcing a kitten to eat, but I've never had one refuse to swallow and rather aspirate. I feel like she's playing dinner time chicken with me. It's like she's saying "really, lady? you think I'm going to eat that? fine, if you put it in my mouth it will go down....just not to my stomach."

she seems a little perkier then earlier. she focuses on me and moves her ears when i talk to her. her diarrhea is grey again. pretty much just grey liquid.

These kittens came to me with KMR and it gave the kitten i already had white poop. So I switched them all over to the goat milk. She had been doing well until a week ago, but the white poop has only happened today. I did switch her back to formula though.

I contacted the shelter the first time she worried me and they felt sorry for her but told me to wait until morning and if she was still alive they would send her to their vet. their vet only gave her the proviable and told me to give strongid at home.  They do not seem to really care to put too many resources into this kitten. I respect their standpoint, but when I have fosters that are mine i do a lot more for them.  of course, that said, I can't do as much for them anymore as I am not working. That was why i decided to foster for someone else. My husband agreed to let me continue as long as we were not on the hook for medical expenses.

Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge with me

I understand the shelter too, when there are just so many coming in they can really only do so much for one. Although fosters like you are their advocate, luckily for them!

I think you already know what will happen from her only getting 20 mls of milk a day, so I won't even go there.

Have to ever tube fed? Bot as easy in a 3 week old as a newborn let me tell you! But it's sure handy for kids like her who refuse to swallow.

Darnit. If only they knew......

catwoman707 said:

 
I understand the shelter too, when there are just so many coming in they can really only do so much for one. Although fosters like you are their advocate, luckily for them!

I think you already know what will happen from her only getting 20 mls of milk a day, so I won't even go there.

Have to ever tube fed? Bot as easy in a 3 week old as a newborn let me tell you! But it's sure handy for kids like her who refuse to swallow.

Darnit. If only they knew......

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Right,  tube feeding may be a solution.  Its dangerous and difficult for a newbe, and that is why we usually dont mention it.  You must have someone who knows and is experienced with this, show you exactly how to do it.  And also, lend you the gears, the tube for example.   The problem is, quite a few vets seems to dont knowing either how to do it....

So, if you have somebody near - rescuer, breeder, a vet or vet technician who is experienced and can show you - got for it, as its the best solution in difficult cases.

If not, and you feel desperate enough, google on it.  Its described in several places.   Look through several of these sites, read carefully, think over - get the gears, and do your try, with suitable prayers and hoping for help from Above.

If you succeed, dont give everything at once, increase rather slowly as you would do with any survivor from a famine.

@brighte  

I do not know how to tube feed a kitten. I have only ever tube fed a snake.
I'm very sorry to say that she passed just after 11pm last night. I just held her and told her how much she meant to me. I wanted her to know someone on this earth cared for her.
I feel horribly guilty as I do every time I lose a kitten regardless of the reason. It's sad how one loss temporarily makes you feel as if all the ones you didn't lose do not count.

I have no clue as to why she was lost. After she passed, milk started to come back out of her nose and her belly swelled up. when I palpated her belly more milk came out of her. I'm so confused as to what I did wrong or if I even did do anything wrong.
My husband keeps reminding me I can't save them all, but that was the only life this kitten had. And now she doesn't. I feel horrible.

If you decide to go with tube feeding, there are 2 main things that ensure it's done safely.

One is an accurate measure of tube. The other is feeling for resistance once past throat, it should slide down easily. 

If not, pull it back up a bit and do it again. Lungs will cause resistance,  tummy entry will not.

brighte said:

I do not know how to tube feed a kitten. I have only ever tube fed a snake.
I'm very sorry to say that she passed just after 11pm last night.

I just held her and told her how much she meant to me. I wanted her to know someone on this earth cared for her.
I feel horribly guilty as I do every time I lose a kitten regardless of the reason. It's sad how one loss temporarily makes you feel as if all the ones you didn't lose do not count.

I have no clue as to why she was lost. After she passed, milk started to come back out of her nose and her belly swelled up.

when I palpated her belly more milk came out of her. I'm so confused as to what I did wrong or if I even did do anything wrong.
My husband keeps reminding me I can't save them all, but that was the only life this kitten had. And now she doesn't. I feel horrible.

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Oh my...............I am so sorry. Your words have been my own more times then I care to remember.

I know exactly where you are right now. Hate to think we all feel the same way, as I know how badly it hurts, like you let her down, what could you have done differently, all of it.

I know how one loss outweighs the 30 saved too. That is the worst part.

Very sad, very sorry.

brighte said:

I'm very sorry to say that she passed just after 11pm last night.

I just held her and told her how much she meant to me. I wanted her to know someone on this earth cared for her.
I feel horribly guilty as I do every time I lose a kitten regardless of the reason. It's sad how one loss temporarily makes you feel as if all the ones you didn't lose do not count.

I have no clue as to why she was lost. After she passed, milk started to come back out of her nose and her belly swelled up.

when I palpated her belly more milk came out of her. I'm so confused as to what I did wrong or if I even did do anything wrong.
My husband keeps reminding me I can't save them all, but that was the only life this kitten had. And now she doesn't. I feel horrible.

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Yes, verry understandably...  You being there, giving so much of yourself to these little one...  Even I, helping through the internet, very often it takes badly on me, when a kitten I was following perhaps for days, practically around the clock, passes away... A blow both to the rescuer, and often to me too.

Still, its "just" to try and recharge the batteries, and try again next time... Hopefully more knowleable, hopefully more wise.   You cant help them all, but you can always help someone, and be the decisive help there. So its for you doing this in practice, so its for me trying to help through the internet...

What happened with this little one, we cant know. It seems the intestines ceased to work.  Why, I dont have any clue at this moment, although probably she was doomed from the beginning.

RIP  little one!   May your soul live on happily forever!

I will now ask a mod to close this thread, as we usually do when the kitten passes away.

If you have any other questions, or kittens to ask about, anything, please dont hesitate to start a new thread.

Warm hugs!

Bless you & this little kitten. You did everything you could for her and let her know she was loved until the end. Another little angel over the rainbow bridge!

This is a very sad update for your little foster kitten.   You gave love and care to this kitten while she was with you, and she will live on in your heart I am sure.   The TCS team would like you to know that we are so very sorry for your loss. Threads are locked after someone has suffered such a loss, as a sign of respect.   We invite you to place a tribute at  http://www.thecatsite.com/f/19/crossing-the-bridge  as an enduring testimony to this little one.  

 Play and run free over the bridge little one. 

This thread is now locked.