My new rescue cat seems to be goading my older cat into fights? Are they fights

I adopted a rescue cat last Sunday from the cat home - he'd been there for three months, a lovely wee three legged tabby called Felix.  I brought him into the house to live with my older rescue cat Sabbath (who I have had for a year and a half).  Sabbath is not an aggressive cat by nature but has gone for Felix a few times while other times he'll give him a few licks and move on.

The thing is, Felix just flops himself down in front of Sabbath and his tail starts flicking as if he's WANTING to be attacked, and Sabbath seems unable to help himself from eventually going for Felix's neck.

As far as I can tell there's been no blood.  Felix makes a little squeal but doesn't seem overly hurt and just keeps doing this.

We keep breaking up the fights while other people say don't break the fights up, they're fighting out a dominance act, some say spray the offending cat but others say that can make the offending cat feel betrayed.

Sabbath is already feeling a bit betrayed with me (and won't socialise with me much in front of Felix - although he will when we're alone).  I just don't really know what to make of it all right now.

I probably wouldn't have brought in Felix but he'd been in the home a long time because no one wanted him due to his being a special needs cat (he's a lovely little friendly placid thing, I don't know why ANYONE would overlook him).  I also thought Sabbath would benefit from a friend as he does a lot of meowing at windows when he sees other cats.

I guess I worry because Felix is a bit defenceless only having one front leg, he's quite placid and not really fighting back.  I just really don't know how to handle it.

Did you do a slow introduction?  If not I would separate them and do introductions.  Here is an article on how to do it http://www.thecatsite.com/a/introducing-cats-to-cats   It may take a while and begins with scent swapping and the kitties don't see each other. 

I personally don't believe that kitties should be left to fight it out.  It is true that kitties do have a hierarchy and that hierarchy often will change and go back and forth.  With cats in the same household the dominance issues are usually worked out without fighting.  I don't know if what your kitties are doing is play or fighting, kitty play can look a lot like fighting.

We did a slowish introduction.  For the most part Felix lives in the living room and Sab lives in the bedroom with me, their litter boxes are in the aforementioned rooms.  They do eat together, however, there's never any attacking or grouchiness over food (in fact, they often switch bowls). 

I do believe they were playing earlier, a lot of chasing and running but no howling, spitting or clawing (Sabbath was doing his low to the ground bum wiggling and leaping but there never seemed to be any attack, just a sneak up and chase).  They actually sat down together on the rug about half a foot apart earlier which for them I'm hoping is progress.  Felix came to my room for the first time for a while today and sat on the bed (which is Sabbath's domain, really, this is where Sab sleeps) and Sabbath didn't really seem to care (that being said I still insist on having them in separate rooms at night for a few weeks.

Earlier Felix was hiding (in his usual place under the dining table) until Sabbath walked into the room then literally just came flying out of his hiding spot, run up to Sab and flopped down.  I've heard this is Submission but again, I just wonder if he's goading Sab lol.

I know slow introduction is best but it's very difficult and near impossible in a very small house.  I refuse to lock Sabbath in a bedroom when he's had the rule of the roost for a year and a half, it's not really fair, especially if I can't always be with him as generally he's never far from my side.  I refuse to lock him out of a room I'm in (it seems cruel to me).  At the moment my mother is housebound and I'm about 95% housebound so we are always home to supervise and react.  We've been letting Sabbath roam and keeping Felix in the one room (as I mentioned earlier, my mum left the door open accidentally and Felix came up to visit the room, lol).  The spats are brief (few seconds maybe twice/three times a day, fur never flies and it doesn't seem horrifically vicious, I wish I knew if it was playing, it's hard to tell with cats, lol). 

I'm hopeful as there's no hissing, spitting and shrieking that they're not going to resent each other (I've heard some cats will just attack at every single opportunity and hiss and spit nonstop the second the new cat is around).  I expect Sab to be a bit resentful as he was the only cat, and the "baby" and is very much "my" cat (he follows me from room to room and gets separation anxiety if I leave the house - this is also why I thought another cat would be a good idea to help him socialise a bit and get a little less hooked on one person, lol).  At the moment, I've been making a huge fuss of Sabbath, when I feed them treats together, I give Sab his first, I give him slightly bigger pieces of chicken/fish and I always make sure not to fuss over Felix when he's in the room just to try and get him to settle with the idea of the other cat being there changing nothing.  Whether he'll understand that, I really don't know.  I also make a huge fuss of him at night in "our" room so he understands nothing has changed between us and he's not losing out on anything.  Whether this is wise or not, I don't know lol.

As I said, I just worry because Felix is three legged and a bit wonky, he wouldn't defend himself all that well (although he's an incredible runner, lol).  

JadeLeaf said:

I adopted a rescue cat last Sunday from the cat home - he'd been there for three months, a lovely wee three legged tabby called Felix.  I brought him into the house to live with my older rescue cat Sabbath (who I have had for a year and a half).  Sabbath is not an aggressive cat by nature but has gone for Felix a few times while other times he'll give him a few licks and move on.

The thing is, Felix just flops himself down in front of Sabbath and his tail starts flicking as if he's WANTING to be attacked, and Sabbath seems unable to help himself from eventually going for Felix's neck.

As far as I can tell there's been no blood.  Felix makes a little squeal but doesn't seem overly hurt and just keeps doing this.

We keep breaking up the fights while other people say don't break the fights up, they're fighting out a dominance act, some say spray the offending cat but others say that can make the offending cat feel betrayed.

Sabbath is already feeling a bit betrayed with me (and won't socialise with me much in front of Felix - although he will when we're alone).  I just don't really know what to make of it all right now.

I probably wouldn't have brought in Felix but he'd been in the home a long time because no one wanted him due to his being a special needs cat (he's a lovely little friendly placid thing, I don't know why ANYONE would overlook him).  I also thought Sabbath would benefit from a friend as he does a lot of meowing at windows when he sees other cats.

I guess I worry because Felix is a bit defenceless only having one front leg, he's quite placid and not really fighting back.  I just really don't know how to handle it.

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I really think they are playing!   Wrestling matches are quite common, its one of the playing modes they do have.   And such a wrestling  catch as catch can may look quite violently!!!

Laying on the back, and defending with the paws, is a quite common defensive strategy.

Felix being a tripod, has difficulty to wrestly standing up, so willy nilly, he adopts the laying on his back defensive strategy.

I hadnt read your second post, but Im pretty sure - I have seen this scenario earlier, many times.

Good you adopted Felix although tripod.  If he hasnt no other damages nor problems, being three legged is no big problem for them.  Quite a few become even skilled hunters...

Tx for caring, saving the life of TWO cats.   Much pleasure for all involved, and lotsa of good Karma for you.

Good luck!

We did a slowish introduction.  For the most part Felix lives in the living room and Sab lives in the bedroom with me, their litter boxes are in the aforementioned rooms.  They do eat together, however, there's never any attacking or grouchiness over food (in fact, they often switch bowls). 

StefanZ said:

I really think they are playing!   Wrestling matches are quite common, its one of the playing modes they do have.   And such a wrestling  catch as catch can may look quite violently!!!
Laying on the back, and defending with the paws, is a quite common defensive strategy.

Felix being a tripod, has difficulty to wrestly standing up, so willy nilly, he adopts the laying on his back defensive strategy.

I hadnt read your second post, but Im pretty sure - I have seen this scenario earlier, many times.


Good you adopted Felix although tripod.  If he hasnt no other damages nor problems, being three legged is no big problem for them.  Quite a few become even skilled hunters...


Tx for caring, saving the life of TWO cats.   Much pleasure for all involved, and lotsa of good Karma for you.


Good luck!

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I didn't really save their lives as our shelters are non kill shelters thankfully. All I really did is give them a different life. Black cats and disabled animals seem to wait ages for a good home, I had the home that they needed.

Since you say they eat together and switch bowls without showing any signs of aggression, I tend to agree that this could just be aggressive playing. If that's the case it's very important that you do not stress them by reprimanding them, shouting or creating a threatening stimulus in any way. If one of them panics due to an interruption there's a risk he will associate the other cat with the perceived threat, at which point you could end up with a real aggression problem.  

Anne said:

 
Since you say they eat together and switch bowls without showing any signs of aggression, I tend to agree that this could just be aggressive playing. If that's the case it's very important that you do not stress them by reprimanding them, shouting or creating a threatening stimulus in any way. If one of them panics due to an interruption there's a risk he will associate the other cat with the perceived threat, at which point you could end up with a real aggression problem.  

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We've been warning them off the fights because Felix yelps every time it happens, I think Felix wants to play and Sabbath doesn't understand the difference too much.  Felix has never been a stray to my knowledge while Sabbath was a stray for ten weeks before he was rescued, so Sabbath's instincts are probably far different.  Felix lived with another male cat while Sabbath has to my knowledge, probably never really lived with another cat.  It's just so hard to gauge and I don't want either cat getting hurt as they are my babies.  We've let a few happen and Felix usually ends up running to the other end of the room then going back (I swear he's asking for it).

Today I brought Felix upstairs for the first time to sleep in my room and Sabbath has seemed quite calm with the idea and hasn't attacked or given Felix the stink eye so far.  It's quiet and calm (Felix apparently cried every night my mum had him with her, it seems either he's pining for Sabbath or pining for me as he's not let out a peep since he came upstairs).  Everyone has told me their cats fight occasionally - even those brought up together - and it's quite normal so this might just be the way things go.  One of them hissed today during a brief two second spat although I'm not sure which one it was.  Since then, it's all been silent.  I wish I knew how to read cat minds.

JadeLeaf said:

 
We did a slowish introduction.  For the most part Felix lives in the living room and Sab lives in the bedroom with me, their litter boxes are in the aforementioned rooms.  They do eat together, however, there's never any attacking or grouchiness over food (in fact, they often switch bowls). 

I didn't really save their lives as our shelters are non kill shelters thankfully. All I really did is give them a different life. Black cats and disabled animals seem to wait ages for a good home, I had the home that they needed.

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What you do write reinforces my belief, they are really pals already now, and the wrestling IS their way of playing..  Even some shrieking is part of the play!

As yes, dont be so modest, you saved them, no kill shelter or not.  Better a real home than a shelter...

Also, by taking them home, there were two new places NOW accessible, to homeless cats.  So, whatever your modesty, you DID saved at least two cats.  If not these, so two whom you dont know anything about.  Making your Karma even better.  

This happened this morning. Their backs were slightly touching, this is the bottom of my beg at my legs where Sab usually settles, Felix settled at my feet and they ended up closer. Hoping they're going to start cuddling soon. Was quite encouraged as this is only day 9.

I'm trying to bond them over their passion. Food. lol. No fighting over it. They'll even eat from the same bowl. It makes my heart swell a bit that they aren't fighting over their meals...someone told me meal times can be the worst with unfamiliar cats.

i would also suggest that what we think as bonding in people is not the same with cats. Some cats will cuddle and others will not. Just because they don't cuddle don't make them I have 5 cats and I have different places for the cats to sleep. I have found them at times to be in a pile but other times each to his own. You did not mention if either cat is altered. As most shelters I know will insist on fixing as a part of the adoption process, I am not assuming as you did not say. But anytime you have more than 2 cats if they are both males then they need to be both fixed. I have 4 males and 1 female all fixed. Even my dogs a lab and a chi are both fixed. That cuts down on the aggressive nature as well.

kstonya said:

i would also suggest that what we think as bonding in people is not the same with cats. Some cats will cuddle and others will not. Just because they don't cuddle don't make them I have 5 cats and I have different places for the cats to sleep. I have found them at times to be in a pile but other times each to his own. You did not mention if either cat is altered. As most shelters I know will insist on fixing as a part of the adoption process, I am not assuming as you did not say. But anytime you have more than 2 cats if they are both males then they need to be both fixed. I have 4 males and 1 female all fixed. Even my dogs a lab and a chi are both fixed. That cuts down on the aggressive nature as well.

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Both cats are neutered. It's the first thing the shelter does when they arrive. Felix was not fixed by his owners and the rescue had to do it when he got there (they think if he'd been neutered he wouldn't have wandered and lost his leg).

It's been their second night sleeping on the same bed and all was calm. Things are looking promising.

Things really do look promising...

I agree with Stefan that there is some aggressive playing going on, but that's what it is - playing.  And Anne's advice is great.

Keep us posted!

Sabbath walked into the room and decided to give Felix a brief bath.  He's done this (a few licks) only a few times but this lasted a few minutes and made me ridiculously happy.  They've been playing a bit more (Felix favours hide and seek) and Sabbath hasn't gone for him at all today.  They had a brief moment of play after the licking that looked worrying, but as Felix keeps going back for it I'm starting to think it's just play and nothing more.

Felix has seemed to have bonded to Sabbath a bit as he's taken to following him about (when they're not following me about stalkerishly) and if Sab goes to another room for a mid afternoon nap, Felix is now following him to lie a foot away from him. I didn't expect things to have progressed to this point by day ten, I thought I'd have waited at least a month or three perhaps, lol.  It's looking promising and I'm starting to calm down a bit now lol.

I know I must sound like such a worrywart but I've only ever had the one cat so having two is a huge thing for me and I'm inexperienced.  Felix seems extremely happy though and I think Sab has forgiven me for bringing him a new brother lmao.

You're not a worrywart.. you're worried about the furkids and we ALL do that... I think it's brilliant that things are going so well.  Looks like they're going to be buddies!

Great news for your furkids. As I have a mixed clan, at times it appears that the lab is "catching" and mauling the different cats. But even his 90+ lbs he has never broken the skin and the cats take and wait him out until we can distract him and the cat can slip away. Think of it like you go to a new city or new anything where you have to socialize with different people you have to learn how to communicate and this is how the cats learn about each other. They will come to an understanding as to who is boss and who is the follower. If you have ever studied characteristics of people or animals there is 4 differences. Dominate and recessive being the main ones but there is also 2 others dominate-recessive and recessive-recessive. I had a cat that had been bullied and so I have to pair him up with a recessive-recessive buddy.

Hoping your family to be the best

Caught this footage of Sab and Felix this morning.  I can't really tell if this is fighting or not but now Sab is going for Felix's one front paw now, mum says he pulled at his fur a bit as well.  I don't know, it seemed gentle but I could be wrong, this could be really bad for all I know?  :/

That is playing not fighting. I find that when they lay on their back it is more submissive than anything.

That's what I thought but mum was worried a Felix was getting his only front paw bit lol. Nine times out of ten, felix is instigating these encounters. Lately he runs up to Sab, pulls or bats his tail then runs off. In my opinion he's trying to engage Sab in play quite often but Sab is too lazy to bother lol. Sab isn't. Kittenish cat, Felix seems to be that way inclined.

This made me wuite happy. Sab gave Felix a small head bath which I've heard is a sign of bonding as its a place that Felix can't normally reach, I'm hoping its progress and that Sab isn't just "basting" him lmao