How far would you go for a nearly 12-year-old with kidney stones/failure?

Hi everyone,

I posted another thread on here yesterday about our almost 12-year-old boy, Bailey, who has been at the vet's for just over 24 hours now with several kidney stones and kidney failure.  He suddenly started showing signs of being ill this week and stopped eating, drinking, and started vomiting white foam.  At first, the vet thought that she felt a tumor in his belly, but upon seeing the x-rays, it was really an enlarged kidney with several stones with no tumor or signs of cancer.  His kidney blood work was so high yesterday that their machines couldn't even get an accurate reading.  He has lost some weight as well.  He has pretty much stayed the same since we left him there yesterday.  They did a repeat x-ray this morning and the stones haven't really moved.  They have not repeated his blood work as they didn't think it would be much different than it was yesterday.  They have had him on IV fluids, antibiotics, and pain medication.  They said that he did perk up some today and was sitting up more and he has been urinating, but that is from the IV fluids, but I think the fact that he CAN pass urine is at least somewhat of a positive sign.  They said that he has shown absolutely no interest in food or water, but I also know my boy and I think that partly may be due to the fact that he is in a totally strange place and we are not there.  When the vet called me today, she was not very optimistic and said that he really didn't have much quality of life and she kept strongly hinting at euthanasia.  I am not ready to take that drastic of a step yet and neither is my husband.  Our vet also knows that we don't have a huge budget to spend on vet bills, but I do NOT want to give up on our baby.  He has been with us for nearly 12 years and he means the world to both my husband and I.  I have been doing a lot of research online both last night and today about renal stones in cats and the possibilities of overcoming and surviving something of this nature.  I know that there are prescription foods that can help dissolve the stones.  The very first cat I had as a child had stones when he was just a kitten and he ended up living to be almost 18 with a change in diet, so that always gives me some hope.  I feel that if we could get him home (as long as he is comfortable enough) and get some of this prescription food into him (he may eat once he's home since he's obviously more comfortable here), that maybe we can beat this.  I am just looking for some advice.  What would you do if you were in our situation?  Obviously, we don't want him to suffer, but we are not ready to pull the plug and completely give up just yet either.  This is a very hard situation to deal with.  Bailey is a huge part of our family.  Even our other cats seem to miss him.  He is our baby and we love him to death.  The house is not the same without him here.  

I don't have any experience with your situation. Can they remove the bad kidney or break up the stones like they do with people? I'd not give up on him, if there is hope. Sadly I understand if cost is a factor. I wish you well as well as Bailey. What a tough situation to be in.

That is possible; however, that, unfortunately, costs about $5000.    We are really hoping that if we can get him strong enough to come home tomorrow, we can get him on a renal diet to help naturally dissolve these stones.  I don't know if that will be possible or not.

What kind of bothered me about this vet is that when she very first looked at him and felt the mass in his stomach, which turned out to be his enlarged kidney, she didn't even seem to think it was worth doing x-rays or blood work and gave me the impression that she automatically wanted to head towards the euthanasia route and she has not given us one single ounce of optimism or hope this entire time.  I know that she has to be honest and tell us exactly what is going on, but I just got a bad first impression for some reason.  She is not the vet that we usually see.  She seems very young.

jwathas said:

What kind of bothered me about this vet is that when she very first looked at him and felt the mass in his stomach, which turned out to be his enlarged kidney, she didn't even seem to think it was worth doing x-rays or blood work and gave me the impression that she automatically wanted to head towards the euthanasia route and she has not given us one single ounce of optimism or hope this entire time.  I know that she has to be honest and tell us exactly what is going on, but I just got a bad first impression for some reason.  She is not the vet that we usually see.  She seems very young.

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I would get a second opinion, if I was facing these kinds of choices. Can't hurt.

misterwhiskers said:

I would get a second opinion, if I was facing these kinds of choices. Can't hurt.

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That's exactly what I just told my husband, that I thought we should take him to another practice for a second opinion.  I just want to be 100% certain as to what we are facing with him and what his chances really are.  This vet has been nothing but a debbie downer every single time I have talked to her.

jwathas said:

 
That's exactly what I just told my husband, that I thought we should take him to another practice for a second opinion.  I just want to be 100% certain as to what we are facing with him and what his chances really are.  This vet has been nothing but a debbie downer every single time I have talked to her.

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A second opinion is a good idea.  You may get the same response, but you may be more at peace knowing you've explored all the possibilities you can.  

jwathas said:

 
 What would you do if you were in our situation?  Obviously, we don't want him to suffer, but we are not ready to pull the plug and completely give up just yet either.  This is a very hard situation to deal with.  Bailey is a huge part of our family.  Even our other cats seem to miss him.  He is our baby and we love him to death.  The house is not the same without him here.  

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i would get a second opinion from a cat-only vet, a board-certified feline practitioner, or a board-certified small animal internal medicine vet:

http://www.catvets.com/cat-owners/find-vets-and-practices

http://www.abvp.com/diplomate

http://www.acvim.org/AnimalOwners/FindaSpecialist.aspx

detmut said:

 
i would get a second opinion from a cat-only vet, a board-certified feline practitioner, or a board-certified small animal internal medicine vet:

http://www.catvets.com/cat-owners/find-vets-and-practices

http://www.abvp.com/diplomate

http://www.acvim.org/AnimalOwners/FindaSpecialist.aspx

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We would absolutely love to do this.  I'm not sure if we have any cat-only vets anywhere in our immediate area, but I'm going to research it right now.  This vet we have now hasn't even shown one ounce of sympathy, even when I was in tears in the office and on the phone.  She just gets straight to the facts, which I understand, but come on.  She has the worst bedside manner I've ever seen in any vet.

Your impression of how your current vet acted makes the second opinion totally worth it. You wouldn't forgive yourself otherwise. I understand preventing suffering but there has to be a balance too if there's a chance for postive outcome. Erring on the side of euthanizing too soon is not unheard of; many people might feel strongly about it even. But regardless of what this vet thinks about that, your impression is that she jumped a bit too soon.

With any kidney trouble, the fluid will give some better feeling. If he's passing urine, he's not completely blocked. Beyond that I know nothing of how to deal with stones but if there is some possible treatment that is in your budget, I can understanding wanting to find it and try it. I don't think a second opinion could hurt and the current vet should respect that just like human doctors should respect it.

He is going to need some nutritional support somehow in the next day or so I would guess, whether he is getting it at a vet or eating at home (or eating at the vet if that happens). The one time I experienced extended zero eating my vet wasn't nervous until after 3 days of no eating, for whatever that's worth.

Another tough night ahead I'm sure but maybe you'll feel a little better knowing you're going to do this. Hang in there.

2bcat said:

Your impression of how your current vet acted makes the second opinion totally worth it. You wouldn't forgive yourself otherwise. I understand preventing suffering but there has to be a balance too if there's a chance for postive outcome. Erring on the side of euthanizing too soon is not unheard of; many people might feel strongly about it even. But regardless of what this vet thinks about that, your impression is that she jumped a bit too soon.

With any kidney trouble, the fluid will give some better feeling. If he's passing urine, he's not completely blocked. Beyond that I know nothing of how to deal with stones but if there is some possible treatment that is in your budget, I can understanding wanting to find it and try it. I don't think a second opinion could hurt and the current vet should respect that just like human doctors should respect it.

He is going to need some nutritional support somehow in the next day or so I would guess, whether he is getting it at a vet or eating at home (or eating at the vet if that happens). The one time I experienced extended zero eating my vet wasn't nervous until after 3 days of no eating, for whatever that's worth.

Another tough night ahead I'm sure but maybe you'll feel a little better knowing you're going to do this. Hang in there.

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I definitely feel that she jumped the gun on euthanizing him.  She had barely spent even 10 minutes with him when she started making subtle hints towards it.  

We are hoping and praying that he just needed more than one day of hospitalization and IV fluids to start showing improvement.  She did tell me earlier today that she was going to try another medication on him (didn't tell me what) and that they would do another x-ray tomorrow morning to see if the stones have moved at all.  As of this morning, they hadn't, but it hadn't even been 24 hours that he had been there yet.  All I want is to get our boy home and go from there.  I just hope he is strong enough and will eat something.  

I actually just found that there is a house call vet in our area and I emailed her, explained the entire situation, and asked if she may be able to help us if we can get him home.  

You definitely need to get on the Tanya's CRF web site, and then get on or join their support group through yahoo. The people on that support group are full of knowledge. IF your vet, or the new vet runs a complete blood work panel, the members will review everything, and ask you for everything!  You will see all the amazing things that this group has come up with regarding your cat's results. I know this is a hard disease to deal with, and yes some cats aren't as resilient, and yet some can really improve. Just like people, kidney disease does not resolve itself, but can be controlled for a long time with dedicated control.

Anne with Cats said:

 
You definitely need to get on the Tanya's CRF web site, and then get on or join their support group through yahoo. The people on that support group are full of knowledge. IF your vet, or the new vet runs a complete blood work panel, the members will review everything, and ask you for everything!  You will see all the amazing things that this group has come up with regarding your cat's results. I know this is a hard disease to deal with, and yes some cats aren't as resilient, and yet some can really improve. Just like people, kidney disease does not resolve itself, but can be controlled for a long time with dedicated control.

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I'll definitely check into that.  Our current vet did run a full blood work panel, but his values were so high that their machine couldn't even get an accurate level.    I will check them out, though, and see if they can offer any insight!

HI there! 

Several years ago, I had a cat nearly the same age, and she was diagnosed with chronic renal failure.  by joining Tanyascrf site, which has been suggested by Anne with Cats here, I was able to give her more time, and it was so much help you would not believe.

Not all vets were positive for my girl, one gave me less than three weeks, but she had five more months with me. Some cats get much more time, with proper help. Not all vets know much about treatments. Tanyas site is just amazing, and you will find positivity , support and treatment options. 

If you are going to get a second opinion, you might ask about the vets experience in treating kidney disease. you can feel them out and tell what they think. If  you check into Tanyas site first, you can equip yourself with some good questions for the vet.. but be warned, some vets are not very supportive of any online information you might find. don't let any vet tell you that its not a good thing...my vet told me not to read anything online. he poohpoohed it.. and so we parted ways, and I found another vet who would listen, who checked out Tanyas site, and worked with us. 

I wish you the best. While chronic feline disease is not cureable, some forms of it are temporary, and caused by eating Lilies, for instance. or a bad infection.  You will want to find out those things, and act accordingly. Always ask for your cats bloodwork results, they can email them to you. you can use them and learn to read them yourself. don't let the vet treat you like you should not have a copy! been there and been treated like that. if you matter of factly ask for a copy to be faxed or emailed, they usually will. You can say its for your records. you pay for it, so you should have access to it.

best wishes for your kitty.. don't give up hope... many kitties live much longer lives than was expected, with appropriate treatments. I hope he is a good candidate!

aniebie said:

 
HI there! 

Several years ago, I had a cat nearly the same age, and she was diagnosed with chronic renal failure.  by joining Tanyascrf site, which has been suggested by Anne with Cats here, I was able to give her more time, and it was so much help you would not believe.

Not all vets were positive for my girl, one gave me less than three weeks, but she had five more months with me. Some cats get much more time, with proper help. Not all vets know much about treatments. Tanyas site is just amazing, and you will find positivity , support and treatment options. 

If you are going to get a second opinion, you might ask about the vets experience in treating kidney disease. you can feel them out and tell what they think. If  you check into Tanyas site first, you can equip yourself with some good questions for the vet.. but be warned, some vets are not very supportive of any online information you might find. don't let any vet tell you that its not a good thing...my vet told me not to read anything online. he poohpoohed it.. and so we parted ways, and I found another vet who would listen, who checked out Tanyas site, and worked with us. 

I wish you the best. While chronic feline disease is not cureable, some forms of it are temporary, and caused by eating Lilies, for instance. or a bad infection.  You will want to find out those things, and act accordingly. Always ask for your cats bloodwork results, they can email them to you. you can use them and learn to read them yourself. don't let the vet treat you like you should not have a copy! been there and been treated like that. if you matter of factly ask for a copy to be faxed or emailed, they usually will. You can say its for your records. you pay for it, so you should have access to it.

best wishes for your kitty.. don't give up hope... many kitties live much longer lives than was expected, with appropriate treatments. I hope he is a good candidate!

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Thank you so much!  Your post has made me feel better than I have all week!  The vet you had sounds almost EXACTLY like our current vet.  I feel like she doesn't even listen to me.  Whenever I try to be positive, she shoots me right down.  I tried to tell her about my very first cat that my parents got me when I was 3 years old and and how when he was very young (around a year old or even less), he developed stones and nearly lost his life, but with proper treatment and diet, he lived to be almost 18 years old, and our vet just totally dismissed that story.  When I talked to her today on the phone and she started to tell me that he had perked up some, I got kind of excited and said "oh good!" and then she cut me off and said "It's only because of the fluids."  She keeps telling me that he has zero quality of life and won't have any.  I think what we are going to do, depending on how he looks and acts tomorrow, is bring him home and get a second opinion and I'm going to do exactly what you suggested, which is call some other vets and ask what level of experience they have in feline renal disease.  I have already emailed a house call vet I found online who is in our area.  I honestly thought Bailey would live a good 15 years or so.  He'll turn 12 in September and he has always been so healthy and full of life until this week!  

I just requested to join Tanya's site, but it says it can take a couple of days to get an approval to join.    I was really hoping to get on there tonight before we go to the vet's tomorrow!

Thank goodness!  I was just approved!  I'm heading over there right now.  

I'm so sorry you're going through this!

Is your kitty getting ANY other treatment while in the hospital? If all they are doing is nutritional support and sub-q fluids, you can do that at home - as you can see on Tanya's website.

Many vibes for you and your baby as you navigate this. I'd be going to the mat for my fur kids, too. In fact, I do.

Bailey is at home now.  They sent us home with subcutaneous fluids, Prazosin, butorphanol elixir, buprenorphine, and mirtazapine.  He has been drinking water almost nonstop since we got home and he's totally loopy from the pain medication they gave him before we brought him home.  He's up an walking around and even laid in my lap for a while.  Hopefully all of this water he is drinking will help dissolve the stones.  The vet said not to worry on putting him on prescription food just yet.  She just wants to get him eating again and then, once that happens, we will switch him over to a renal food.