Advice on weight control, indoor formula and/or low fat dry food

moyu22 · May 4, 2015

Hi, it's been a while since my last post here, so just to get a few details out of the way: I have quite a few cats (all fixed and vaccinated), and as much as I would like to feed them an all wet diet, it's a little out of budget, not to mention that at least 3 of my cats absolutely refuse to eat any wet food. I feed them mostly dry food, plus canned food a few times a week, they always have water available and they do seem to drink plenty so no concerns there.

I'm currently feeding them for dry food:

- Tractor Supply's brand 4Health All Life Stages (Chicken) - Crude Protein 34.0% minimum, Crude Fat 18.0% minimum

- Chicken Soup Adult (Chicken, Turkey) - Crude Protein 34.0% minimum, Crude Fat 20.0% minimum

And for wet food:

- 4Health Turkey and Salmon, or Chicken and Brown Rice

- Friskies Classic Pate Poultry Favorites

Now here's the thing. My oldest cat (vet thinks she's around 11 years old), got sick last year (around January 2014) with what we thought was bronchitis. She was coughing quite a lot so after a trip to the vet and a round of antibiotics, she was back to normal. A few months later she got sick again, same symptoms as before, and the vet ordered some xrays as he thought perhaps something was wrong with her heart, said it was common in older cats. Except for some congestion, the xrays all looked normal, so after more antibiotics she was back to normal again. Long story short, she got sick a total of 5 times in the span of a year, all with the same symptoms (coughing, heavy breathing), the latest just over two months ago. On this last time, the vet ordered a new set of xrays to see what was going on, and this time noticed her heart was slightly larger than normal and there was a strange mass near her stomach, he thought it was a tumor and recommended an exploratory surgery to see what could be done. Things weren't looking to good at this point, and during the surgery her heart actually stopped for a moment, the vet was able to restart it but it was quite the scare. Thankfully there wasn't a tumor, but the vet found the mass in the xrays was actually fat tissue from an enlarged ligament, he said it was so big it was putting pressure on her stomach, spleen, lungs and was even pushing her heart into her chest. He removed the fat tissue, some hairballs, and recommended a temporary low fat diet to get her to lose some weight so it wouldn't happen again; she is a big cat and currently weighs around 14lbs, I got her Natural Balance Fat Cat food to help with her weight and so far she is doing very well, but the food is expensive so realistically, it's not the perfect solution.

Some of my cats are at their ideal/perfect weight, while others are a little overweight. I can't go around separating them to feed them different amounts, and it wouldn't be ideal to feed them different foods either, so I'm wondering what the best options for dry food would be? I've read plenty of messages saying that it's better to feed a normal diet rather than a weight management one because of the changes in protein amount, and the use of powdered cellulose in weight control diets, which I understand many are against. Basically, I want to find something that will work for all my cats (those on their ideal weight and those that are overweight); I'm not sure how much the crude fat from the guaranteed analysis matters, but both the dry foods I feed them right now are on the higher percentages from what I've seen, so I'm concerned about that.

Right now, I'm looking into possibly changing their dry food within the same brand as both 4Health and Chicken Soup work for them, and I'm considering this options: (click to see the ingredients/analysis)

Ingredients: Chicken, chicken meal, cracked pearled barley, turkey meal, white rice, powdered cellulose, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), peas, potatoes, potato protein, natural flavor, ocean fish meal, flaxseed, turkey, duck, salmon, egg product, potassium chloride, DL-methionine, choline chloride, taurine, dried chicory root, L-Carnitine, dried kelp, carrots, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, cranberries, rosemary extract, parsley flake, yucca schidigera extract, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, zinc proteinate, vitamin E supplement, niacin, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, zinc sulfate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A supplement, biotin, potassium iodide, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin (vitamin B2), pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein 32.0% minimum, Crude Fat 13.0% minimum, Crude Fiber 8.0% maximum, 3,388 kcal/kg (317 kcal/cup)

Ingredients: Chicken, chicken meal, cracked pearled barley, turkey meal, white rice, powdered cellulose, peas, potatoes, potato protein, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), natural flavor, ocean fish meal, flaxseed, turkey, duck, salmon, sodium bisulfate, egg product, potassium chloride, DL-methionine, choline chloride, taurine, dried chicory root, L-Carnitine, dried kelp, carrots, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, cranberries, rosemary extract, parsley flake, yucca schidigera extract, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, zinc proteinate, vitamin E supplement, niacin, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, zinc sulfate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A supplement, biotin, potassium iodide, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin (vitamin B2), pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein 34.0% minimum, Crude Fat 9.0% minimum, Crude Fiber 8.0% maximum, 3,295 kcal/kg (317 kcal/cup)

Ingredients: Chicken, chicken meal, cracked pearled barley, egg product, ground rice, powdered cellulose, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), salmon, potatoes, millet, natural chicken flavor, flaxseed, ocean fish meal, sodium bisulfate, potassium chloride, DL-methionine, choline chloride, dried chicory root, taurine, dried kelp, carrots, peas, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, dried skim milk, cranberries, rosemary extract, parsley flake, yucca schidigera extract, L-Carnitine, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, zinc proteinate, vitamin E supplement, niacin, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, zinc sulfate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin A supplement, biotin, potassium iodide, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein 32.0% (min.), Crude Fat 14.0% (min.), Crude Fiber 8.0% (max.), 3,450 kcal/kg

I have also seen a new Chicken Grain Free formula from 4Health at my local store (they only had a chicken and whitefish before and I try not to feed them fish), it doesn't seem like they have uploaded the information to their website, but I remember it not having fish and being around 34% protein/13% fat. Would this be a good option? Two of my male cats have had UTI's and crystals before (they both got blocked, one of them twice) and I know some think grain free diets are not good in this case, but I would still like to hear everyone's perspective on the matter.

Anyway, I know it's a long post but I would really appreciate your thoughts on this, are weight management diets really effective or would it be best if I just kept feeding them their normal diets?

Thanks!

Columbine · May 4, 2015

From what I understand, weight management diets are basically bulked out with carbs. Cats don't need many carbs, and lack the enzymes necessary to get nutrition from grains. So what you're actually doing with a weight management duet is feeding for bigger poops. I assume that's not exactly the effect you're after

The higher the grain/carb content in a food, the more likely a cat is to overeat/be hungry because the food is just not satisfying to them. The closer you get to a species appropriate diet (ie high meat, grain free, low to no carbs) the more satisfied a cat will be with its meal, massively reducing it's need to overeat. Grain free diets are exactly what a uti cat should be eating, btw. I think you've got a little mixed up on that point.

I'm not going to get on my soapbox about dry food, but I will say that a cat on dry food is far more prone to obesity, uti/crystals and dehydration. Cats are designed to get around 80 % of their fluid intake from their food - feed dry and their thirst drive simply isn't strong enough to compensate, no matter whether it seems like they're drinking well or not.

There are plenty of ways to persuade cats to transition from dry to wet. It should be perfectly possible to get all your gang eating a proportion of wet food.

I totally respect that budget is an issue for you - we can't always afford to feed our ideal diets to our cats - or get them to cooperate :lol3: I would say that a 100% wet diet will almost certainly work out cheaper than vet bills to treat diet related issues though

2cats4me · May 4, 2015

moyu22 said:
Hi, it's been a while since my last post here, so just to get a few details out of the way: I have quite a few cats (all fixed and vaccinated), and as much as I would like to feed them an all wet diet, it's a little out of budget, not to mention that at least 3 of my cats absolutely refuse to eat any wet food. I feed them mostly dry food, plus canned food a few times a week, they always have water available and they do seem to drink plenty so no concerns there.

I'm currently feeding them for dry food:

- Tractor Supply's brand 4Health All Life Stages (Chicken) - Crude Protein 34.0% minimum, Crude Fat 18.0% minimum

- Chicken Soup Adult (Chicken, Turkey) - Crude Protein 34.0% minimum, Crude Fat 20.0% minimum

And for wet food:

- 4Health Turkey and Salmon, or Chicken and Brown Rice

- Friskies Classic Pate Poultry Favorites

Now here's the thing. My oldest cat (vet thinks she's around 11 years old), got sick last year (around January 2014) with what we thought was bronchitis. She was coughing quite a lot so after a trip to the vet and a round of antibiotics, she was back to normal. A few months later she got sick again, same symptoms as before, and the vet ordered some xrays as he thought perhaps something was wrong with her heart, said it was common in older cats. Except for some congestion, the xrays all looked normal, so after more antibiotics she was back to normal again. Long story short, she got sick a total of 5 times in the span of a year, all with the same symptoms (coughing, heavy breathing), the latest just over two months ago. On this last time, the vet ordered a new set of xrays to see what was going on, and this time noticed her heart was slightly larger than normal and there was a strange mass near her stomach, he thought it was a tumor and recommended an exploratory surgery to see what could be done. Things weren't looking to good at this point, and during the surgery her heart actually stopped for a moment, the vet was able to restart it but it was quite the scare. Thankfully there wasn't a tumor, but the vet found the mass in the xrays was actually fat tissue from an enlarged ligament, he said it was so big it was putting pressure on her stomach, spleen, lungs and was even pushing her heart into her chest. He removed the fat tissue, some hairballs, and recommended a temporary low fat diet to get her to lose some weight so it wouldn't happen again; she is a big cat and currently weighs around 14lbs, I got her Natural Balance Fat Cat food to help with her weight and so far she is doing very well, but the food is expensive so realistically, it's not the perfect solution.

Some of my cats are at their ideal/perfect weight, while others are a little overweight. I can't go around separating them to feed them different amounts, and it wouldn't be ideal to feed them different foods either, so I'm wondering what the best options for dry food would be? I've read plenty of messages saying that it's better to feed a normal diet rather than a weight management one because of the changes in protein amount, and the use of powdered cellulose in weight control diets, which I understand many are against. Basically, I want to find something that will work for all my cats (those on their ideal weight and those that are overweight); I'm not sure how much the crude fat from the guaranteed analysis matters, but both the dry foods I feed them right now are on the higher percentages from what I've seen, so I'm concerned about that.

Right now, I'm looking into possibly changing their dry food within the same brand as both 4Health and Chicken Soup work for them, and I'm considering this options: (click to see the ingredients/analysis)

Ingredients: Chicken, chicken meal, cracked pearled barley, turkey meal, white rice, powdered cellulose, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), peas, potatoes, potato protein, natural flavor, ocean fish meal, flaxseed, turkey, duck, salmon, egg product, potassium chloride, DL-methionine, choline chloride, taurine, dried chicory root, L-Carnitine, dried kelp, carrots, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, cranberries, rosemary extract, parsley flake, yucca schidigera extract, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, zinc proteinate, vitamin E supplement, niacin, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, zinc sulfate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A supplement, biotin, potassium iodide, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin (vitamin B2), pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein 32.0% minimum, Crude Fat 13.0% minimum, Crude Fiber 8.0% maximum, 3,388 kcal/kg (317 kcal/cup)

Ingredients: Chicken, chicken meal, cracked pearled barley, turkey meal, white rice, powdered cellulose, peas, potatoes, potato protein, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), natural flavor, ocean fish meal, flaxseed, turkey, duck, salmon, sodium bisulfate, egg product, potassium chloride, DL-methionine, choline chloride, taurine, dried chicory root, L-Carnitine, dried kelp, carrots, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, cranberries, rosemary extract, parsley flake, yucca schidigera extract, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, zinc proteinate, vitamin E supplement, niacin, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, zinc sulfate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A supplement, biotin, potassium iodide, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin (vitamin B2), pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein 34.0% minimum, Crude Fat 9.0% minimum, Crude Fiber 8.0% maximum, 3,295 kcal/kg (317 kcal/cup)

Ingredients: Chicken, chicken meal, cracked pearled barley, egg product, ground rice, powdered cellulose, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), salmon, potatoes, millet, natural chicken flavor, flaxseed, ocean fish meal, sodium bisulfate, potassium chloride, DL-methionine, choline chloride, dried chicory root, taurine, dried kelp, carrots, peas, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, dried skim milk, cranberries, rosemary extract, parsley flake, yucca schidigera extract, L-Carnitine, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, zinc proteinate, vitamin E supplement, niacin, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, zinc sulfate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin A supplement, biotin, potassium iodide, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein 32.0% (min.), Crude Fat 14.0% (min.), Crude Fiber 8.0% (max.), 3,450 kcal/kg

I have also seen a new Chicken Grain Free formula from 4Health at my local store (they only had a chicken and whitefish before and I try not to feed them fish), it doesn't seem like they have uploaded the information to their website, but I remember it not having fish and being around 34% protein/13% fat. Would this be a good option? Two of my male cats have had UTI's and crystals before (they both got blocked, one of them twice) and I know some think grain free diets are not good in this case, but I would still like to hear everyone's perspective on the matter.

Anyway, I know it's a long post but I would really appreciate your thoughts on this, are weight management diets really effective or would it be best if I just kept feeding them their normal diets?

Thanks!

Hi , I have two cats that are super picky with wet food and the only two brands I could get them to eat I cannot give them any longer because it makes them sick So they are currently eating just kibble .. I understand the frustration of trying to find the right food ..

My cats eat Evo Turkey & Chicken kibble .. It is high protein and very low carb , only 8 % dry matter .. Evo also makes a weight management 15 % fat but slightly higher carbs @ 13 % dry matter .. The lower the carbs the better . Although a wet diet is usually best , sometimes it does not always work out the way you want it to . So you just do the best you can ..

mrsgreenjeens · May 4, 2015

If the ONE specific cat that needs to lose weight is one that eats wet food, and she likes the Friskies PATE, that's a perfectly good food to feed her. It's high in protein, middle of the road in fats, low in carbs, and inexpensive, especially if you can find it in the 13 oz can. Now all you need to know is how many calories per day she should be getting to get to her desired weight. If she's not very active, she might only need about 15 - 20 calories per pound of her IDEAL weight. Just call your Vet and ask about how many calories she should be eating, then call Friskies or go on-line and see how many calories are in an ounce of their food.

I know this is not exactly what you asked, but it's the easiest way, honestly, to get her to lose weight. Otherwise, if you free feed, which I'm thinking you do with a lot of cats, there is no way to restrict her calories, which is really the only way to get her to lose weight. Believe me, I've lived through it!!!!! I had to put all four of my cats on scheduled feedings of canned food (from free feeding kibble) to get my pudge to lose weight. And I tried so many different kibbles first, even prescription diet food

xcourtney3 · May 5, 2015

If you decide to go with Friskies, I previously posted the calorie content of all of their pates:

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/294228/purina-friskies-calorie-content

Advice on weight control, indoor formula and/or low fat dry food

moyu22

TCS Member

Thread starter

Columbine

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2cats4me

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mrsgreenjeens

Every Life Should Have Nine Cats

xcourtney3

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