I'm broken hearted and need to vent

mdaisy · Apr 27, 2015

I'm broken hearted and need to vent.

I'm recovering after my old cat Tails was put down due to intestinal cancer. I'm not quite ready to adopt another cat, that will be awhile, but I thought I'd do some research.

I was thinking about adopting a retired show cat as I am currently without any pets at all. At one time I had four cats and one Malinois mix dog. I've also taken care of snakes, mice and desert tortioses (sp?). I live in the desert and our local game warden approved us for caring for the desert tortioses long ago. I currently don't have any tortioses and don't plan to start doing that again.

Any way, I read through the web pages and the contracts for adopting a pedigree cat are so restrictive and assume the adoptive owners will NOT care for their cats. I'd love to know what happened to assuming people WOULD take care of the pets they adopt rather than assuming they won't.

The real kicker is every contract I read required their cats be kept indoors. I don't have a problem with that, but it means I will probably not be able to adopt a pedigree cat as I have a rare medical condition called neutropenia. My doctor would not be thrilled knowing I am handling cat poop. I have done so and in fact I've always kept a disposable litter box in the house for emergency use when Tails was alive.

I would have preferred adopting a pedigree cat as the last time I adopted a cat from the animal shelter the cat brought home the Calicivirus which infected every one of my cats. Adding insult to injury as I had the cat examined by a local vet before bringing the cat into our household. (I always do this.) The vet said it was OK to bring the cat home as the Calcivirus would not make my cats sick. I didn't know anything about the Calcivirus then but I sure learned.

My plan was to bring in a healthy cat from a reputable breeder but it looks like that won't happen. I will probably remain catless and that truly makes me sad.

On a positive note: Does anyone know anything about Turkish Angoras? I was also researching Ragdolls and Raggamuffins and I know both those breeds would have to be indoor kitties due to their breeding.

Thanks for reading my vent.

Anne · May 1, 2015

I'm so sorry to hear about Tails. It can take a while to recover

I am not at all sure having an indoor-outdoor cat is safer for your condition. That's because an indoors-only cat is exposed to fewer pathogens than a cat that goes outside and may be exposed to them via fleas, hunting mice/birds etc. As for handling the litterbox, your doctor should be the one to say just how much of a risk that is for you. It's probably best avoided but if you have to, it may be fine to clean the litterbox as long as you're wearing gloves. An automated litterbox may also be a good idea. Whether or not the cat goes outside, you should probably avoid feeding dry food or raw, as these are more likely to be contaminated by salmonella and similar pathogens.

As for breeder or shelter, there is a middle ground there too. You could adopt from an organization that specializes in fostering. That way, the cat is not likely to be exposed to shelter ailments and the chances of it being healthy are as good as with any cattery-bought cat. If you still prefer a purebred cat, there are breed rescues as well. We ran an article about such a rescue a while ago -

Rescuing Purebred Cats: Interview with Kirsten Kranz

mdaisy · May 1, 2015

Anne said:
I'm so sorry to hear about Tails. It can take a while to recover

I am not at all sure having an indoor-outdoor cat is safer for your condition. That's because an indoors-only cat is exposed to fewer pathogens than a cat that goes outside and may be exposed to them via fleas, hunting mice/birds etc. As for handling the litterbox, your doctor should be the one to say just how much of a risk that is for you. It's probably best avoided but if you have to, it may be fine to clean the litterbox as long as you're wearing gloves. An automated litterbox may also be a good idea. Whether or not the cat goes outside, you should probably avoid feeding dry food or raw, as these are more likely to be contaminated by salmonella and similar pathogens.

As for breeder or shelter, there is a middle ground there too. You could adopt from an organization that specializes in fostering. That way, the cat is not likely to be exposed to shelter ailments and the chances of it being healthy are as good as with any cattery-bought cat. If you still prefer a purebred cat, there are breed rescues as well. We ran an article about such a rescue a while ago -

Rescuing Purebred Cats: Interview with Kirsten Kranz

Here's a message I just posted on another board:

Thanks REDACTED for the input. The problem is the REDACTED Animal Shelter is supposed to serve the general public. I do not believe it is a "no kill" shelter. I have no problem with private shelters doing business as they see fit as long as it's legally run.

I DO have a problem with an public animal shelter that does NOT assume good faith. Our Founding Fathers believed our citizens are INNOCENT until proven GUILTY. The current shelter policy assumes a potential pet owner is GUILTY until proven INNOCENT. As a public service department the animal shelter is to serve the public according to our nation's founding principles.

I've adopted a few shelter pets through the years (the last one was about 15 years ago) and 15 years ago the animal shelter required nothing but a deposit to pay for the pet. If you adopted a dog you had to pay for tags. Later the shelter decided to enforce spay/neuter regulations, which I'm all for, as pet over population is a major population especially when it comes to cats.

In practicalities: The current shelter rules would discourage pet adoption. It costs about $100 to adopt a pet from the REDACTED Animal Shelter. Adding to the adoption fee is an application you have to file in order to be approved for adoption. (Another newly added "feature" that wasn't present 15 years ago and again assumes the potential pet owner is GUILTY). Yesterday I checked the REDACTED, our local weekly sales tab, and found a FREE calico cat with kittens. I could have easily adopted the mom cat and babies for FREE. Of course I would pay for spaying/neutering of the cats as I believe in responsible pet ownership.

I'm a devoted pet owner and so much so I've included in my will a donation to our local shelter. I'm thinking about having my will re-written after this episode.

BTW I used to volunteer for our local humane society (which is no more) and part of our volunteering was to visit other animal shelters. Sadly, I saw a litter of kittens euthanized (they were gassed) as no one had adopted them. This happened in REDACTED. I'm all for reasonable and responsible pet ownership.

HERE'S WHAT I'M POSTING HERE AS AN ADDITION TO MY POST ABOVE:

I did some research and discussed with other people who's neutropenia is far worse than mine and I found out I CAN clean a litter box as long as I'm wearing a mask. It's the dust and pathogens that could get me in trouble.

Neutropenia does cause me minor health problems but rarely am I truly ill. I did go through a bout of Strep B over Christmas but I was not hospitalized.

I did have litter box available for my last cat. He arrived at my house as someone dropped him off in my yard. He was and indoor-outdoor cat who mainly stayed inside. He was inside by nightfall though as I did not want him killed or maimed by a bobcat or coyote.

Finally, my favorite litter box is the Littermaid litter box.

Margret · May 3, 2015

So sorry to hear about Tails. It hurts like hell, doesn't it? Take all the time you need to grieve; you'll know when you're ready for a new cat.

I think you may be missing something about these contracts. A lot of people adopt animals without really planning to care for them -- I don't understand why, but it is true. The better shelters put a lot of time and effort into caring for the cats they receive and getting them matched up with the right humans; it's understandable that they don't want their efforts to go to waste.

As for breeders, they really don't assume that you're adopting a pet. They assume that if you want a purebred you're planning to show it, or to breed it. Buying a purebred animal is an expensive proposition -- it's natural to think that the buyer has some financial motivation, especially since abandoned kittens are a dime a dozen. Why they assume that you would risk your expensive investment by allowing it to be eaten by coyotes, I don't know, but, well, people get all sorts of strange ideas.

When we got Jasmine, we had people living with us who had already gotten one cat killed because they believed that cats need to be allowed to roam free. We insisted on signing an agreement that Jasmine would be an indoor-only cat, so that we could tell these freeloaders that we were contractually obligated to keep her inside. And we followed it up with the assurance that if this cat was let out while they were living with us, we would call the sheriff and have them arrested for animal abuse. It worked; we still have Jasmine, and the freeloaders are now gone (though it took an eviction notice to get rid of them).

If you're uncomfortable protecting yourself with a mask when you need to clean litter, you might consider building a cat run so the cat can do her business outside, without becoming an indoor/outdoor cat.

Margret

jenpriester · May 3, 2015

What about the cat genie or scoop free litter box? You don't have to touch cat poop in either

Margret · May 3, 2015

We had an early version of the Scoop Free; it never worked well.

As for the Cat Genie, my first instinct is always to look at reviews. On Amazon, while the positive reviews outnumber the negative reviews, there are still a very large number of negative reviews. I started with the "most helpful" negative review, and found it to be very negative. This guy has had to get the company to replace his Cat Genie four times! And each time he does, his cats become more reluctant to use it. He finally trashed it entirely. See http://www.amazon.com/CatGenie-Self..._pr_viewpnt_rgt?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=critical.

If you're going to go with any kind of self-cleaning litter box, you need to be sure in advance that it's going to work properly, what with cats being fussy about their commodes. And you need to have a backup plan; increasing complexity means increasing the number of things that can go wrong, and I haven't heard any news stories about Murphie's law being repealed.

Margret

jenpriester · May 4, 2015

Sorry to hear your experience was so bad! I have two scoop free's and have had them for 3 1/2 years now with no problems whatsoever for my two kitties

mdaisy · May 6, 2015

Margret said:
So sorry to hear about Tails. It hurts like hell, doesn't it? Take all the time you need to grieve; you'll know when you're ready for a new cat.

I think you may be missing something about these contracts. A lot of people adopt animals without really planning to care for them -- I don't understand why, but it is true. The better shelters put a lot of time and effort into caring for the cats they receive and getting them matched up with the right humans; it's understandable that they don't want their efforts to go to waste.

As for breeders, they really don't assume that you're adopting a pet. They assume that if you want a purebred you're planning to show it, or to breed it. Buying a purebred animal is an expensive proposition -- it's natural to think that the buyer has some financial motivation, especially since abandoned kittens are a dime a dozen. Why they assume that you would risk your expensive investment by allowing it to be eaten by coyotes, I don't know, but, well, people get all sorts of strange ideas.

When we got Jasmine, we had people living with us who had already gotten one cat killed because they believed that cats need to be allowed to roam free. We insisted on signing an agreement that Jasmine would be an indoor-only cat, so that we could tell these freeloaders that we were contractually obligated to keep her inside. And we followed it up with the assurance that if this cat was let out while they were living with us, we would call the sheriff and have them arrested for animal abuse. It worked; we still have Jasmine, and the freeloaders are now gone (though it took an eviction notice to get rid of them).

If you're uncomfortable protecting yourself with a mask when you need to clean litter, you might consider building a cat run so the cat can do her business outside, without becoming an indoor/outdoor cat.

Margret

Margaret,

The problem is our local public animal shelter developed rules outside of the approved city municipal code. If the changes in city code was put to a public vote that means public input was involved. There was no public input. Also, there is nothing in the city muni code about keeping cats leashed or indoors. There is a leash law for dogs.

I'm not going to get into the debate about indoor/outdoor cat ownership. Each owner has to accept the responsibility about how they plan to manage their cat. As Tails arrived as an inddor/outdoor cat, he stayed one with some caveats. He was brought into the house before dark (when most accidents happen) and given a litter box, if he needed to go potty.

Tails also received any needed vet care including rabies shots. All my cats, sometimes at great cost, received the vet care they needed. I can remember paying a $1,500 vet bill one month as I foolishly adopted a cat from the shelter who had the calci virus. I had her seen by the vet, before bringing her into the household, and the vet said the cat was safe to introduce to my other cats at home. I knew nothing about the calci virus and I believed the vet. Bad idea. We probably spent close to $10,000 in vet bills for all our cats. My favorite cat suffered the most as he later lost most of his teeth and developed kidney disease after his exposure to the calci virus. He lived to be almost 16 as I spent many nights trying to feed him by hand and keep him hydrated.

I do agree there are some pet owners who do not care for their animals, but that decision should be made on evidence. Until then a pet owner is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

momto3cats · May 6, 2015

MDaisy said:
I do agree there are some pet owners who do not care for their animals, but that decision should be made on evidence. Until then a pet owner is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

The problem with this is, "evidence" would be a sick, injured or dead cat. Breeders and shelters try to protect the cats they adopt out by putting restrictions in place to prevent those things from happening.

Margret · May 6, 2015

1) It's "Margret," not "MargAret," and yes, I have actually received a birthday card from my mother with my name spelled wrong, so don't feel too bad.

2) Okay, so they changed their rules, and there's not much you can do about it. Be as incensed at them as you like, but figure out the necessary strategies to deal with it in advance. You're not planning to adopt from the local shelter, anyway, so their adoption rules make no real difference to you. If you buy a cat or kitten from a breeder, you will have to sign an indoor-only guarantee, like it or not, and, frankly, this is nothing new. If you try to argue with them about it, they'll just conclude that you're irresponsible and refuse to sell to you. So don't argue with them. Sign the agreement and smile. And then do what you have to do to live up to the agreement without hurting yourself. Basically, this is your only option, other than signing and then going back on your word, which I gather that you don't want to do. Also, if you're adopting from a breeder, you're not going to get a cat like Tails who has always been an indoor-outdoor cat; you'll get a cat who's had very little exposure to the outdoors and has no idea how to take care of him or her self, so you'd probably prefer to keep it indoors where it will be safe.

My Sweet Thing was an indoor-outdoor cat. She always had been, and was perfectly safe outdoors. But we didn't get her from a shelter, a breeder, or anyone else. She adopted us, as I assume your Tails adopted you. And when she died it was from kidney failure, not coyotes. When we bought this house, we had a very expensive cat door installed for her, one that was lockable, and after her death we always kept it locked. Floppy would come to us and say, "You know, this is a cat door. But it seems to be broken. I can't fix it because I don't have thumbs, but I bet you could," and we'd look at it and say, "Huh. It seems to be broken, and we don't know how to fix it." (Lying through our teeth.) So Floppy was a thirteen year old indoor only cat when the freeloaders moved in with us, attempted to remove the cat door to avoid getting paint on it (while painting our house behind our backs, which it didn't need), and broke it and replaced it with a cat flap. And told us that it's wrong to keep cats from roaming (they had never had a cat), and when Floppy didn't come home they had the further gall to tell me that she'd "run away" because she was disgusted by the amount of clutter in my house. (Floppy considered clutter to be a fun obstacle course, BTW.) They "cleaned" by throwing things away, including several irreplaceable items.

So, no, I am in no way criticising you for allowing Tails to continue as an indoor-outdoor cat. He was up to the challenge, as was Sweet Thing. But I think you can understand why I'm a bit touchy on the subject, and why I believe that most cats are better off being indoor-only cats.

Margret

mdaisy · May 6, 2015

I

momto3cats said:
The problem with this is, "evidence" would be a sick, injured or dead cat. Breeders and shelters try to protect the cats they adopt out by putting restrictions in place to prevent those things from happening.

I have clearly stated this is a public animal shelter. The provisions for adopting a cat maybe honorable but were put in place against city municipal code and without public input. Also, the "requirement" of adopting out indoor only cats is against the current city muni code.

I also believe all people are innocent until proven guilty. This is what our nation was founded upon and has served us well for many years.

What private breeders do is their business as long as it's legal.

mdaisy · May 6, 2015

Margret said:
1) It's "Margret," not "MargAret," and yes, I have actually received a birthday card from my mother with my name spelled wrong, so don't feel too bad.

2) Okay, so they changed their rules, and there's not much you can do about it. Be as incensed at them as you like, but figure out the necessary strategies to deal with it in advance. You're not planning to adopt from the local shelter, anyway, so their adoption rules make no real difference to you. If you buy a cat or kitten from a breeder, you will have to sign an indoor-only guarantee, like it or not, and, frankly, this is nothing new. If you try to argue with them about it, they'll just conclude that you're irresponsible and refuse to sell to you. So don't argue with them. Sign the agreement and smile. And then do what you have to do to live up to the agreement without hurting yourself. Basically, this is your only option, other than signing and then going back on your word, which I gather that you don't want to do. Also, if you're adopting from a breeder, you're not going to get a cat like Tails who has always been an indoor-outdoor cat; you'll get a cat who's had very little exposure to the outdoors and has no idea how to take care of him or her self, so you'd probably prefer to keep it indoors where it will be safe.

My Sweet Thing was an indoor-outdoor cat. She always had been, and was perfectly safe outdoors. But we didn't get her from a shelter, a breeder, or anyone else. She adopted us, as I assume your Tails adopted you. And when she died it was from kidney failure, not coyotes. When we bought this house, we had a very expensive cat door installed for her, one that was lockable, and after her death we always kept it locked. Floppy would come to us and say, "You know, this is a cat door. But it seems to be broken. I can't fix it because I don't have thumbs, but I bet you could," and we'd look at it and say, "Huh. It seems to be broken, and we don't know how to fix it." (Lying through our teeth.) So Floppy was a thirteen year old indoor only cat when the freeloaders moved in with us, attempted to remove the cat door to avoid getting paint on it (while painting our house behind our backs, which it didn't need), and broke it and replaced it with a cat flap. And told us that it's wrong to keep cats from roaming (they had never had a cat), and when Floppy didn't come home they had the further gall to tell me that she'd "run away" because she was disgusted by the amount of clutter in my house. (Floppy considered clutter to be a fun obstacle course, BTW.) They "cleaned" by throwing things away, including several irreplaceable items.

So, no, I am in no way criticising you for allowing Tails to continue as an indoor-outdoor cat. He was up to the challenge, as was Sweet Thing. But I think you can understand why I'm a bit touchy on the subject, or why I believe that most cats are better off being indoor-only cats.

Margret

Margret I am so sorry for misspelling your name. Please forgive my error.

As to changing the rules: A city can not change the rules without public notification and a public hearing. The council members then can approve or deny the change in city code. Changes in city code can not be done by city employees nor can volunteers attempt to enforce the "rules" as they wish to see them.

I'm a retired city reporter and am well aware of how our local jurisdiction creates city laws.

Finally, whether a cat is inddoor or outdoor that's up to the cat owner to decide as long as the pet owner is willing to accept the risk. Tails came to me as a indoor/outdoor cat and lived a long healthy life. I wish his life would have been longer but me keeping him inside would not have helped as cancer is what killed him.

Margret · May 6, 2015

jenpriester said:
Sorry to hear your experience was so bad! I have two scoop free's and have had them for 3 1/2 years now with no problems whatsoever for my two kitties

Glad to hear that they work better now. I believe I mentioned that mine was one of the earliest ones. (I hate being an alpha tester.)

Margret

Margret · May 6, 2015

No problem on the misspelling; I feel obligated to correct it, but I do understand when it happens. I once ruined 3 (!) birthday cards to my sister-in-law, Barbara, because I kept spelling her name "Barbra."

Okay, so they changed the rules illegally. Do you intend to do something about it? I suppose you could sue, but it would likely get expensive. You could adopt a cat from them and then make them take you to court to enforce the rules, but you don't want to adopt a cat from them. Your best bet would probably be starting a petition against them, but I've no idea how well that would work; as a former city reporter you probably have a better handle on that than I do.

Please note that I don't mean this as some kind of challenge to you; I'm just asking.

Margret

mdaisy · May 6, 2015

Margret said:
No problem on the misspelling; I feel obligated to correct it, but I do understand when it happens. I once ruined 3 (!) birthday cards to my sister-in-law, Barbara, because I kept spelling her name "Barbra."

Okay, so they changed the rules illegally. Do you intend to do something about it? I suppose you could sue, but it would likely get expensive. You could adopt a cat from them and then make them take you to court to enforce the rules, but you don't want to adopt a cat from them. Your best bet would probably be starting a petition against them, but I've no idea how well that would work; as a former city reporter you probably have a better handle on that than I do.

Please note that I don't mean this as some kind of challenge to you; I'm just asking.

Margret

I've already taken appropriate action. Old, retired reporters still have contacts :-)

I know someone named Barbara not Barbra. The name can be spelled either way :-) :-)

Margret · May 6, 2015

MDaisy said:
I've already taken appropriate action. Old, retired reporters still have contacts :-)

I know someone named Barbara not Barbra. The name can be spelled either way :-) :-)

Yes, I just bet you still have contacts!

Yes, but Barbara is still more common, just as Margaret is more common, and Barbara is, in fact, my sister-in-law's name. She would have understood the misspelling, but it would have given the birthday card a bit of unpleasantness, which was certainly not my intention. Barbara is really into cards, and I really like her. My brother's first marriage was rather disastrous, and I'm glad his second marriage worked out so well.

Margret

handsome kitty · May 11, 2015

I agree adoption forms are daunting and scary. The pure breed rescues even go into specifics like grooming and experience with long haired cats. I also suspect the people at shelters and rescues see the worst treatment of animals people inflict. It is amazing how many people I hear about who just let their cats go because they are moving and can't/don't want to take them without even trying to rehome them. And these are indoor only cats suddenly left outdoors to fend for themselves. They wait nearby for weeks and months waiting for their owners to return. Even reading the forums here about neighbors who have cats and do not take proper care of them is eye opening. Not to mention how many cats I see on petfinder.com with missing eyes. Someone must look out for their welfare and it is nice to know the shelters are making some effort to find good homes and not just giving them to people who may not take care of the animal.

I am sorry you lost Tails. Being a new cat owner I can't imagine how hard it is. I break down in tears when mine get sick. When you are ready you should look at rescues who foster their cats. You can even foster a cat to see if you would like to adopt it. The forms are different than adoption forms. Less insulting.

Willowy · May 11, 2015

It's not illegal for a city shelter to refuse to adopt to homes that will allow the cats outdoors even if there is no local leash laws for cats. They don't want to put more free-roaming cats on the streets, but they also don't want to make it illegal because enforcement costs a lot.

Anyway, if you want an indoor-outdoor cat who already knows how to take care of himself, try taking in a stray or adopting from an ad on craigslist or local bulletin board ads. If you have farmers in the area, maybe a farm cat would be good. But the majority of purebred cats are unsuited to outdoor living and even with the breeds that might be OK, they've been raised indoors and the breeder isn't going to want them outside unsupervised. It is unfortunate that you had such a bad experience with calicivirus but any cat who's been outdoors has certainly been exposed already.

misty8723 · May 17, 2015

I'm sorry about your Tails. It is very hard to get over the pain of loss.

I have to say, though, don't think you will necessarily avoid calicivirus by adopting from a reputable breeder. I adopted Darcy from a no-kill rescue shelter. Not long after we brought her home, she began not feeling well, so we took her to the vet. Long story short, it was FIP, which is a mutation of the calicivirus. At the same time we were going through that with Darcy, our vet told us about another family who were in the same situation we were in. They had also lost a beloved cat and wanted a companion for their resident cat. They adopted from a reputable breeder - and this cat also got FIP around the same time Darcy did. I learned more about calicivirus and FIP than I ever wanted to know - but one thing that seems to be pretty universally accepted: most cats are exposed to it at some time in their lives.

Also, if having a cat will endanger your health if you keep it indoors - why not get a dog instead?

I'm broken hearted and need to vent

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