Cats STILL not getting along, 4 months

Hey guys.  You might remember Sasha and Kyubi from http://www.thecatsite.com/t/290242/integration-thread-for-kyubi-and-sasha-long. 

Basically, Sasha is the resident cat.  She is spayed, in good health, 8 years old, and has been a single cat all her life.  

We are trying to introduce Kyubi.  He is neutered, healthy, and about 11 months old.  

Kyubi is very playful and seems to really want to get along with Sasha.  Sasha is extremely territorial and hisses/growls/chases.  We've gone through all of the slow intro steps including separate rooms, scent swapping, visual familiarization, play therapy, etc, etc. We have even gone back to repeat steps.  

I've tried calming liquids and Feliway.  

We are stuck on visual.  Anytime Sasha sees Kyubi she will at least hiss if not worse.  Do you guys have any advice?  I know it can take up to a year or longer but 4 months has felt pretty long.  Kyubi still sleeps in his safe room alone and they both take turns being in the main space during the day.  

We will be moving in a few months.  Will being in a new apartment even out the playing field?  Sasha has been at our current apartment before Kyubi so maybe she built up territorialism.  If things don't get better in 4 months I might ask the vet to prescribe some calming medicine.  Finding new homes for either cat is out of the question.   

Any advice will be welcome.  Thanks.

I know it can be frustrating and it truly upsets the household flow.  It took my two one solid year.  The new kitty had a room of his own for a year.  He did get time out every day, but slept there every night. 

Have you tried swapping the cats out ?  I mean putting one cat in a closed room and allowing the other cat time to be out safely.  Then switching.  I know it's a pain, but it really helped my two.  Do you have vertical space?  I have one cats that likes it up high (tree dweller) and one that prefers not to be high at all (bush dweller).  This does help.  Cat trees or vertical shelving.  Jackson Galaxy has lots of ideas on his site under Catification. 

Have you tried a large dog crate?  Put one cat inside and cover the cage on 3 sides.  Allow the other cat to sniff.  Offer yummy rewards the entire visit.  Plain cooked chicken or tuna.  Something extra special.  Keep the visit short, just a few minutes.  Then try to switch cats.  I only had one cat that would happily go inside the crate.  Yet that was ok.  We did this 3x a day building up the time and gradually taking the sheet off. 

We also would play on either side of the baby gate.  One person with each cat.  Get a shoe string and play through the gate.  Once again lots of chicken.  You want them to associate each other with something yummy and happy.  Keep the visit short.  You want to end on a positive note if possible.  Do this a few times a day.

Finally, keep your stress as low as you can.  The cats really pick up on it.  I was a mess.  I would cry and be so upset with all of the fighting and keeping the cats away from each other.  Once I decided to calm myself, it really helped.  Some days I just had to let my husband handle it.  I decided that I had to do what was necessary as there was no way I would give the cats up.  I had to make this work.  Yet work it takes.  The cats will not get better on their own.  It takes you working with them over and over multiple times each day. 

I know 4 months is a long time, but in cat time, it's really not.  Try to find a bright spot and work there.  Short short visits or peaks are best.  Then build up. 

Have you tried a screen door? 

I am thinking of you as I remember it well.  My two hated each other.  Now they are best buds.  It's amazing.  The daily attacks here were brutal.  Keep your stress low and keep your chin up!!!

@ShadowsRescue  Thank you for continuously and patiently advising me every time I want to freak out.  It really reassures me to know that others had difficulties and eventually succeeded. I just hoped to be one of the lucky pet parents who had cats that just got along right away!  

Yes, I do swap the cats out.  Kyubi does seem to like his safe room since he takes refuge there when he's spooked, but he also seems to really want to come out and be with us.  It makes me sad to have to put him away at night but I know it's better than living outside on a busy street.  The cats take turns being out with us during the day but Kyubi always sleeps in his room.  Sasha doesn't seem to mind his scent but does growl/ hiss at his door if he is making noise on the other side.

I have a cat tree and neither of them use it very often.  I guess they're both bush dwellers.

I've tried the crate and it has worked fine but I haven't been very consistent with it.  I'm working 2 jobs right now and when I am home, sometimes I'm just too tired.  I know I should try to do this more often.  

I haven't tried a screen door as I hoped they would adjust soon.  However, if they're still at odds in 4 months at the new apartment, I'll probably give it a go.  

Thanks so much again for always taking the time to answer my questions!!!!  Hopefully I can post a success update in a few months.  

I have nothing to add to shadowsrescue 's excellent advice. Just keep the faith, be patient and don't give up. It will come right in time. I feel bad shutting my girl in her room at night too, but I think I mind far more than she does. I crack the door as soon as I get up each morning (I'm lucky that my situation isn't as volatile as yours..We just have two big dogs in the mix too), and Asha takes quite some time - usually at least an hour or two - to surface. That tells me that she's fine with the living arrangements. I'm sure Kyubi is happy with his setup too. Don't feel bad for him...even a single room is the height of luxury after the big bad world outside.

I'll tell you MY experience, just for the heck of it.  My female was 9 years old when we took in TWO 5 month old males (yes, we were completely insane )  The boys stayed together in the safe room. 

We did everything by the book, including having a large dog crate that we put the boys in several times a day for "viewing" while everyone ate "yummies", etc.  We also had Feliway Plug-in in every room in the house. 

We'd put treats on either side of the closed door for all cats to eat really close to each other yet not be able to attack each other .   Of course, this was after the scent swapping, which we continued to do all the time we were trying to integrate.  We'd put the resident female in their safe room and then let them wander the house, then switch them back, etc, etc, etc. 

This went on for five long frustrating months and our female would continue to literally attack the safe room door whenever she was near it.  I mean growling and throwing herself at the door type attacking.  Naturally, I was inconsolable because I loved them all and there was no way I could give any of them up, but the living conditions were not  optimal.  The odd thing was, though, she would not try to attack them when they were in their cage, or even when they had short supervised visits (we were even at the stage of them having 5 minute sessions all "free", she would just hiss at them and try to escape them.   SO...finally one night I told my husband that was it. " Let's just open the door to the safe room and see what happens", because nothing seemed to be changing at all...we were at a standstill.  So we did.  And at was very peaceful.  In our house, apparently our resident cat simply didn't appreciate being locked out of that room!  She also didn't want these little invaders around, but she has grown to accept them.  They will never be best buddies, but at least we don't have cat fights

It's funny because she gets along pretty well with one of the boys, and doesn't really seem to like the other one.  Yet we usually find her sleeping in the window seat with the one she doesn't like

Oh, I forgot one trick that I don't think has been mentioned that I STILL use when any of mine seem to get upset with each other, even now, and that's to take their brush and brush them about the head and shoulders or sides for a few strokes, then immediately brush the other cat, them return immediately to the first cat and do it again.  It transfer the scents back and forth.  This is quite helpful. 

I think it's been 9 years since we got Sara and she still doesn't get along with Maple, or Lucky usually for that matter, haha. They tolerate each other, but by no means are they buds. Still plenty of hissing going on. Kinda like young siblings really.

They all know they are loved, they are all happy, and that's really the important thing. 

Aw, thanks for all the stories and advice you guys.  I'd LOVE for Sasha and Kyubi to tolerate each other.  I'm not even thinking of cuddling at this point.  Haha

I guess I just need to be more consistent on exposing them to each other.  I'm glad to know that 4 months isn't really all that long.  And thanks so much for the encouragement.  

I do have the Feliway spray, but again, I keep forgetting to spray it all around the house.  I was looking at the plugins but read that they can overheat and be a fire hazard.  Even if it's unlikely, I still don't feel safe using it.  I'll try to be better with spraying.  

Thanks @mrsgreenjeens  for the brushing advice.  That's one trick I haven't tried yet.  Also, I did try the whole "let's just open the door" thing out of desperation and it didn't work out well.  Back to baby steps then! 

I just wanted to post an update about Sasha and Kyubi.  So we moved apartments in August, which was around the 8 month mark of the kitties being together.

First of all, I noticed that their relationship changed when we put all our stuff in storage.  We lived in the apt for a week without any our stuff.  For some reason, Kyubi seemed more adventurous and Sasha was less aggressive.  My guess is that, although it was the same place, the lack of furniture made it different enough to make it a more neutral territory.  

We then brought them both back to my family's house in another town (about 1 1/2 hour car ride).  Both Sasha and Kyubi had been there before at one point, but never at the same time so it was interesting to see how this would change their dynamics.  Sasha strutted around immediately like she was queen while Kyubi was really scared and hid for a few hours.  After a day, Kyubi would come out and explore and interact with my family, the people who originally brought him in from the streets.  He still hid but would come out when I had food or if it was quiet.  I locked Sasha out of the basement (where they both prefer to hide and spend time) at night so that he could have some peace from her.  Eventually, they were both able to spend time in the basement a few feet away from each other peacefully which was the best I had ever seen them together. 

After being at this house for a week, we went back to the town that I usually live in and moved into a new apt.  (We had a complicated moving situation.  I know it was rough on the kitties to move around so much but we had no choice. )  We kept both of them in the bedroom for about 2 days to help them calm down and get used to the new place.  Cue Kyubi hiding and Sasha strutting around.  There was a lot of hissing but they both lived.  We made sure that neither of them got to explore the remainder of the apt alone because we didn't want to allow one of them to establish territory.  Eventually, we let them both out permanently.  Some hissing, yowling, and chasing. (Sasha chases Kyubi and it sounds like someone is being murdered, but out of the 10 months they've been together both have only sustained 1 papercut-like scratch each, mostly Sasha doesn't actually make physical contact). But overall, they seem to have figured it out.  Kyubi has claimed the cat tree, bedroom closet, and the bathroom while Sasha prefers the couch, the cat beds, and the carriers.  A few times I even woke up to both of them sleeping with me (Kyubi by my feet and Sasha next to my head).  I find them together a lot just staring at each other peacefully.  Kyubi is a lot more adventurous and he doesn't seem to be fearful.  He'll tiptoe around Sasha, but he isn't the terrified, miserable kitty that I was afraid he might be.  Sasha tolerates a lot more although she still enjoys showing him who's boss. Side note: since Kyubi can jump baby gates while Sasha can't, we leave up a baby gate in the bedroom so that he can escape from her when he wants to. 

Anyways, I just wanted to share this ending with anyone who might be discouraged about their cat introduction!  They might not be cuddling but I'm grateful that we can comfortably leave them alone together. My advice to anyone who has a grumpy, stubborn resident cat is to change the furniture around so that hopefully the established territory is thrown into question.  If you have made it this far, thanks for reading!  Also, a special thanks to all the patient, reassuring people we have complained to on The Cat Site!!    

Great update

It just proves that they don't have to be best buds to peacefully coexist

This is such good news!!  Patience does pay off.  My guess is that they will continue to evolve.  I remember the tip toeing state.  My resident cat, Jake would tip toe any time he had to pass Marvin ( the stray I took in).  Jake would constantly be looking over his shoulder.

One thing I found was that there were "hot spots" in the house.  These were areas where the cats seemed to be afraid or worried of an attack.  I found my plugging in Feliway diffusers or using the Comfort zone spray, it really helped.  The diffusers each lasted 4-6 weeks and I could tell within a day or two when they were empty. 

Thanks so much for the update.

@ShadowsRescue  @Columbine  Thank you for all the encouragement and advice!!   I will continue to update if any miracles occur and they have a breakthrough. 

Hnmmm... rearranging the furniture .... that's something I haven't tried. I will have to consider this for Sinbad and Tempest.

Losna said:

 
Hnmmm... rearranging the furniture .... that's something I haven't tried. I will have to consider this for Sinbad and Tempest.

Click to expand...

If you do, you should report back.  That would be an interesting experiment.