Help / Advice For my Trapping Dilemma

Hello  I am new here but I'm excited to find a community to come to to discuss and find advice for my feral kitty colony.  Here is the situation:

Penney, the mother of all the cats, is pregnant for the 6th time since I started helping care of these cats.  There are 4 other adults (they're only about 7 months old, but I will consider them adults because they can reproduce) at this point.  I only know that one is male and one is female and the other 2 I am unsure about.

Penney is pregnant again and I am trying to trap her.  She is very smart and no one has been able to trap her in the past.  That's my first problem.  My second problem is that I obviously don't want to trap the 7month old female (Sephora) because she has her own little of 3 week old kittens.  I would be happy to trap any of the other 3 or Penney, and my shelter is going to work with me for a solution for Penney and TNR any of the others.

Yesterday I trapped Sephora, the young mother, for the 2nd time this week.  She isn't the brightest.  I'm worried about continuing to try trapping because she struggled so much before I arrived to free her, that she'd pulled the towel (I had the trap covered) inside the cage halfway and there were little blood specs on it.  She appeared to be fine, it was not a lot of blood loss, but she was definitely fatigued.  When I freed her she ran to where her kittens are.  I check the trap often, I know she can't be away from her litter very long.

I have to think that I won't keep trapping the same young mother cat, she has to have learned by now to stay away from the trap....I hope.  I really want to catch Penney, the older mother who is pregnant, before more kittens are born in the "wild".  What would you do?  I don't want to cause harm to any of them and I really don't want to traumatize the young mother cat if she by chance falls for the trap a third time.  I'm torn.  I really want to catch all of the others, and in another month or month and a half, catch the one I have already caught a couple times.  Her kittens should be easy to find and catch when they're a couple months old I assume.  

There are a few of us involved with taking care of this cat colony, but they do live at an outdoor shopping mall and the mall is going to take matter into their own hands if they keep multiplying.  So again, what would you do?  Should I keep trying and just release the young mother if I keep catching her instead of the others?

EdieAndEdiesMom said:

 
Hello  I am new here but I'm excited to find a community to come to to discuss and find advice for my feral kitty colony.  Here is the situation:

Penney, the mother of all the cats, is pregnant for the 6th time since I started helping care of these cats.  There are 4 other adults (they're only about 7 months old, but I will consider them adults because they can reproduce) at this point.  I only know that one is male and one is female and the other 2 I am unsure about.

Penney is pregnant again and I am trying to trap her.  She is very smart and no one has been able to trap her in the past.  That's my first problem.  My second problem is that I obviously don't want to trap the 7month old female (Sephora) because she has her own little of 3 week old kittens.  I would be happy to trap any of the other 3 or Penney, and my shelter is going to work with me for a solution for Penney and TNR any of the others.

Yesterday I trapped Sephora, the young mother, for the 2nd time this week.  She isn't the brightest.  I'm worried about continuing to try trapping because she struggled so much before I arrived to free her, that she'd pulled the towel (I had the trap covered) inside the cage halfway and there were little blood specs on it.  She appeared to be fine, it was not a lot of blood loss, but she was definitely fatigued.  When I freed her she ran to where her kittens are.  I check the trap often, I know she can't be away from her litter very long.

I have to think that I won't keep trapping the same young mother cat, she has to have learned by now to stay away from the trap....I hope.  I really want to catch Penney, the older mother who is pregnant, before more kittens are born in the "wild".  What would you do?  I don't want to cause harm to any of them and I really don't want to traumatize the young mother cat if she by chance falls for the trap a third time.  I'm torn.  I really want to catch all of the others, and in another month or month and a half, catch the one I have already caught a couple times.  Her kittens should be easy to find and catch when they're a couple months old I assume.  

There are a few of us involved with taking care of this cat colony, but they do live at an outdoor shopping mall and the mall is going to take matter into their own hands if they keep multiplying.  So again, what would you do?  Should I keep trying and just release the young mother if I keep catching her instead of the others?

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Do you know exactly where the nest is?  If so, could be an option you make take two flies at once, and if you trap the young mom, you immediately go and collect the kittens.  Take them home to you, and reunite the mom with them.  Everything prepared, including a Feliway diffuser, calming music, etc....

This way, you will be able to foster the kittens from the beginning.   And if God so will, perhaps also this rather wild mom may be enticed into fostering...  She is alfter all still very young.

Good luck!

Unfortunately the nest is under a shipping container (where they always have their kittens.  Its the big metal type of container that goes on a freight train.  The gap between the bottom of the container and the concrete is only about 6 inches or so, so they’re in a spot that no one can get to.  I have 2 kittens from a previous litter that I caught at 4 months old (they 1 year now) and they acclimated to domestic life SO fast.  This family of cats wants to be people kitties, they’re cuddly by nature and want to trust, but they’re still feral.  Unfortunately for now I think I have to try to trap the others in the colony and the original mother who is currently pregnant.  I will have to try to gather up the 3 week old kittens when they;re old enough to start coming out and walking outside of the container (the last little did this around 7 weeks or so, and I stated feeding them just outside the container).  I’ll post Penney, the pregnant feral cat who’s at the top of my “catch” list.  She’s becoming very trusting, yesterday she let me pet her!

These are the two I kept that I caught from the earlier litter.  I caught them at 4 months old, they just turned 1 year old last week  I love them to death.

UPDATE!  I found the kittens AND was able to tap mama.  I'm fostering them all right now and in just the 2 days I've had mama she has almost completely warmed up to people.  She hisses as a warming when anyone enters the room, but if we sit nicely and let her come to us she is very sweet and LOVES to be scratched and petted!  I'm so happy.  Kittens are only 4.5-5 weeks old but I have homes lined up for almost all of them when they're ready to go in a few weeks.  Looking for a home for mama too.  Originally I was going to TNR her but she's too sweet, I think she wants to be a people's cat.  Here's some pics

GREAT photos (you a photographer?) - and happy ending (which we don't get to read often enough!!!!). So happy to see that!

Sounds like mama wasn't a true feral - - she'd never let you get close like that if so. Glad you're able to provide such a happy ending for her too! To find that many homes as kitten season begins - I want your secret!

Continued luck with all of them - your gorgeous ones included!

Hehe thanks, I do photography on the side, but I'm not a professional

They are all feral but I have been taking care of this colony for about 1 year.  This mama is only about 7 months old, poor girl.  She knows I bring the food though...it only took 3 days before she let me begin to touch her head.  She's adjusted super well and I am going to keep her when her kittens go to their homes.  I have her older brother & sister that I caught when they were 4 months old.  I've been TNRing as many cats as I can from this colony so they stop having litters...I still have 2 males and 2 females (one is pregnant right now) to go!

Great that you got young mama and kittens (so so cute)

As for Penney - would a drop trap be an option? I've never used one, but I've seen them suggested for resolutely hard to trap cats. Good luck with getting her. It's a great thing you're doing for that colony....seems like they know it too ,

Super job! And welcome to the wonderful world of feral cat caretakers!

I am just going to focus on drop traps for a minute, since they aren't talked about much here, and they are a fantastic help in managing a feral colony. I honestly don't know what I would do without them.

My colony consists of about 40 cats. I have been caring for them for 16+ years. The woman who started the colony died, and I took over.

In the beginning of working on a feral colony, humane traps work when you just want to catch anyone and everyone and don't much care who you catch.

But, when you start dealing with Mom's like you are, it becomes more complicated, and that is where the drop traps become invaluable.

I can give you the name of the best drop traps and where to get them if you want to Private Message me.

I use a drop trap at every feeding station every day because the colony I manage is located in a open area that surrounds my house, so I don't need to worry about someone taking the traps.

I pry it open so that all of the cats at each feeding station must eat from under it. That way, they don't even think twice about going under one. Then if I need to trap, all I have to do is feed and drop the trap over them the second they go in. Doesn't even matter if a few are trapped at once, because once in, I can select the cat I want and guide him/her out.

But, in your case, since you are at a shopping mall, you can't leave the cage unattended (by the way, I wouldn't ever trap without watching over the trap. It is one of the most difficult, boring and frustrating parts of trapping ferals, but they can injure themselves, as you learned, when they panic. Someone else could also open the trap, or take it with the cat in it, if you are not watching over it.) 

With a drop trap, you can set it up easily and use a pull cord that is as long as you need it to be, so that you can still see the cage and know when to drop it, and yet be far enough away that the cats won't even notice you.

I will take some pictures for you and post them later to day so you can get an idea of what a drop trap is, and how it works.

When I have a Mom with babies, and I can find the babies, I can put the babies under the drop trap (in an area very close to where Mom left them), then wait until she finds them and goes under the trap to get them. When everyone is safely under the trap I pull the cord, and hurray, I have the whole family!

Is there any way you could slide a net on a frame (also another super good piece of equipment to have when working with feral cats, I can tell you where and how to get them too) and gently pull the little ones out from under the container? I'll take a picture of that too, so you can see what I am talking about.

Speaking of pictures, your fur balls are absolutely adorable!!! OMG, aren't they just the best thing in the whole world???

You are a great photographer. Maybe you could make some money to pay for cat food by taking animal pictures at shelters! You have a talent for it.

Okay, I better go and get started on pictures for you. I probably won't post again for another 3 or 4 hours, or evening on the West Coast.

Hehe, thank you for the photo compliments.  I do actually volunteer for my local shelter for pictures and care, but I try to get other jobs for extra cash.  We do have a drop trap but I own a business and work very full time so drop traps are difficult since they take time and attention.  We did use one to try to trap this mother, but she didn't fall for it.  Her kittens were inside but she figured out how to stretch her way halfway in, grab one, and run away with it.  Don't worry I got the kitten.  He's the most rambunctious of the litter, we call him sick (original, I know) because of his little white feet.

I trap only when I can check hourly, but thats the best I can do.  The mall is very close to my work but I do not have unlimited time to watch so i do my best.  We have a crazy lady here who wants to feed the cats but doesn't care that we want to trap them and doesn't want to help.  I guess she just wants to keep feeding them to they make tons and tons of babies and it gets out of control.  I am trying ti fix it before we get there.  On our (relatively small) list of colony cats I have these toy still catch:  dark tabby (young male), 2 siamese (don't know if they're male or female), and one mama, the mama of them all, who is PREGNANT!  I want to get her before she has babies but she is totally trap smart!  She is the one in my post 2 weeks ago who is sniffing my hand and letting me touch her head.  She has gotten very comfortable with light contact and very smart about our traps.  I don't know that we will ever be able to get her unless I scruff her and chance an injury (I got a bad one today from her baby, the mama of the kittens I'm fostering).

I took the kittens and mama to the vet today.  The dr. said the kittens are beautiful and healthy and that mama is not as underweight as I think (i can feel her bones!!!)( but he says it's just because she's still nursing older kittens and that she's in very good shape as far as muscles go and she will gain weight when they wean.  Kittens got wormed and vaccinated.  I was only going to snap test mama but she flipped out and tore the exam room apart (2 framed pictures broken on the ground, everything on the counter scattered everywhere).  We have to noose her and trap her in a net, cover her in a towel, then they advised that I just have her spayed and put under now (they would do all the tests they need at the same time) because the kittens are old enough to wean now.  

I have a good slash in my arm from the incident and i thought mama (Sephora) wouldn't ever trust me again.  I worked so hard on getting her to let me pet her all week while she was in the bathroom with her kittens.  I was SO happy and pleased when I went in (after I let her calm down for 1-2 hours) and sat near her and she let me pet her, then she rolled over as if I should scratch her whole underside.  She still loves me and trusts me and it almost made me cry.  I am going to keep her.  I have homes for 3 of the 7 kittens who I will let go in 1-2 weeks.

We still have to get Penney, the mama of them all (Spehora is only 7-8 months, she's a mama but she's one of Penney's babies that I didn't catch in time).  I don't know how to get her.  I am afraid that if I either scruff her and fail, or throw a blanket/towel on her and try to get her that way, I will ruin the trust she has with me.  I am one of the only people that can touch her.  She doesn't go for the drop trap (it sucks for our trapping purposes that a Chipotle is right near their nest and just about everyone is willing to give them a bite or 2, they're NEVER that hungry!  They live on barbacoa, steak and carnitas!).  Any advice is appreciated.  I have been trying for about 1 year and I have made friends with a couple who run a cat rescue who have been trying for almost 2 years.   We don't know how to get penney.  Should I just chance it and grab her, risk injury (i don't care so much about that...I have a good 7" deep scratch from today....as long as it doesn't hurt so bad I accidentally drop her) or try to throw a blanket on her and grab her...but if I fail she would probably avoid me for a very long time.  She's smarter than we give her credit for.  Argh.  What to do....

First we took the kittens...........


This is me taking a picture of where they were born and living.  That yellow line by my elbow marks about a 4" point in the wall, if they tried to get out of that space I think they would have hurt themselves...........


This was mama (Sephora) checking out the drop trap, kittens inside.  When we took the top of the carrier of so she could see them better, she just stretched inside and tried to take them away.........


Trapped Sephora in the regular humane trap about 20 hours after taking the kittens.  I used the towel they slept on to lure Sephora into the trap and it worked.  When I released her into the room with the kittens (I knew she would lose it so I removed EVERYTHING....except a painting on the wall haha) she went a little nuts.....


This is daddy (we are almost positive due to marking on the kittens) who I trapped and neutered.  We call him Gunner.....


4 days ago, mama settling in.....


And finally some good scratching after 6 days of gentle coaxing .....

These are the last pictures ( and I hope the bleeding arm is not offensive...it isn't that bad)...

She got me while I tried to help the vet catch and hold her for a snap test......


Finally got her into a net and I held the towel over her while they gave her anesthesia, I stayed until she fell asleep, but I felt so terrible that we had to traumatize her again...


And finally, back at home and much more relaxed than I expected her to be.  You can't see her incision her, but she was spayed today and I am beyond surprised that she is trusting me still!!  I'm telling you, this family of cats are the sweetest, most loving cats EVER!

They are all stunning You're doing a wonderful thing for them all. Sephora clearly knows it too. They're all lucky to have found you.

Thank you so much for all that you have done for all of these cats.  You truly are a saint. 

Just noticed this thread now.

Wow, you've done a wonderful job of taking care of those cats! You were really successful with the trapping, it took me months to get the colony I care for all fixed and I actually gave up on a few of the Houdini male cats because they were too smart for me.

I've had some bad scratches too. I don't think they're as bad as bites, which always seem to get infected, but make sure you clean them up, put plenty of antiseptic on them and keep them covered until they scab over.

Beautiful, beautiful cats and kittens. I think you should apply for our Friend of Feral badge, your deserve it.

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/251561/friend-of-ferals-award-badge-apply-here

Well, I didn't get the pictures done because LIFE happened yesterday.

Thought I would check in with you before doing the pictures and good I did.

You are already familiar with drop cages and nets, so you really don't need my pictures.

My gosh, you are doing a terrific job. I am a little worried about your scratches, only since I got a terrible infection once, my doctor was worried I would have to be hospitalized if she couldn't get it cleared up. She used "big gun" antibiotics and it finally cleared, but do watch yours carefully. If you get at all worried about it, please see someone right away. I have since had bites and scratches, some that were bad, but all cleared up with no problems. Apparently it depends alot on the cat.

So I can help you, can you answer a couple of questions? Which trap is Penney least afraid of, do you know?

Is there anyone who can spend time watching the trap? When I say time, I mean lots of it. Like hours. One of the super trappers I  work with here will literally spend all night in her car when she is trying to get a really difficult one. I have learned from her, and I don't know of one cat she hasn't been able to get. In the end, it is not so much the technique, as it is the time spent watching over the trap that does the job.

If you don't know of anyone that can do that, can you afford to pay someone to do it?

What is needed is for someone to be at the trapping site during the times you are pretty sure Penney will show up.

Then, with the trap tied open, and no towel over it (if it is a humane trap) you put in scrumptious food that she cannot resist. Freeze dried chicken, canned tuna, (some people have really good results with canned mackerel since it  is so smelly) or, something from Chipotle (good heavens!! ) that she will go in for. Go back to stage one trapping, i.e. start with food just outside of the cage, moving it a tiny bit further into the trap after each time she eats. Go really slowly. Then, when the food is all the way back in to the far end of the trap, past the trip plate, and she goes in and eats with NO concern, then, and only then, set the trap.

The reason to go really slowly here is to watch over the trap, knowing what time Penny shows up, how she does with the food (i.e. which food seems to draw her in the fastest) and how she seems with her fear of the trap. It is really important to go through this process to catch her. With the really wise feral cats, you have to outsmart them, and the only way to do that it to observe them and know what their patterns are. Also, watching will help you to know when is the best time to set the trap, so that you will catch her.

 You are dong a fantastic job. You deserve gold stars and a medal! But, it seems the cats are rewarding you with their love (which they always do). These feral cats are simply the best. Once you get started with them, it is oh so hard to stop.

I realize from your situation you are in a hurry, and I understand your  wish to get this all done immediately, but sometimes you just have to slow the process down to keep from the cat getting hurt, or yourself. A pregnant feral cat is a dangerous animal. While it is possible you might only get slightly damaged if you try and grab her or throw a towel over her, the down side can be truly serious. If panicked enough she'll go for anything, including your face, eyes, whatever she can get at, and for her, in her panic can injure herself, falling and breaking a leg or running to get away and get run over. 

Hello everyone

Thanks for all the kind words!  I love these kitties so much.  

Thank you supermax for all the tips.  I will definitely take them into account.  I never got her used to the trap (the beginning stages you mentioned), I just went straight to putting tuna at the end, and a couple tiny pieces leading inside.  I hadn't thought of feeding her there while she gets comfortable with it.  It is a slightly difficult situation because there are so many places for her to hide (the main place is beneath a shipping/freight container that is parked in a mall store's loading dock - this is where I always set the trap) but it's not easy to figure out her pattern because she's sneaky and there are so many hiding places!  She is always out at chipotle at lunch time but mall security will not allow me to use the trap anywhere except the loading dock (which I had to also get permission to be in from the store's general manager).  They say anywhere where there are customers as well as anywhere that is landscaped is off limits and they will take my trap away if I trap outside of the loading dock  People feed her so well at Chipotle (who can resist a sweet looking, blind in one eye, hugely pregnant kitty meowing for food???) that I find it hard to get her interested in the trap or the food I try to lure her with.

With her being pregnant, very pregnant, I am mostly afraid of catching her with any of the more extreme methods (like a net or blanket) because I think she will freak out and flail around and I don't want to damage her unborn kittens.  I sat with her during my lunch today (I pretty much eat Chipotle 7 days per week at this point haha because I am always there anyways to check for kitties and check the trap).  She has become incredibly trusting of me.  Today she let me pet and scratch her head again.  I even (lightly, not to really try to grab or pick her up) grabbed some of her scruff in my hand in sort of a massaging motion.  She closed her eyes like she liked it.  If I do anything else though like try to pet more of her body or grab on any tighter, she back away and looks at me like she is offended (ha!).

I may have to wait for the kittens to be born.  Since we (there are 4 of us actively working on this colony) have been involved she has had 4 litters, this will be 5.  She has always had and kept them in one of 2 places in the past so I hope we will be able to know where they are when they're born.  I will definitely try some of these tips though and see if I have some better success!  

Update on Sephora (mama of the current kittens I am fostering):  She is doing AMAZING today.  She is completely relaxed and she doesn't even hate me!  I'm very happy.  Her incision is nice and clean and looks good, she's been resting and eating well today, and she has been soaking up some loves and pets from me all day.  I'm so proud of her, she has grown (emotionally haha) so much in just over a week.  

Thanks again for all of the nice comments and tips!  If I make more progress I will post an update  As we speak, Penney's son and daughter who I caught last summer and both laying across me lounging....I can hardly type on my laptop hahaha!

Oh, one other question:  Why no towel?  It is a humane trap but I thought I was supposed to sort of disguise it and cover it.  Am I doing the wrong thing by covering it with a towel?  Every time I've ever set it I've used a towel.  Tomorrow I will try without

One of them moved before I could take a picture (he's a little camera shy haha) but this is what I'm dealing with hahaha.  Funny kid.  You'd never know that she lived her first 4.5 months out in the "wild"...she's a princess now!

Sooo sweet....soooo cute!!

So happy to be with you.

You obviously have the feral cat touch. 

I really agree with you to wait on Penny since she is so pregnant. Although it is tough to have to let her have another litter (I always have to ask, tougher on us? or on her?). In the meantime, perhaps you can take the time, to catch her in a more relaxed way. Since there are four of you doing the work, could you take shifts to watch the site and map out Penny's comings and goings? Since she will have another litter, it will help all of you to have a good understanding of her schedule.

Why not towel during trapping? The towel is for after the trapping. Once the cat is trapped, throwing the towel over the cage, calms the cat down IMMEDIATELY. It is to prevent them from hurting themselves.

We don't use the towel while trapping for a few reasons. One, it can be moved by the wind, which could discourage a cat from going near the cage. It also doesn't look "natural". It looks like something unusual. If the cat just sees the wire, but can see through it, around, in back of it, etc. it is less threatening. "Going into" something makes the cat have to get over one more fear. So, leaving it open with no obstruction, and no smells, other than what is on the cage can make a big difference. 

I was going to say too, that your drop trap, a kind I have never seen before, looks scary to me. If I was a cat, I don't think I would want to approach it. 

The large black door looks imposing, and having it on the same end as the pull cord, just seems like too much.

Okay, so here I go again, I promise I will get a picture today of the kind we use out here.

Just looking at the picture of the kind you are using answers, for me, the question as to why you haven't had much luck with it.

I could be wrong (heaven knows working with feral cats, there really only is "what works this minute on this cat" since everything can change in a minute).

But, in my experience, the more it looks like something a feral cat might run into during their time in the open, the better. i.e. wire cages can look like fencing.

The problems you all have had with catching Penny...food, location, people (especially the cat feeding lady...and they are everywhere always gumming up the trapping), etc. are the reasons why you will have to get a schedule for her and work to outsmart her so you will be able to catch her.

The beginning of working on a colony can sometimes go pretty easily and quickly, especially if the cats haven't had someone working on trapping them. But after awhile, they do get smart.

In my colony, if I put out a humane trap now....they all scatter for at least 24 hours, and then act really scared until they are sure the trap is gone.

So, Penny, has probably been around trapping before and knows more about it and the tricks to avoid it, even more than you! 

I have gotten friendly with a couple of "real" trappers since I started taking care of this colony to learn as many tricks as I could. If you know of one in your area, and you would like to learn more, see if you and your trapping friends could have a cup of coffee or a beer with him. I promise you will learn all sorts of keen stuff!.

By the way, I meant to tell you, the picture of Sephora hanging on the picture on the WALL   has got to be one of the funniest things I have ever seen. How did your vet handle it???