nutrional hell zone - diahrea to constipation and now a prolapse result..trying to avoid prescriptio

enet

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The best of intentions are so backfiring on my poor boy. The vet is a nonbeliever in raw or species appropriate and he was a foster from thier office that came to me with liquid stools. I probably changed his food too much and too fast several times... his diarrhea would worsen and bloody... after several other varieties we ended up with a LID natures' variety duck and primal freeze dried turkey/salmon before i realized it might be a protein issue. Which is rough becasue there's three right there... And he was starting to  prolapse.. He was tested for parasite during this time.. which came up negative (for what thats worth). I got some primal raw rabbit nuggets and he seemed to do well for a day before the prolapse actually worsened (no doubt due to the dry stools straining), I added back the LID in lamb hoping it would help.. and for a day or two the combination seemed to...then again, bloody and a larger  prolapse. I'm tempted to just use the damn prescription food but it's full of such crap... but obviously something is wrong with him that i'm not helping with... I'm also considering another vet... he's only 5 months old and he's been going through this so long... I seriously doubt he wasn't having diarrhea at the foster home, possibly they just didn't notice because of the litter choice and his "family" sister/parent cats...

I jjust want o feed him something soothing so this doesn't get worse. Should i just use the prescription crap food and let him have eat the crap? I have some purina E/N it's just so filled with junk...
 

2cats4me

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The best of intentions are so backfiring on my poor boy. The vet is a nonbeliever in raw or species appropriate and he was a foster from thier office that came to me with liquid stools. I probably changed his food too much and too fast several times... his diarrhea would worsen and bloody... after several other varieties we ended up with a LID natures' variety duck and primal freeze dried turkey/salmon before i realized it might be a protein issue. Which is rough becasue there's three right there... And he was starting to  prolapse.. He was tested for parasite during this time.. which came up negative (for what thats worth). I got some primal raw rabbit nuggets and he seemed to do well for a day before the prolapse actually worsened (no doubt due to the dry stools straining), I added back the LID in lamb hoping it would help.. and for a day or two the combination seemed to...then again, bloody and a larger  prolapse. I'm tempted to just use the damn prescription food but it's full of such crap... but obviously something is wrong with him that i'm not helping with... I'm also considering another vet... he's only 5 months old and he's been going through this so long... I seriously doubt he wasn't having diarrhea at the foster home, possibly they just didn't notice because of the litter choice and his "family" sister/parent cats...

I jjust want o feed him something soothing so this doesn't get worse. Should i just use the prescription crap food and let him have eat the crap? I have some purina E/N it's just so filled with junk...
If it were me in this situation I would use the RX Diet ..  It may not have  " the best " ingredients but I think it is more important to get this baby well again . So give the RX diet a try  and go from there ..
 
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enet

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yeah, i'm kinda thinking relief is the key...
 

2cats4me

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yeah, i'm kinda thinking relief is the key...
Yeah , if you can get his digestive system in order and he is feeling better with the RX  that is what is important .. 
 

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My cat had negative stool samples but had parasites after I insisted he deworm her and started with revolution drops and vomiting stopped. I also gave vets best hairball relief tabs which is slippery elm & psyllium. Does the cat go out or catch mice?
 
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enet

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So I'm back to update - the kid is now almost 6 months old and for a full week (knock on wood) no prolapse. STill a little dot of blood visible but it's major progress. What seems to have worked is Tylan (an antibiotic used for colitis and chronic diarrhea) and a good supply of enzymatic, pre and probioti as well as letting him eat his favorite raw food (Primal rabbit) mixed with canned limited Ingredient food.  I did this combination because he was getting bored with the LID lamb as an only option and I had to add tuna in water to get the bitter tasting Tylan in him anyway. Plus, we've (vet and I) kind of determined it hasn't been a food issue. Did these things work or was it time? Hard to say. But I tend to think it's not just time because of the still present slight irritation showing. Hopefully if you come across this issue you can find some hope in this (and it stays this way for us!)

The Tylan also affects the flora so it's most likely he had some kind of issue from either early parasites or an infection but the FortiFlora seemed to not be enough of a boost to help and gave him some diarhea... what i ended up with seems good in tandem - not to push a product in anyway or take away that the prescription might be making more of an impact this is what i bought: NaturVet Digestive Enzymes Plus Probiotic Dog & Cat Powder Supplement...

In any case, it was a concerning and alarming issue and i hope if you encounter it you can maintain a little more stoicism that i did! I did, near the end put  some vaseline on it if it was lasting more than fifteen minutes - he ate it off immediately but it felt like i was helping, lol.
 
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enet

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it never ends - i'm updating in case someone else comes along with the same issues. Apparently we 're back in prolapse mode more or less all the time, although the tissue itself is now less red and irritated plus it seems to relapse (ha ha) within five or ten minutes. He's off the antibiotics because we had an unscheduled break and just never restarted - it has been months and no effect... but he is still getting a  pre/probiotic and enzyme with every meal. I'm considering the fact that it's a birth defect (first generation in breed) or a tougher parasite than we've hit. The next round of testing was described as $$$ to me, so I'm just watching and waiting. He doesn't appear to be in discomfort. He's tolerating the raw food well... And yet there it is every poop. I figure as long as he's looking happy and gaining weight without showing pain during elimination - waiting is the plan. but it does make me nuts.

if anyone does come across a theory or have the same issue please chime in. He's such a good boy...
 

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All that I have read about prolapses, I've never had a cat have one so I'm just going by second hand knowledge here, is that once the cat has a prolapse, the vet has to place it back and surgically make the area smaller so that it will not come out again. I do think that with all his straining and what not that is what caused him to have it in the first place. That being said can they give you fiber powder to mix with his food? To thicken up the stool?
 
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enet

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I've been wondering about IBD.It was brought on by near constant diarrhea when he was a little guy - and which is why we assumed he had a parasite (he's a little pica eat everything guy)...the surgery is only necessary if it's larger and/or not receding. I began him on a limited ingredient diet back when this started and now we're one better on a limited ingredient raw rabbit based food. Which has seemed to help some. IF you're familiar with raw feeding, harder fecal matter is a normal thing. I had been concerned at first it would worsen his prolapse but in opposition to the other foods liquidity it seems to actually be working well....
 

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Yes, I'm very familiar with raw feeding. I make my raw cat food according to Dr. Piersons recipe.
 
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enet

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We're using Primal nuggets rabbit primarily right now and it seems to be doing some nice things for him. But that prolapse issue just keeps hanging around... i'm giving him another month or two before i re-engage with the vet in the hopes he'll outgrow it. I've heard that does happen. And since it's not huge or remaining out too long, and otherwise he seems healthy... we're just waiting. Digestively he seems good now. which is something. He still sucks on wool, blankets and anything else he can get a hold of and will eat anything that fits in his mouth so... there's that, lol. I was suspicious of poultry for a while because even if it is a parasite of some kind they led to watery stools... hard to keep poultry free and get convenience. I appreciate the input.
 

nansiludie

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Glad to hear a good update. I've read the Primal brand is a good one, I've not ever used raw food that was commercially made.
 
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i'm too lazy and afraid i'll screwed up anything more complicated.. it's not cheap which is a shame... but i know it's nutritionally complete so that's something. Until there's a recall I suppose. But it's been good. I wish they didn't have poultry in the other blends though. it's the only one that's clean...and just because i thought it might have been an issue early on i'm avoiding it... time will tell maybe.
 

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Hi, my 3-year-old cat has similar problems. I've been working with the vet since I got my cat, Meko, in December 2013 but I can't seem to stabilize her. We have tried various meds and foods. My vet calls the red butt issue a fistula. Meko will drop these poopsicles around the house. She runs like she's possessed to eject them. And sometimes she doesn't go very often so I think she's constipated. Then more recently she got sick and had a high fever and was vomiting and pooping outside the litter box. The vet hospitalized her and she was given subcutaneous fluids and antibiotics. When she came home I had to give her more antibiotics as well as an anti-nausea medicine. She was fine for a while and then got sick again, more vomiting but this time she had diarrhea. The vet said she wasn't as bad as before and I think was trying to save me money so he had me keep her home and give her the same round of antibiotics and anti-nausea meds. She is okay now but still pooping outside the litter box. 

She is on Hill's W/D dry and Wellness canned turkey. I mix 1/2 a capsule of Vetasyl (fiber pill) to her canned food morning and night. I give her a dropperful of liquid steroid for the fistula morning and night. And more recently I added Gentle Digest pre and probiotic chews which thankfully she likes. So far my vet has only said she has a "sensitive digestive system." My sister says to get a second opinion.

I spoke to a Vet tech recently who told me I might try a different dry food since she said W/D is not the best but vets get a discount for using it. She also told me the steroids and antibiotics are constipating for cats. I would love to not have her on any meds but I don't know what to do and I'm at my wit's end. Her fistula got infected once too and was bloody and the steroids seem to help with the inflammation. 

As an aside, I work for a science organization and recently learned that the intestine of a fruit fly has different sections that process different nutrients. So for example, one section will process iron, another copper. I am wondering if this is true for other organisms including cats, and that she's either not getting something she needs or is not able to process it. She chews on wood and plastic at times and I don't know if this is because she is lacking nutrients or what. 

If you have any advice I'd be most grateful. 
 

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Correction: Meko is eating Wellness chicken and herring, grain free. I settled on this because she likes it.
 

nansiludie

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Hi, my 3-year-old cat has similar problems. I've been working with the vet since I got my cat, Meko, in December 2013 but I can't seem to stabilize her. We have tried various meds and foods. My vet calls the red butt issue a fistula. Meko will drop these poopsicles around the house. She runs like she's possessed to eject them. And sometimes she doesn't go very often so I think she's constipated. Then more recently she got sick and had a high fever and was vomiting and pooping outside the litter box. The vet hospitalized her and she was given subcutaneous fluids and antibiotics. When she came home I had to give her more antibiotics as well as an anti-nausea medicine. She was fine for a while and then got sick again, more vomiting but this time she had diarrhea. The vet said she wasn't as bad as before and I think was trying to save me money so he had me keep her home and give her the same round of antibiotics and anti-nausea meds. She is okay now but still pooping outside the litter box. 

She is on Hill's W/D dry and Wellness canned turkey. I mix 1/2 a capsule of Vetasyl (fiber pill) to her canned food morning and night. I give her a dropperful of liquid steroid for the fistula morning and night. And more recently I added Gentle Digest pre and probiotic chews which thankfully she likes. So far my vet has only said she has a "sensitive digestive system." My sister says to get a second opinion.

I spoke to a Vet tech recently who told me I might try a different dry food since she said W/D is not the best but vets get a discount for using it. She also told me the steroids and antibiotics are constipating for cats. I would love to not have her on any meds but I don't know what to do and I'm at my wit's end. Her fistula got infected once too and was bloody and the steroids seem to help with the inflammation. 

As an aside, I work for a science organization and recently learned that the intestine of a fruit fly has different sections that process different nutrients. So for example, one section will process iron, another copper. I am wondering if this is true for other organisms including cats, and that she's either not getting something she needs or is not able to process it. She chews on wood and plastic at times and I don't know if this is because she is lacking nutrients or what. 

If you have any advice I'd be most grateful. 
If it is fistula that will need surgery to correct. I doubt she will get any better unless she does. I say this because there is a cat on facebook, her name is Freya and her fistula meant she was born without any rectum. She had surgery and has done very well. I am leaving a link here, https://www.facebook.com/forFreya?fref=ts
 

hivalb

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Oh dear. My vet told me surgery often doesn't work and so I think he is reluctant to go that route. I think I will talk to another vet I trust and see what he thinks. It doesn't seem to be very common and I worry about finding a vet with the expertise to treat it and do the surgery if that's what she needs. In any case, thank you for your reply.
 
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enet

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I had good luck with my older (sadly former) cat's constipation with miralax.However, I've learned after that horrible experience (his death was prematurely and rather agravatedly awful due to the steps we took to "help") that the best thing to do unless there is constant pain (which is hard to see, I understand) is time. Antibiotics were given to us for this new boy long term in the hopes it would settle him, then on a trip he missed a few doses that seemed to make no difference so i stopped it. After all, i'm leary of most interaction where possible now. Vets have a tendency like most doctors today to want to prescribe something to make a gesture if not to actually affect change in my opinion. Time has made a difference as has settling on a single protein, raw food. It's not gone (the prolapse/fistula) but it's better and it's less raw in appearance. This has taken months of monitoring and stress on me more than him. But i do monitor him to ensure he's not having pain when using the litter box (to the best of my ability).

In our case, the steroids also made little difference to him. Overall, fixing the loose stool long term made the most difference and raw (primal brand in my case) produces a hard stool that i was afraid might force the mass out more but honestly has seemed to work. More than the steroids did - they led to more stomach upsets and the loose stool was so much more detrimental than the calm from the swelling could keep up with.  I do still use a pre/probiotic enzyme powder at every meal - i'm not sure i believe it makes much difference but it makes ME feel like i'm doing something (which is a lot!).

The key to me is that there are "rare" abnormalities as well as simply parasites that are hard to discover let alone treat. I tend to think in our case it is a parasitical infection but the testing is expensive and we are seeing improvements over the past three months. As my farm raised mother is fond of saying, these things usually work themselves out in the wild one way or another and a healthy cat can fight off almost anything given time. So i focus on proper nutrition and wait. ALso, i'm one of the nutters against dry food. My last cat lived to be 20 on it - so it can't be all bad, but he had serious digestion issues in the end that led to his death. I no  longer have any dry food other than some freeze dried treats in my cats diet. This is a little arbitrary but it feels right to me... which is just anecdotal crap, really. Wet food is a pain. Raw food requires more money and time. However, again, it's really about making ME feel better while he gets the time to adjust across the board to whatever is going on in his body.

Trusting a great vet is everything. I personally take it all with a grain of salt because that's how i feel about all medical intervention. My own doctor prescribes steroids for skin issues a lot - in fact most of my life - and i've stopped those personally because it's really just a symptom masker that sets up a chain of vengeful re-occurence afterwards. I have to believe the same process is true in animals. However, as always, making the cat comfortable is number one. I second guess my vet but i listen and research as much as possible at the same time and at the end of the day - she's the expert on cat biology and i'm the expert on this particular cat.

Time. Limited ingredient diet. Time. And having ranted all that - I'm still convinced we're not "cured" but improvement is everything.

Also, the premium dry foods we have tried have all led to loose watery stools. people like to use the term "rich" to describe this reaction. I have no idea why it happens but I have a cabinet of leftovers that attest to not trying them anymore. Easing up on the digestion system seems to be an advantage to letting whatevers going on chill. So that's my advice. That and patience - which is next to impossible when you're worried.

I also worry about the chewing/eating non food items but i attribute it more to insecurity or leftover hunger "worry" (this was an abandoned birth situation in a closed apartment where i believe the parents were starving) and comfort. There's not a lot of literature on pica or the eating issues other than to say it's emotional and potentially treated with antidepressants. Me,I figure if it makes him feel better, let him chew on blankets and keep small edible wool toys out of the house. If it makes him happy it's just a little gross to me and so far it's limit-able to one blanket for the most part. knitted toys are the enemy in our house which is sad because he adored them. wool sweaters get locked away. It's not a hard thing to keep that stuff out of his reach and again, if teh chewing/licking/suckling isn't hurting me or him, I figure go at it little guy. after all, he doesn't drink or smoke...
as always, i wish i had answers for you. or someone had them for me. Do you have a picture of the fistula? it sounds gross, but i'm curious if its the same issue we have... I'll find one of our photos (gross no?) but it won't be from his worst days, probably mid way because those i have more of...this is from April (it's now July and the red is 90% gone and the protrusion dissapears within minutes now (in the beginning it was about an hour) despite a little redness remaining at all times.. mostly it's a vast improvement. Now it's less red and goes down quickly. I hope someday it will stop altogether.. Please let me know what you find out as you move forward. Hopefully we can help others out who encounter it later.
 
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