7 week kitten, small eyes with visible 3rd eyelid, lethargic, losing weight

Hi all, I recently started fostering cats and a couple of months ago took on a pregnant cat. She gave birth to 4 babies 7.5 weeks ago, one (the youngest and smallest one) unfortunately passed away a few days ago - heartbreaking. Now I'm beginning to get worried about the 3rd born, she's starting to show the same behaviour/symptoms as the little one who recently passed. Before he passed, I took him to the vet twice but they didn't really offer much. They didn't even take his temperature. Looking back I wish I got a second opinion, but I'm not sure if much would have changed. 

The signs he had, and now the 3rd little one is showing are:

- Small eyes with visible third eyelid. No visible discharge (the other 2 kittens eyes have fully developed)

- Less interest in the other kittens. Not playful at all anymore. Lethargic and sleeps a lot, usually away from the other kittens. 

- Feeding less. Still suckling from mum, but not interested in solids anymore and I'm not sure she's taking much from her mum when suckles.

- Recent stagnant weight and then weight loss. Was 580gm for a week, and in two days her weight has dropped to 535gms.

- She doesn't sound snuffly. The little one who passed began to develop a wheeze and later a snotty nose in his critical stages, . 

I don't know much about the mum's previous background. I don't think she's had vaccinations. She had the flu when she was pregnant, which was probably passed onto the other kittens. The firstborn kitten has had flu like symptoms for a few weeks, but he's thriving incredibly well. 

I've started to read up on cat illnesses and I'm worried they might have FIV or FeLV. 

Does anyone have any similar experiences or knowledge? It's overnight here in Australia and I'm at work but I'm worried. I think I'll take her back to the vet tomorrow. She had a checkup about a week ago when she was well (apart from her small eyes). 

Thanks in advance.

@catwoman707, @StefanZ -- may i ask for your expertise for the OP (original poster)?

@snoph -- i don't have experience in this area, but i've just 'paged' our two kitten experts. i'm sure they'll be along shortly to offer assistance.

are you able to do supplemental feedings, like with fresh/canned goats milk or KMR (kitten milk replacement)? the kitten that now sleeps away from the other kittens, do you have a heating pad to set on low under a towel for him/her? or as an alternative, you could fill a sock with rice and heat it in the microwave -- not too hot, and could be placed under a towel. while from what you've said these kittens are coming up on two months old (so can regulate their own body heat), providing a little extra warmth for a sick kitten shouldn't hurt.

snoph said:

 
I've started to read up on cat illnesses and I'm worried they might have FIV or FeLV. 

Does anyone have any similar experiences or knowledge? It's overnight here in Australia and I'm at work but I'm worried. I think I'll take her back to the vet tomorrow. She had a checkup about a week ago when she was well (apart from her small eyes). 

Thanks in advance.

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Young kittens die for a variety of reasons - failure to thrive as an example, but its too early to worry about FIV/FeLV.  If the kitten is losing weight she/he is going to die unless its reversed.  I don't understand why your vet wouldn't temp the previous kitten.

The kitten must be kept warm or it won't thrive and will not be able to digest food.  Buy a digital or regular thermometer and some lubricant like KY.  A normal temp is between 100.5–102.5, (38.1–39.2)  and below 100 and the cat is in trouble and should be manually warmed - gently - using insulated heating pads as you must make sure not to kill the kittens by over temping them.  In the short term you can use hot water bottles but you really want something like I've linked to below that provides 8+ hours oh heat.

Feeding an under temp kitten can cause death so make sure she is warm first.

Any kitten who isn't thriving should be weighed 2x a day with an accurate scale like a baby scale so you know if you ware "winning" or losing.

Then consider supplementary bottle feeding with cat formula like KMR, possibly with a little kero syrup added.  The formula should be normal body temp like 101F.  Do not feed her on her back!  She must be right side up in a normal sitting position.  You MUST stimulate her to pee and poop afterwards with a wet paper towel or tissue, rubbed on her urethra and anus until nothing more comes out.  A video on bottle feeding is linked below as well.

However it sounds like your kitten is also sick, a complicating factor, and you need a vet who does more than look at your kitten.  A vet can also gavage feed - that's with a feeding tube into the stomach if she won't bottle feed.

If the kitten's temp is high, one would want to consider feline distemper, a very dangerous illness for all the kittens.



The bottom line is if you have lost one, and the next one is ill and you have a mom with milk, then the situation is serious and you really need quality vet care ASAP.  That means a vet who cares enough to temp the kitten and provide appropriate care.  If it's distemper and your vet doesn't care enough to rule this out, then they are negligent,

@mickNsnicks2mom  thank you so much for replying and paging the kitten experts.

I have tried supplemental feeds yes, just started today. I have cat mother's milk formula, and a high calorie cat food that I originally bought for the little guy. I haven't tried keeping the little girl warm yet with extra measures. Today was a hot day and the house was quite warm, so she was probably okay. But tomorrow is meant to be a bit colder so I'll keep her warm with a heat pack.

Thank you @StephenQ  I'm even more worried now. She still has strength, but isn't behaving her usual self. I'm really sad the Vet didn't check the little guy's temp the first time, after reading your post I am perplexed he didn't consider taking his temp. When I went back for the following check up when he was worse, a different Vet looked at him and she didn't take his temp either.

I have never heard of death caused by feeding an under temp kitten, thank you so much for this advice. I'll ensure she's kept warm and the formula and high calorie wet foods are warm too. May I ask what kero syrup is? The brand formula I have is Wombaroo, which I believe it an Australian brand but it came as highly recommended. I did try bottle feeding the little guy but he didn't take to the teat, so I gently syringe fed him. I will re-try bottle feeding this girl though.

I might consider going to a different Vet if I'm not satisfied this one is assessing her thoroughly enough. 

snoph said:

 
Thank you @StephenQ  I'm even more worried now. She still has strength, but isn't behaving her usual self. I'm really sad the Vet didn't check the little guy's temp the first time, after reading your post I am perplexed he didn't consider taking his temp. When I went back for the following check up when he was worse, a different Vet looked at him and she didn't take his temp either.

I have never heard of death caused by feeding an under temp kitten, thank you so much for this advice. I'll ensure she's kept warm and the formula and high calorie wet foods are warm too. May I ask what kero syrup is? The brand formula I have is Wombaroo, which I believe it an Australian brand but it came as highly recommended. I did try bottle feeding the little guy but he didn't take to the teat, so I gently syringe fed him. I will re-try bottle feeding this girl though.

I might consider going to a different Vet if I'm not satisfied this one is assessing her thoroughly enough. 

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I don't blame you for being worried, i would be too.

Kero syrup is corn syrup, basically liquid sugar.  This is a supplement to mother's replacement milk, not instead of, and you should never use cow milk.  I have looked at Wombaroo and it looks like good stuff

A very under temp kitten (probably colder than yours if yours is under, and yours might be over as in having a fever) cannot digest food properly, and that's why it can cause death.

I re-read your post and saw that your kittens are close to 8 weeks in age, old enough for syringe feeding if you are doing it properly, and certainly old enough to be weaned so it is not unusual for the kittens to be off mom's milk at this point.

Your kittens are also old enough for antibiotics to help with a upper respiratory illness if they have that, or distemper if that is whats going on, but regardless at this age and condition proper vet care in my opinion must include all of the following (basic) work:

Diagnostic:

- temp

- weighing

- heart, lung exam by stethoscope

- mouth, eye, ear exam

Antibiotics and supportive care should follow if the vet suspects a viral or bacterial infection (cats and dogs are treated with antibiotics even in viral infections due to the prevalence of secondary bacterial infections).

Vaccinations should be waited on until the kittens are healthy.  An 8 week old kitten should weigh 2 pounds or .907Kg.   Less than this and the kitten is underweight.

The above is basic vet care.  Your vet may not be well suited to domesticated companion animals or if they are, may come from an older POV that basically says, if the kitten lives it lives, and if it doesn't then (either) who cares (?) or that was nature's plan, and I would disagree strongly with either POV, and if that was theirs then i would suggest you have a bad vet, who's (guessing) about 40 years +/- in the past.

snoph said:

 
Hi all, I recently started fostering cats and a couple of months ago took on a pregnant cat. She gave birth to 4 babies 7.5 weeks ago, one (the youngest and smallest one) unfortunately passed away a few days ago - heartbreaking. Now I'm beginning to get worried about the 3rd born, she's starting to show the same behaviour/symptoms as the little one who recently passed. Before he passed, I took him to the vet twice but they didn't really offer much. They didn't even take his temperature. Looking back I wish I got a second opinion, but I'm not sure if much would have changed. 

The signs he had, and now the 3rd little one is showing are:

- Small eyes with visible third eyelid. No visible discharge (the other 2 kittens eyes have fully developed)

- Less interest in the other kittens. Not playful at all anymore. Lethargic and sleeps a lot, usually away from the other kittens. 

- Feeding less. Still suckling from mum, but not interested in solids anymore and I'm not sure she's taking much from her mum when suckles.

- Recent stagnant weight and then weight loss. Was 580gm for a week, and in two days her weight has dropped to 535gms.

- She doesn't sound snuffly. The little one who passed began to develop a wheeze and later a snotty nose in his critical stages, . 

I don't know much about the mum's previous background. I don't think she's had vaccinations. She had the flu when she was pregnant, which was probably passed onto the other kittens. The firstborn kitten has had flu like symptoms for a few weeks, but he's thriving incredibly well. 

I've started to read up on cat illnesses and I'm worried they might have FIV or FeLV. 

Does anyone have any similar experiences or knowledge? It's overnight here in Australia and I'm at work but I'm worried. I think I'll take her back to the vet tomorrow. She had a checkup about a week ago when she was well (apart from her small eyes). 

Thanks in advance.

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Im reading.  I dont know as yet what those who answered said, although I presume the advices were adequate.

Ok, reading done and the advices WERE  good and very adequate.

So, for a beginning, I agree be sure the kitten is warm enough - also, all sick and weak humans tends to freeze, no?   Let it lay on a fleece, it feels comfortable for them.

Also extra feeding.  If you can get raw goat milk, do use this.  Bottled is OK too, but raw is very best.   Otherwise some nice and good kmr.  Which one do you have?

Re measuring the temp, you can also measure the temp in the armpit of the foreleg.  Its slighter lower there, about 3F or one full Celsius, compared with measuring in the rectum. Its not fully as exactly, but good enough to notice tendencies and changes.

Re the third eyelid.  As you perhaps know, this isnt necessary any problems with the eye as such.  The third eyelid shows the kitten has some infection or inflammation in her.

Which you do know she must have...

Sometimes its just worms.  Here we know it is something more serious.

And yes, if you have access to another vet, try with this other vet this time.

Wishing you Good Luck and sending *vibes!*

snoph said:

 
Thank you @StephenQ  I'm even more worried now. She still has strength, but isn't behaving her usual self. I'm really sad the Vet didn't check the little guy's temp the first time, after reading your post I am perplexed he didn't consider taking his temp. When I went back for the following check up when he was worse, a different Vet looked at him and she didn't take his temp either.

I have never heard of death caused by feeding an under temp kitten, thank you so much for this advice. I'll ensure she's kept warm and the formula and high calorie wet foods are warm too. May I ask what kero syrup is? The brand formula I have is Wombaroo, which I believe it an Australian brand but it came as highly recommended. I did try bottle feeding the little guy but he didn't take to the teat, so I gently syringe fed him. I will re-try bottle feeding this girl though.

I might consider going to a different Vet if I'm not satisfied this one is assessing her thoroughly enough. 

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I jiust did the conversion and 535gms is 1.18 pounds, very underweight for what is almost an 8 week old kitten, weighing closer to what a 1 month old kitten is like.  A mortality risk.  Can you compare the weight to the other kittens, that would be helpful.

@StefanZ  and @StephenQ  The other kittens are 720gms and 650gms. They look well, steadily putting on weight and developing. 

The Vet seemed to check everything you mentioned, except for her temp. I have access to a baby thermometer, I will check her temp when I get home. I actually had no idea the visible third eyelid indicated infection/inflammation. The vet suggested she might have microphthalmia, but I'm not convinced. 

I think I might take her to the large RSPCA vet clinic, which might have a more modern approach and hopefully focus more on life saving strategies than letting their path come naturally. 

Can you suggest how many mls of the formula I should be giving her and how frequently? I am so worried about the little dear. 

snoph said:

 
@StefanZ  and @StephenQ  The other kittens are 720gms and 650gms. They look well, steadily putting on weight and developing. 

The Vet seemed to check everything you mentioned, except for her temp. I have access to a baby thermometer, I will check her temp when I get home. I actually had no idea the visible third eyelid indicated infection/inflammation. The vet suggested she might have microphthalmia, but I'm not convinced. 

I think I might take her to the large RSPCA vet clinic, which might have a more modern approach and hopefully focus more on life saving strategies than letting their path come naturally. 

Can you suggest how many mls of the formula I should be giving her and how frequently? I am so worried about the little dear. 

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I am so sorry but your vet is very inexperienced and doesn't imo really know what they are doing in this instance.  Those of us who work in shelters and in shelter medicine, or like @StefanZ work with rescues and outdoor cats see this all the time. I have seen literally many hundreds of cats with third eyelids showing and they are essentially all due to some form of eye infection, typically one of several types of upper respiratory infections that commonly infect the eyes.  In some instances the 3d eyelid can show due to general ill health but i have very rarely seen cats with congenitally deformed eyes similar to microphthalmia and what you are describing does not to appear to be that.  To be sure, can you take a photo of your kitten's eyes/face for us?

I would go straight to the RSPCA Vet, they will certainly have experience with rescued cats and their common illnesses.

At 8 weeks of age the kitten should really be on conventional wet food (pate, not shreds or chunky) and mixed with enough water to be squirt-able via a feeding syringe, and should be eating most of if not an entire 5.5oz can a day.  Temporarily I would recommend Hill's A/D, a high calorie and very tempting prescription food that is often used for sick or underweight cats.

Your current vet is not imo going to keep your kitten from dying, and their not temp-ing the kitten is beyond explanation.  Get to the RSPCA ASAP.   At this point, you not only need a better vet, but you are going to need some luck too.....

Hills A/D is what I got for the kitten who passed, however we did have to request it from the vet, he didn't suggest it. I'll use Hills A/D for this one too. 

@StephenQ  Thank you for being so transparent about the inexperienced level my Vet has demonstrated. It just goes to show I should have stuck to my gut instinct more and perhaps been more forceful. I am a paediatric nurse and I noticed the kitten who has now passed was showing signs of increased work of breathing, so I took him straight to the vet. When I mentioned his breathing to the vet, he said he didn't think he was breathing abnormally. I'm sorry but he had nasal flare, subcostal recession and head bob, particularly after feeds, and that is NOT normal! I feel so guilty now. Poor little Louis   I don't want this to happen to Primrose now. 

I will take her straight to the RSPCA tomorrow and stress the importance of a good examination and mention as much of her and her mum's and sibling's history as  I can. 

Hi @snoph  ,

Very sorry to hear about your recent loss and now this kitten is at risk.

After reading through this thread, I don't have a good feeling, to put it straight out there.

For a 7 week old kitten to die is bad. What this tells me is something very serious is wrong, likely genetic.

It would not be FIV, but it may very well be FELV. FIV is not passed through moms to the kids, but FELV certainly is.

The inner lid is a window of their insides, meaning a very real health issue is happening when a 7 week old kitten has lids exposed like this.

One question for you, when you say that mom had the flu during pregnancy, can you tell me more about this? Was she seen/examined? Meds?

My thinking at this point of possibilities are Panleukopenia (cat parvo), FELV positive, massive parasite infestation, not really old enough for FIP plus it wouldn't be 2 kittens, just one, or a genetically inherited defect, heart maybe.....(?)

Please tell me in great detail about the cat flu mom had.

Please know, despite your care and concern, your kitten is critical and you may very well lose her. I'm very sorry to say it like that, I just want you to understand how gravely sick she is, lethargic and not interested in her siblings or play, with her inner lids out and weight loss? VERY serious. Beyond simply supplementing her I'm afraid.

So unless she can see a damn good vet who will get fluids in to her ASAP, and get busy testing her stool, etc, she is in grave danger.

Her symptoms are very vague, basically just the standard for an ill kitten, nothing particular pointing to any specific illnesses. No vomiting or diarrhea either?

Oh!! Does mom go outside?

Hi @catwoman707  Thank you for your condolences. 

When the mother had the flu, she was sneezy, coughing and snuffly. Her appetite was still good and she drank a lot. She was purely eating dry biscuits, specifically Royal Canin Mother and Baby. We took her to a Vet who did not want to put her on any antibiotics or medicines because according to her, it was not safe for the unborn kittens. The Vet did not say much else. Her flu symptoms cleared up very soon after the kittens were born, if not before. I'm sorry I don't remember too much more detail because this is going back 2+ months ago.

The kittens did briefly have fleas when they were around 2 or 3 weeks old, but we very quickly caught them and they have completely gone. The kittens have been wormed now and are due for another worming at the end of the week. Can parasites occur from fleas? The kitten has been auscultated by a vet with a stethoscope and there was no mention of a heart murmur. She and Louis do look a little dysmorphic, but I think that's jut because of their eyes. Mother cat does not go outside. 

I do not have a great photo of the ill kitten at the moment, when I get home from work I'll try to take a clearer photo of her eyes. For now this is a photo of Primrose on the right, compared to the healthy ginger cat and grey cat on the left hand side, with dear Louis at the front who has now passed.


That saddens me greatly to hear she is at very great risk of passing too. I really, really hope she pulls through. It was so incredibly heartbreaking losing Louis. Now Primrose has very suddenly started showing signs of sickness too (apart from her eyelids which my vet showed no concerns over). 

So when I take her to the RSPCA vet tomorrow, what should I request? Urine and stool sample? IV fluids? Antibiotics? So far I have been given so much more information from this forum than the several vets I have seen in person, so I have much more confidence from here. Thus I want to know what I should seek from the vet. 

I can't thank you all enough for your help. 

They will likely recommend the following, and if not, then you can request whatever diagnostic you're concerned about.

1. Blood Glucose, only a pin-prick of blood needed

2. Instant FeLV SNAP test, as antigen can be present in a maternally infected kitten. Mom's blood could be tested if the 1.5lb kitten doesn't yield the 0.3mL blood needed for this test.

3. Fast Scan with Ultrasound to check for chest and peritoneal (in abdomen) fluid

If low glucose, a bolus of dextrose intravenously will be recommended treatment, with recheck glucose in between each bolus until a stable BG (at least 60 mg/dL) is reached. If you elect in general for "stabilization" they may not run all this by you item by item first, as they act fast once they know a kitten is hypoglycemic, shocky, and/or dehydrated.

Increased respiratory effort as you described above is definitely concerning. The vet will auscult, and if the chest or belly sound "gurgly" or crackles heard, this alone provides enough info that all the above diagnostics are moot since fluid is in the chest and/or abdomen, poor prognosis indeed for a 1.5lb critter with still developing-immunity.

For hypothermia, getting warm fluids in them ASAP, be it IV or SC, will be their goal, then on heat, including a warm circulating water bed and warm blowing air blanket.

Lethargy, fever and/or weakness can cause the membrane you see in the lower corner of the eyes to become visible.

I hope this second clinic has better assessment and answers for you. Good Luck!

The fact that the vet showed no concern over the inner lids showing on a young kitten speaks volumes in itself................

This would be a big red flag if it were me seeing this.

I knew immediately it was her in the pic, she looks sick. Body/weight wise, she looks just the same as her brother did, she is def. underweight despite her pretty fluffy fur.

Mom's cat flu as you described it could have been Bordetella, or there may be a systemic bacteria going on.

Each bit of info you give does help, for instance at the end of the boy kitten who passed started having uri symptoms, or that mom does not go outside, and that they were dewormed once already.

She is likely becoming hypoglycemic or already is, and surely is dehydrated. So waiting until tmrw to see a vet is a very long time for her to go and hang on without getting further damaged from this alone.

So you need to syringe her. It can be warm KMR, which would be best really, but she does need help fast. She will resist but be patient and persistent, getting a good amt in to her now, as it takes alot longer to fix/help dehydration then getting fluids sub-q (under skin)

My recommendations for her vet visit are temperature, sub-q fluids, a shot of appetite stimulant, a blood panel, but blood is not easy in small kittens, especially in dehydrated/underweight kids. And antibiotics, as this may be caused from systemic bacteria.

She does need to be tested for FELV, as this is suspect with her and brother.

If they can't get blood they can test momma though.

She doesn't look good hun, and just so you know, looking at her picture makes me feel sad, I can clearly see distance in her eyes, and how she is by herself, so I know she is in trouble.

catwoman707 said:

 
Hi @snoph  ,
 VERY serious. Beyond simply supplementing her I'm afraid.

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Sure.  Very true.  But yet the supplementing, for example with raw goat milk if it is accesible (in some situations, raw goat milk the the mayor treatment by itself)

, is necessary to have any chance at all.  Otherwise the kitten will perish by itself by sheer starvation.

@snoph

StefanZ said:

 
Sure.  Very true.  But yet the supplementing, for example with raw goat milk if it is accesible (in some situations, raw goat milk the the mayor treatment by itself)

, is necessary to have any chance at all.  Otherwise the kitten will perish by itself by sheer starvation.

@snoph

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Right, exactly.

I mentioned in my last post about syringing her as she can't wait until vet visit tmrw, she is too bad of condition to hold off.

Yes, warm KMR or goat's milk is best to get her through until the vet sees her.

I sure do hope it's not the same vet.

The only ting Ive read that sounds like a bit much at this point (and $$$) is an ultrasound, and it sounds premature.  Everything else seems right on.  I would consider bringing the mom in for an FIV/FeLV snap test, that way you aren't dependent on the kitten being able to give enough blood.  If mom is Neg then Kitten is Neg.  And I retract something I said in an earlier post when I said it was premature to worry about FIV/FeLV, that was before I read the age of the kitten.  FeLV is a concern.

Cheat-Sheet Hand Rearing Kittens:

http://messybeast.com/handrear.htm

Pretty appalling about the vet.