advice please

Hi, I need some advice on what to do with a feral mom and her kittens. She and her babies were trapped Monday and have spent the week in a large cat playpen in my bedroom. The problem is I think she is getting more stressed the longer she stays at the house. She is starting to get aggressive when I clean the cage or feed her or even if I sit in front of the cage. She also refuses to leave the nest box except once or twice a day to use the litter box, but she won't leave it for food or water. I'm worried about her muscle tone and the aggressiveness and think she should probably be spayed sooner rather than later and returned home and the babies bottle fed, my mother thinks we should wait until the babies are weaned. So the question is at what point would itbe best for everyone for her to be spayed andreleased? The babies are 2.5 weeks and I can tell they need to be wormed but she won't let me near them.

As soon as the kittens could lap up some thinned food from a plate, I would have her spayed, pretty soon really. I'm pretty sure they can still nurse even if spayed, but I don't know how mama will take all the stress, she could abandon the kittens. Does she come out at night at all to eat, she has to eat soon. I hope someone answers you with solid advise, bless you for caring for these sweet babies, mama doesn't know how good she has it!

She eats if i put the food right next tothe entrance to the box, but only as much as she can reach without leaving the box. Same with the water. She's started growling when I go to get the bowl after she's done eating though. I'm more worried about her muscle tone if she doesn't start moving more.

AmandaRonning said:

Hi, I need some advice on what to do with a feral mom and her kittens. She and her babies were trapped Monday and have spent the week in a large cat playpen in my bedroom. The problem is I think she is getting more stressed the longer she stays at the house. She is starting to get aggressive when I clean the cage or feed her or even if I sit in front of the cage. She also refuses to leave the nest box except once or twice a day to use the litter box, but she won't leave it for food or water. I'm worried about her muscle tone and the aggressiveness and think she should probably be spayed sooner rather than later and returned home and the babies bottle fed, my mother thinks we should wait until the babies are weaned. So the question is at what point would itbe best for everyone for her to be spayed andreleased? The babies are 2.5 weeks and I can tell they need to be wormed but she won't let me near them.

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Yes, that is certainly one of the possible variations.  She being TNR, and you taking care of the kittens, including bottle / syringe feeding. Most rescuers try to drag on it, so they can manage to eat themselves, not to need to hand rear them.

But if you notice she is too aggressive...

The muscle tone is seldom a real problem, I havent it described as a real problem anyways.  But I do agree with you now when you mention it.  It may even add to her gettin short tempered, her feeling uncomfortable...

Because otherwise most moms, even semiferales, do calm down, when they "land" and realize nobody is mean to them, and this may even be the best practical chance for her children.

They land, adapt, and copy with the situation, allowing handling of the kittens etc.   That is the most common.   Of course, the really hyperaggressive ones never comes into this statistics.

Another variation is you do fight on.   Try with a Feliway diffuser in this room.   There are also other calming preparates of similiar purpose.

Have calm, relaxin music on.  Classical harp music is the best, but most relaxin music should do.

On youtube you can find purring sounds.  For example mom with her kittens, purring on...

You yourself can try with lotsa of soft, friendly, crooning sounds when you are near - I dont know if you had done it yet.   Its cat language.  Compare friendly toms who do court, and dominant toms who doesnt court, just taking what they want...

Also, dont look directly on her, especially not in her eyes...  Look a little aside, on the neck for example.   Blink slowly with your eyes.  You can strech yourself forwards and backwards, standing on all fours.  Yawn.    All this are friendly  are friendly gestures in the cat world.

Tx for caring!

Good luck!

She may be overwrought because of the situation.  She's just had babies, her hormones are raging and she's trapped (from her point of view, anyway).  I would watch the kittens closely, to make sure she doesn't hurt them.  If that happens, take them immediately.  You might want to put feelers out for help with bottle feeding, just in case.

But if you maintain the routine and don't stress her, she should be OK.  She may not be a candidate for a contented house cat but given the circumstances, I'd be a little wound up too.  I don't think she'll loose muscle tone - at least not much.  Mothers of new kittens seldom get a lot of exercise - feeding the babies usually keep them glued in place anyway.

Again, keep her routine as much as possible.  Blessing on you for helping them all.

Oncine is right -most mother cats with nursing babies spend so much time with their babies nursing, cleaning, etc that they get very little exercise during nursing time normally. So don't worry about muscle tone at this point.

A large portion of her aggression is likely protectiveness- even in her "normal" life she'd naturally be completely on edge--doing everything she can to keep her kittens safe, undiscovered & alive (outside kittens have an EXTREMELY high death rate). Even though YOU know she's in a safer place -she doesn't know that. She's in a strange place where (in her mind) danger for her kittens is even more real. She's gone from what would normally be high-alert anyway to majorly-overdrive-high-alert, (again, WE know she's safer, but her little brain doesn't).

I would definitely - as Ondine says -watch that kittens aren't being injured (feelers for bottle feeding help -should it come to that -is a great idea). But if they're fine -they'll greatly benefit in the long run from being nursed the full time if possible at all. They receive so much from the nursing -& learn so much from mom even in the short time it takes to nurse-that it's SO worth it if it's possible at all. Even if it means releasing her after spaying -which is obviously one possible outcome. You might end up being surprised though!

I'd treat it (& have been in your situation and have treated it this way) as socializing the whole group - not just the kittens -if at all possible. Yes, it's very probable she'll need to be re-released post spay -but it can't hurt to at least try to get her more comfortable with you! That way, even after release, you've got a better chance of maintaining a "post release relationship" with her, so that you can monitor her health & get her into vet if necessary (hopefully you'll be able to provide her with food, water & shelter post-release). Of course socializing a feral adult doesn't always work (some of ours haven't)....& is tougher going but not a bad goal! The kittens should obviously be the focus as far as socialization, since they've got an almost 100% shot at being totally socializeD!!!

You mention you have her in your bedroom -that can be a plus and a minus. Plus in that she & kittens will have more exposure to you -& lots of exposure is a BIG plus. But it can be negative if she feels overexposed AND if you (& anyone using the bedroom) doesn't always keep in mind she's in there & on super-high alert 24/7. I'd make sure when you enter the room you always "warn her" you're coming....knock softly, I even start sing/songing in a high, soft voice before I enter our Foster room so they're never surprised by me. When in the room, I'd talk/sing to them ALOT, in a high, feminine, very soft, quiet voice (it's been proven cats are less frightened of soft, higher-pitched -ie female-voices). If there's an unavoidable amount of traffic (like several family members using an attached bathroom/frantic getting ready/loud noises/etc) you might consider putting them in another room such as a spare bedroom if possible at least here initially.

When you are with them, I highly recommend being as low to the ground (sitting or lying on ground) to be as non-threatening as possible. I'd chat/sing softly while sitting/lying as much as possible--I read aloud to my fosters --bring the iPad in & read anything I'm surfing out loud even. While doing this, at this stage I avoid direct eye contact with mom...the kittens I'd make eye contact with (just don't threaten mom while doing so!). I leave a radio/TV on 24/7 (public radio's great bc it's quiet w/soft music and I pick a station w/lots of talk) in my foster room. It serves 2 purposes - it familiarizes them & desensitizes them to human voices, and it helps block out the scary random noises we don't even think about that happen in a house (toilet flushing randomly, shower starting, traffic sounds, loud conversations, phones ringing, doors opening & closing, etc).

You mention they're in a large cat cage/playpen-is it like a big wire dog crate? (I'm just trying to picture so I can advise better). You mention she has a nesting box - does it have a top or is it open? At this point I probably wouldn't try to move them into anything new but she may be feeling too exposed. I Always -at this stage -particularly with mom/nursing kittens-cover the crate on top & three sides with beach towels to further enhance the feeling of security. Leave the front totally uncovered, & maybe even about a quarter of the top & sides uncovered too so that she feels secure from all sides but still gets plenty of light (otherwise she feels, understandably, exposed to prey from all sides, which is nervewracking). In the beginning, at night I cover the entire crate with towels to really give her "decompression/security time." I can't stress enough how much that small thing can add so much comfort.

She's obviously nervous leaving the nesting box (& her kittens!!! As a lot of nursing moms are anyway -feral or not) to eat/drink/use the box ---and all are critical for nursing mom! Covering the cage/crate should help that quite a bit fairly quickly but you might also consider moving food/water/litter as close as possible to nesting box. Normally you want some distance between sleeping area, food/water & litter....but in this case I might put all pretty close. Since she's obviously terrified herself & therefore terrified for her babies-it might make her more comfortable. At this stage I'm sure you're nervous about reaching in & moving things around---sometimes I've done it with heavy-duty gloves (thick leather -the longer the better-gardening gloves are good). I've also moved things around when I'm working with an aggressive cat with barbecue tongs -from outside cage if necessary. Obviously you need to balance exposing/socializing kittens to you with terrifying her. It's still VERY early & you've got lots of time with kittens!!

When you come in the room I also always bring in a high yum-factor treat when I come in the room ----like a dab of tuna or mackerel, Gerbers chicken baby food, cooked plain chicken breast meat, soft cat food, etc. I often warm it VERY slightly as that enhances the smell -making it more it irresistible! You can slip it into her bowl with a long-handled spoon from outside the crate since she's still so scared - but it often helps them start to see you as the "bringer of yummy things", not just the scary giant who makes weird noises

I always also have a feliway plug going. Not sure it always helps -but can't hurt!!!

Keep us postec -it's not an easy process but you're doing a wonderful, kind thing --probably saving her life (even if you spay & release -at least you'll save her from a short life of being constantly hunted by toms & pumping out litter after litter!!!) and definitely saving the lives of the babies! They'll now have whole new, much longer, much safer lives!!! But I really do strongly recommend you try some of the suggestions so that her time with you is more comfortable so that you CAN keep her with kittens until they're weaned -it's so much better for them!!!

Good luck -keep us posted-& don't be afraid to ask questions!!! Lots of caring folks on this forum who've helped me survive some rough times!