Is this starving stray pregnant, or has she had her kittens?/ Thomas

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segelkatt

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@Norachan, you're right.  I'm definitely going to put that proposal to the RSPCA.  If they don't have that practice now, I will suggest they take it up.  

I do like the way the refuge puts high prices on kittens. They still sell the kittens at that price (and they deserve it for the investment they make in them with surgery, medication, vaccinations, etc), and anyone who pays $300 for a non-pedigree cat must really want them and value them. That kind of person, I reckon, would also value receiving kitten photos and background information from a foster carer.  
I think $300.00 for a rescued kitten is outrageous. No wonder people won't adopt from a shelter and cats and kittens are either "put down", languish in shelters forever or a shuffled from one to another when there are free kittens advertised every spring by people who have not neutered their cats.. Here the usual charge in a regular shelter is under $100.00, "senior" (over 8 years) are less expensive and if a "senior" human adopts a "senior" cat in many instances it is free.

Our cat club does not charge more than $50.00 to a person from outside the club and nothing to a member, the club even helps pay for any expenses that a member incurs from an adopted cat beyond the usual, like a surgery or special vet visits. Of course, donations are always accepted, ( my cat's new mom  donated an extra $50.00 when she adopted him and has donated more money since then), we have a boutique including a bake sale and a raffle with prizes donated by local merchants and restaurants twice a year which brings in $5,000 plus every time. Before a cat is adopted out or fostered the cat is taken to the vet, checked for microchips, de-fleaed if needed, receives all shots, has any surgeries or other procedures (like spaying) necessary.

Almost all of our fosters have cats of their own so it is not as hard to give one up that has found a forever home, thus the foster does not have an empty home and the cats have been socialized with other cats (or found not to be compatible with other cats as I found out with mine).Whoever finds a cat in our community immediately calls the cat club (we are a closed condo community of people over 55, not an old folks' home, everybody owns or rents their own home) and everybody knows that there is a cat club which takes in found and abandoned cats, including those where the owner has died and there is no family to take them. The cat club then immediately finds someone who will foster that cat so the cat is never in a cage but for the time it takes to transfer it. We also care for one feral colony which has been about 5 cats for the last 5 or so years due to TNR. We keep hoping that it will eventually die out but apparently another cat will join the colony whenever one of them disappears. The colony has not had any kittens in the last two years so TNR works so far. But we do find a nest including mama which does not appear to be feral but a stray every once in a while on the periphery of the community, so we figure that the stray has just found a place relatively safe which she had not found in her previous community.

My avatar cat was found, even had a microchip but it was out of date so the owners could not be found. Last known address was in a neighboring community. We think the cat got out during a move to our community and the owners did not yet know about our cat club to inquire if he had been found. Now of course he is mine and we love each other to death.      
 

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Thanks so much for your post, @segelkatt
 .  Your re-homed kitten (a stunner, by the way - I'd love to own a MC) certainly looks settled and happy with his new life. 

It's wonderful you can keep in contact with the owner, but when you foster
through the RSPCA here in Australia, and this applies to our other big network of refuges, you can't make contact with the new owner. Their details are confidential
 I'll check again with them, but I'm pretty sure that rule still applies.

So unfortunately I can't make any conditions, given the kittens are legally owned by the RSPCA.  :(
I'm sorry. I don't understand how these kittens belong to the RSCPA. The mummy came to you. You spent five weeks looking for a babies. How do they belong to them and not to you.
$300 each. Sounds like they don't want to let the kitties go. Here its just under $100 including everything.
Please explain this ridiculousness.
Scream.
 
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I'm sorry. I don't understand how these kittens belong to the RSCPA. The mummy came to you. You spent five weeks looking for a babies. How do they belong to them and not to you.
$300 each. Sounds like they don't want to let the kitties go. Here its just under $100 including everything.
Please explain this ridiculousness.
Scream.
You're right, my friend got her cat Leo for I think $60.

@peony
, I'm sure there are just as cute and cuter kitties much closer to you, and you wouldn't have to save up for a ticket to Australia!   I hope you get to have one (or more) kittens one day. And by the way, your parents chose the most beautiful name for you. :)
Peony's actually my cat, if that's what you mean.
That last statement confused me a little.
 
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checkers

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Sorry @peony!  For some reason I thought it was your name. Of  course, it's your cat.  Whoever named your cat chose a beautiful name.  They are one of my favourite flowers. 
 

Norachan

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I'm sorry. I don't understand how these kittens belong to the RSCPA. The mummy came to you. You spent five weeks looking for a babies. How do they belong to them and not to you.
$300 each. Sounds like they don't want to let the kitties go. Here its just under $100 including everything.
Please explain this ridiculousness.
Scream.
If you want a shelter to help you rehome kittens or cats you have to sign a form saying you'll turn them over to that shelter. It's the same here. In Japan people pay upwards of $500 dollars for a cat from a shelter, but that covers spaying/neutering, vaccines, blood tests and micro-chips. It sounds like a lot I know, but the shelters need to make back all the money they spent on the kittens, plus a little more to help those who have more serious health issues or stay in the shelters longer.

But if someone has spent that much on a kitten they think more seriously about adopting one and don't turn them back in to the shelter or dump them as soon as they have any problems, right? So it's good to charge people a bit more for them.
 

mani

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But if someone has spent that much on a kitten they think more seriously about adopting one and don't turn them back in to the shelter or dump them as soon as they have any problems, right? So it's good to charge people a bit more for them.
Absolutely!  I know when people would come to the place where I worked and complain about the price we would let them know what it covers (all health costs, spaying etc).  And people who want really cheap animals I find a little dubious, for the reasons Norochan mentioned.

I remember someone asking me whether they could pay in installments.  I asked them, if you don't have the money to buy it, how are you going to feed and look after it?

Sometimes there are 'specials' when there are just too many cats.  But honestly, to me it's completely justifiable.  Say your cat is with you for 15 years.. that's $20 a year... or 48c a week. 

Pretty good value for a gorgeous companion, I reckon.
  (and nothing compared to the cost of food, vets etc).
 
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checkers

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 I'm sorry. I don't understand how these kittens belong to the RSCPA. The mummy came to you. You spent five weeks looking for a babies. How do they belong to them and not to you.
$300 each. Sounds like they don't want to let the kitties go. Here its just under $100 including everything.
Please explain this ridiculousness.
 I think $300.00 for a rescued kitten is outrageous. No wonder people won't adopt from a shelter and cats and kittens are either "put down", languish in shelters forever or a shuffled from one to another when there are free kittens advertised every spring by people who have not neutered their cats.. Here the usual charge in a regular shelter is under $100.00, "senior" (over 8 years) are less expensive and if a "senior" human adopts a "senior" cat in many instances it is free....
@Stewball, and @segelkatt, I know it sounds crazy given the work I put into finding these kittens, but when I found them (thanks to the help of the RSPCA's tracker) I handed them over to the RSPCA who did health checks and the necessary meds at that time.  I relinquished ownership and signed them over to the RSPCA as the new owners. This allowed the RSPCA to do what was needed prior to putting them up for adoption.  As they were too young for adoption, the RSPCA then had to find a foster home (or homes) for them until they reach de-sexing stage after which they are adopted.  
 

The RSPCA asked if I would like to foster three of the five kittens. I agreed to that on a trial basis.  While I've had them these last 3 weeks the RSPCA supplied everything - the food, litter and tray, worming and flea meds,  and anything else I needed. They will pay for the de-sexing and vaccinations, and ongoing meds until they are adopted.  

They are due for their vaccinations this weekend, so I will take them into the shelter for that.  I weighed Ginge (the lightest) last night and she is now up to 1.1kg, so they may take them from me on that visit.  

So, in fostering I've helped the RSPCA with the intensive care needed for kittens while they were maturing, giving my time and attention, but I no longer have ownership.  If I want to adopt them, I can.  I don't know the price they will put on them, but when I look at their website, all the kittens are $200 to $300 each (that's about $US 240).  They told me once they never have to put down kittens unless they are really ill, and they never have trouble selling their kittens; at that price, it suggests people are willing to pay for healthy, well-adjusted, tried-and-tested babies. 

The question of what price to put on a cat or kitten is so debatable. I understand both arguments.  But I cringe when I see kittens advertised for free or very cheap in the paper, online, or on roadside signs.  I fear the type of people who might take them.  I'm sure there would be many trustworthy takers, but amongst them would be the ones who hadn't thought it through, who couldn't afford to keep a cat, who would neglect a cat once their children no longer had time for their toy, and, as much as I hate saying it, people who would be cruel to them or use them for bait for greyhounds, etc.  If the RSPCA puts a price on them which covers their costs of de-sexing, meds, etc., and people accept it, then I think it's great.  It keeps the RSPCA going and avoids the irresponsible or criminal element.  

The big refuges here in Australia do have 'specials' from time to time when they are overrun with adult cats, but I haven't seen kittens on special.  They are very popular, fortunately. 

I rescued a lovely dog a few years ago. It was a sad story I won't go into, but I had to find it a home in a hurry.  It was a healthy, well adjusted, large dog. I advertised it, describing it in detail.  I put $120 on it.  I had a couple of inquiries and interviewed the people over the phone.   I decided on the best family for the dog. They were ideal, and when they came to get him  I wouldn't take the money. They said they didn't understand, but I explained I was just trying to avoid the wrong kind of customer, so they were chuffed.  The dog sat up proudly in the car with two little boys hugging him as they drove away. 
 
 
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checkers

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 Our cat club does not charge more than $50.00 to a person from outside the club and nothing to a member, the club even helps pay for any expenses that a member incurs from an adopted cat beyond the usual, like a surgery or special vet visits. Of course, donations are always accepted, ( my cat's new mom  donated an extra $50.00 when she adopted him and has donated more money since then)
@segelkatt, I just love the sound of your cat club and your community.  I think it is brilliant.  I hope it gets some good publicity.  Wouldn't it be wonderful if it could be a model for other similar communities to form. 
 

kntrygrl256

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Absolutely!  I know when people would come to the place where I worked and complain about the price we would let them know what it covers (all health costs, spaying etc).  And people who want really cheap animals I find a little dubious, for the reasons Norochan mentioned.

I remember someone asking me whether they could pay in installments.  I asked them, if you don't have the money to buy it, how are you going to feed and look after it?

Sometimes there are 'specials' when there are just too many cats.  But honestly, to me it's completely justifiable.  Say your cat is with you for 15 years.. that's $20 a year... or 48c a week. 

Pretty good value for a gorgeous companion, I reckon.
  (and nothing compared to the cost of food, vets etc).
That is so true. When Luci was sick, I didn't think twice about paying $200+ for her medical bill. If you want a companion bad enough you don't mind paying the extra costs at the beginning. It saves you in the long run. Between having my boys neutered, shots and check up, I have spent almost that amount so to me it's worth it.
 
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checkers

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Sleeping positions

It hasn’t ceased to amaze me the awkward positions the kittens get themselves in to sleep. And never does one get angry at another for interrupting their sleep by plonking on top of them. They just wriggle a little to get more comfortable and drop off to sleep again.

Tonight’s play ended in them all jumping up on the ‘leg doona’ again, and messing around a bit before they finally fell asleep.  



They weren't playing here. They were settling in for a sleep. Poor Minstrel (B&W).

and socialisation

I’ve been really pleased at the way the kittens have responded to visitors. They observe them with a little caution to start with, and when the visitors pick them up they generally settle in and in no time totally accept them.

They’ve been winning a few hearts lately, especially of children asking for return visits.


Ginge in is favourite position - on your shoulder.  Didn't matter that he had only just met this visitor. 

We have a lot of  scratches across the back of our necks and shoulders, which must look a bit curious to those who don't know the explanation.


My friend has trouble getting her son to leave when they come for a visit. We've never had this trouble before.
 
 
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kntrygrl256

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That is just awesome. I love the first picture of the 3. It looks like Ginge is laughing because she's laying on top of Minstrel. The way she crosses her front paws is adorable. Thanks @Checkers  for making me smile once again during this sad time.
 
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  It looks like Ginge is laughing because she's laying on top of Minstrel. The way she crosses her front paws is adorable. Thanks @Checkers  for making me smile once again during this sad time.
@kntrygrl256, it sure does look like that. And Ginge seems to be the only one of three who crosses her paws like that. She is such a character. Glad they made you smile. I hope the return of your precious cat comes very soon.
 
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Sleeping positions





It hasn’t ceased to amaze me the awkward positions the kittens get themselves in to sleep. And never does one get angry at another for interrupting their sleep by plonking on top of them. They just wriggle a little to get more comfortable and drop off to sleep again.



 



Tonight’s play ended in them all jumping up on the ‘leg doona’ again, and messing around a bit before they finally fell asleep. 










They weren't playing here. They were settling in for a sleep. Poor Minstrel (B&W).


and socialisation



 



I’ve been really pleased at the way the kittens have responded to visitors. They observe them with a little caution to start with, and when the visitors pick them up they generally settle in and in no time totally accept them.





They’ve been winning a few hearts lately, especially of children asking for return visits.









Ginge in is favourite position - on your shoulder.  Didn't matter that he had only just met this visitor. 
We have a lot of  scratches across the back of our necks and shoulders, which must look a bit curious to those who don't know the explanation.


My friend has trouble getting her son to leave when they come for a visit. We've never had this trouble before. :lol3:  
Minstrel is so cute in that last picture!
 
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checkers

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 How are things going with the 3 babies. I've been looking for an update. I hope all is well.
@kntrygrl256, they are going beautifully, thank you.  Tomorrow I take them for their vaccinations, health check and weigh-in.  As they have all reached (exceeded!) their goal weight for de-sexing and adoption, I expect the RSPCA will want them back. If they are full-up with kittens at present, they may ask me to keep them a little longer. But tomorrow may well be my last day with them.

I haven't found a home for any of them - not that I have to, but I was hoping I'd be able to do that with a responsible new owner I could keep in touch with, and then  I could ask the RSPCA to reserve them for a particular adopter after the de-sexing. 

I'll keep you posted.  Took a few more photos last night which I'm yet to download and then I'll pop some up on this thread.
 

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It's over then? No chance of keeping the three, or even Ginge? It's been fabulous. Thank you for sharing! And good luck to them and to you going forward! :)
 
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 I used to get a little booklet of photos printed out with a few lines in there about when the kitten was born, how many others were in the litter that kind of thing, It's always nice for people to see their new kitten's baby photos, and if there are a few pictures of siblings or mum and dad in there too they can see where the kitten gets his/her colouring from.
You've taken so many lovely photos checkers, I'm sure whoever ends up with these kittens would love to see some of them.
@Norachan, inspired by your comments above, I have put together a booklet on Ginge, with information about her, photos of her mother (father unknown), and a photo of the entire litter. I've then included photos of Ginge throughout the weeks I've had her, with little captions.  I'll give it to the RSPCA tomorrow when I take the kittens in for vaccinations and check-up, and likely handover for de-sexing and adoption.


If the refuge likes the concept, I'll do up a book for the other two kittens. (I won't do the remaining two until I find out if they can be used, as they're a bit of work.)

Thanks @Norachan, I think it's a great idea. I would really value it if I was adopting.
 

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Oh dear...


Do let me know if they have to go in, @Checkers

I may call in and see them..
 
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 It's over then? No chance of keeping the three, or even Ginge? It's been fabulous. Thank you for sharing!
Thank you @sarthur2. It has been wonderful sharing too. This forum has been a wonderful source of information and fun.

 It's not looking like I'll be able to adopt any of them due to my mother's skin and trip issues.  I asked her again today, just in case, but she really feels she can't cope and I don't want to make her a prisoner in her own (well, 'my') home. 

I'll post an update after tomorrow's interview at the refuge, and will put some photos from the last 24 hours up in the next few mins.
 
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