What to use instead of Alnutrin for Cats with Hare Today’s Ground Rabbit/Bones/Organs?

[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <wunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <woNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <wontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <wontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <wontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <wontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument></xml><![endif][if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="true" DefSemiHidden="true" DefQFormat="false" DefPriority="99" LatentStyleCount="267"> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="0" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Normal"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="heading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 8"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 9"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 7"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 8"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" Name="toc 9"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="35" QFormat="true" Name="caption"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="10" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" Name="Default Paragraph Font"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="11" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtitle"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="22" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Strong"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="20" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="59" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Table Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Placeholder Text"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="1" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="No Spacing"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Revision"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="34" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="List Paragraph"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="29" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Quote"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="30" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Quote"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="60" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Shading Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="61" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="62" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Light Grid Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="63" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="64" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Shading 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="65" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="66" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium List 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="67" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 1 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="68" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="69" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Medium Grid 3 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="70" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Dark List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="71" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Shading Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="72" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful List Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="73" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" Name="Colorful Grid Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="19" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="21" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Emphasis"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/> </w:LatentStyles></xml><![endif][if gte mso 10]><style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;mso-style-noshow:yes;mso-style-priority:99;mso-style-qformat:yes;mso-style-parent:"";mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;mso-para-margin:0in;mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-pagination:widow-orphan;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;}</style><![endif]

I could really use y'all's help!

I've an adult cat that has had a serious gastrointestinal issue all his life.  Virtually every food ever tried with him, and that's quite a few kinds of food (including canned, dry and raw, and always gradually introduced), prompts him to have diarrhea and sometimes vomiting within a week of starting the diet, and then to refuse not only that diet but any food at all for some time thereafter.  Sometimes I've wondered whether he was ever going to start eating again, and he's resisted long enough that his condition has at times seriously degraded as a result.  He has a thick file accumulated from seeing numerous vets and having numerous tests done over the first couple of years of his life, with no clear diagnosis and more importantly no recommendation on how to improve things.

He really turned around when I found Feline's Pride's (raw meat) Rabbit Formula.  I mean, he was like a whole new, happy and healthy kitty!  That's what he not only lived on but I'd say downright thrived on for several years.  But then around the beginning of this year Feline's Pride became an uncaring rip-off rather than a reliable supplier of, in my case, very much-needed cat food.  (See the thread I started on this subject at http://www.thecatsite.com/t/291787/experience-with-felines-pride for the full story.)  I actually joined this forum to warn people about what's been going on at Feline's Pride and to ask for suggestions on a replacement cat food.  I've since been working my way through those suggestions.

I thought maybe I had a good new solution when my cat managed to eat Primal's Feline (raw meat) Rabbit Formula without getting sick.  But he never really seemed to like it, and maybe even less and less during the relatively brief period I fed it to him.

This week I started feeding him Hare Today's (raw) Ground Rabbit/Bones/Organs combined with the supplement Alnutrin for Cats per Hare Today's instructions.  I figured this was surely going to work for my boy, being so rabbit-based as it is, and he certainly took to it avidly.  Until today.  This morning he refused breakfast, then had diarrhea.  This afternoon he refused lunch, too, and for good measure had more diarrhea and threw up.  It's the bad, old days returned, just as I feared when Feline's Pride left me in the lurch.

I have to believe it's something in the Alnutrin for Cats.  After all, the remainder is just good, fresh rabbit, and he's done well on a rabbit-based diet all these years.  So...

What would you recommend that I use to supplement Hare Today's Ground Rabbit/Bones/Organs rather than Alnutrin for Cats?   I'm OK with putting together my own ingredients rather than buying something already prepared, so please feel free to suggest whatever you think might be most likely to do the job for me.  I don't know exactly which ingredient(s) in Alnutrin for Cats is (or are) causing the problem, unfortunately, and although I'd certainly like to know, it's much more important to me just to get my kitty back to health and happiness without him suffering any more than absolutely necessary.  I suppose the problem ingredient(s) can be narrowed down a bit, anyway, by looking to see what Alnutrin for Cats (which is presumably causing my boy his current problem) has that Feline’s Pride’s Rabbit Formula (which never caused him any problems in all the years he ate it) doesn’t.  (Insert curse aimed at Feline’s Pride for becoming so uncaring and unreliable here!  >:^(  )

Thanks in advance and very much for any and all help you can provide!

Gerry

Check on Lisa Pierson DVM's site -She makes a raw, and uses her own supplements. The rabbit usually has enough bone etc. but she has a recipe.

Thanks, Anne!  I now have my boy past the illness phase and eating again (back to the Primal Feline Rabbit Formula, which he still doesn't seem to care for very much), so in another week or so I'll be trying the Hare Today Ground Rabbit/Bones/Organs again.  I'll read up on things at Dr. Pierson's website to see what advice it holds for me on how to do so without relying on the Alnutrin for Cats.

Anyone else have thoughts or suggestions on how to supplement or what preparation to buy to supplement that Hare Today diet?

Gerry

You will basically only need taurine, salmon/krill oil, vitamin E, vitamin B, egg yolks and lite salt I believe. If you click on the link that I attached below it will bring you to a recipe page on a well respected website called Feline-Nutrition.org.

Their recipe is "from scratch" so they tell you how much meat/bone/organ to include and grind but you can substitute that part (pound-for-pound) with your already ground meat/bone/organ mix from Hare Today.

http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/making-raw-cat-food-for-do-it-yourselfers

Similar with yours, I supplement my cat with vitamins to ensure her health is in good condition. If you're looking for another, I am suggesting OmNutra Pet Probiotics. Almost all nutrients needed by cat are included in this Probiotics. Hope this helps.

Rosalie Sorg said:

 
Similar with yours, I supplement my cat with vitamins to ensure her health is in good condition. If you're looking for another, I am suggesting OmNutra Pet Probiotics. Almost all nutrients needed by cat are included in this Probiotics. Hope this helps.

Click to expand...

This product CANNOT  be used to make a food nutritionally complete and balanced. It is a probiotic only. It contains none of the vitamins or minerals essential to making a cat food nutritionally complete.

Thanks for the suggestion, Abby.  And the good intention, Rosalie!  And the important cautionary note, mschauer!  :^]

This is such a useful online community, I only wish I'd found it sooner!

Gerry

Here's my basic recipe, which I use with the whole rabbit grind. I usually "dilute" the whole grind with boneless meat (2.25 lbs whole grind to .75 boneless muscle meat (beef in my case)) to avoid constipation problems. The straight-up whole rabbit seems to have too much bone. I don't add the egg yolks because my cat is allergic to chicken, but you may want to include them. This recipe is based on the catinfo.org recipe from Dr. Pierson and information I have learned on this forum.
FYI, I use a daily probiotic as well, but I sprinkle that on when I serve the food. My understanding is that probiotics don't survive freezing.

mschauer said:

 
This product CANNOT  be used to make a food nutritionally complete and balanced. It is a probiotic only. It contains none of the vitamins or minerals essential to making a cat food nutritionally complete.

Click to expand...

But I think at least it will lessen a chance that your pet will encounter disease.

Thanks for the recipe mschauer!

How did you arrive at 7000mg of fish oil?  I thought Dr. Pierson's site recommended 2000 or 4000, which is what I've been using.  I also sometimes skimp when using Hare Today products because they're less likely to be grainfed than grocery meats.

sophie1 said:

 
Thanks for the recipe mschauer!

How did you arrive at 7000mg of fish oil?  I thought Dr. Pierson's site recommended 2000 or 4000, which is what I've been using.  I also sometimes skimp when using Hare Today products because they're less likely to be grainfed than grocery meats.

Click to expand...

I haven't posted a recipe. Maybe you mean @silverpersian?

This is from the recipe currently on catinfo.org. I think the amount was updated in September.

"5000 - 10,000 mg fish oil (5-10 capsules of the average 1,000 mg capsule) - I use 10 capsules for my cats. Fish oil is a good source of essential fatty acids - note that this is increased from the original amount of 2,000 mg - if your cat does not like fish, it is ok to use only 2,000 mg. Do NOT use cod liver oil! There is already plenty of vitamin A and D in the liver we are using."

I use 7000 instead of 10000 (the upper limit suggested) because I occasionally feed half a sardine or a bit of canned salmon as a treat.

Ah.  Like you said in the other thread, it's hard to pick up everything in that recipe.  I thought she meant 10,000 for big batches.

Gerry and all,

I think in this life I should have become a chemist because preparing a species appropriate, raw diet for your fur child is one heck of a daunting task! This is my first post as a new member and this thread is exactly the kind of assistance I was looking for and was going to post the same thing Gerry-thanks!

I have fed Feline's Pride to my two, 7.5 year old brothers right from mother's milk. Shelby Gomas, the wonderful man that created feline's pride was my friend and we both had diabetic cats 12 years ago and were seeking an answer as to why our cats were sick. He created a great raw diet. My cats have seriously thrived their entire lives on it.

Well as far as I am concerned FP is now gone, since last December, and I have to learn how to make a raw diet myself....

There are so many versions-each tweaked a little differently-with psyllium...without psyllium-more salmon oil-less salmon oil...more bone...less bones...there are so many variations-how do you know which one is right? I am losing my mind over trying to figure this out

I kept all the ingredient labels from FP all these years.

Hare-Today looks like an excellent product and a great, reputable company with many testimonials and they are only a couple of states away so that will be my food base-the 5 pound tubes.(Chicken, Rabbit, Turkey)

Silverpersian-I don't remember manganese being in Dr. Pierson's recipe?

Is there a raw recipe to mix with a 5lb tube of raw food anywhere?

Gerry-thank you for bringing this up. I love my cats and I don't want to make them sick. As it is, changing their food is going to be hard on them right???

Thank you all-Mary

MaryKH said:

 
Is there a raw recipe to mix with a 5lb tube of raw food anywhere?

Click to expand...

Most recipies I've seen are for 2 lbs of meat. What you can do is use 10 lbs of meat (two 5 lb chubs) and adjust the rest of the recipie accordingly.

Here's a recipe that calls for 4.5 lbs of raw chicken with bone: http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/making-raw-cat-food-for-do-it-yourselfers

You could also try this raw food calculator to figure out how much supplements you would need for 5 lbs of meat: http://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com/RecipeBasicnonmetric.htm

MaryKH, mschauer is very knowledgeable and runs analysis on recipes to determine whether they are nutritionally complete. The manganese recommendation came from mschauer .

Edited to add that I have a spreadsheet for calculating the supplements needed for various amounts of meat. I would be happy to post the amounts for 5 lbs. if you still need them.

The recipe on felinenutrition.org appears to be derived from the recipe on Anne Jablonski's site:  http://www.catnutrition.org/recipes.html, but apparently with a couple of errors:  the felinenutrition recipe calls for 200 IU vitamin E and 1 cup water, but the catnutrition.org recipe calls for 800 IU and 2 cups water.  The 800 IU dose appears more likely to be correct - that's 2 vitamin E caps, as opposed to 1/2.

Also the catnutrition.org recipe is apparently based on Lisa Pierson's recipe, but there are several inconsistencies - does anyone know which is correct?  Here are the ones I saw:

Lisa Pierson (3 lbs meat/bone/organ):  50 mg vitamin B complex, 5,000 - 10,000 fish oil, and 2,000mg taurine.  Add liver and lite salt only if not using whole ground rabbit.

Catnutrition.org (~6 lbs meat/bone/organ):  200mg vitamin B complex, 4,000mg fish oil, 2,000mg taurine plus chicken hearts or 6,000mg taurine.  Add liver and lite salt regardless of meat/bone/organ source.

So the catnutrition recipe uses double the vitamin B, less than half the fish oil, and about 1/3 more taurine.  Additionally, catnutrition.org calls for using extra meat to dilute the bone content of the whole rabbit grind, or removing bones from chicken thighs as Dr. Pierson suggests on her website - but then goes on to add an additional 14 oz chicken hearts, which would dilute the bone content further.

I have to say these inconsistencies are leaving me a bit confused - though at the same time reassured, because it's likely that cat nutrition (like ours) is at least somewhat forgiving of recipe variations.  Which is a good thing, because I've been using Lisa Pierson's 3 lb recipe for 4 lb batches, then recently started adding extra boneless meat...so I guess I should be doubling the supplements.  With everyone's permission, the catnutrition.org recipe, adjusted to match the catinfo.org recipe, would be:

4.4 lbs chicken thighs  OR 4 or 5 lbs ground whole carcass e.g. rabbit

7 oz chicken liver if not using ground whole carcass

1 lb boneless meat (heart or something else)

2 cups water

4 eggs

4 capsules glandular supplement

2,000 mg taurine, or 4,000 mg if the boneless meat is not heart

4,000 mg fish oil

100 mg vitamin B (2 caps) 

800 IU vitamin E (2 caps)

1.5 tsp Morton Lite Salt, if not using whole ground carcass

Does everyone agree???  It would be nice to have a canonical catsite.org raw recipe, to go with the carefully researched cooked recipes from mschauer.

Dr. Pierson's recipe was originally based on Anne Jablonski's. She was introduced to raw feeding by Anne. Their recipes have diverged a bit over the years.

It's hard to label a recipe as "right" or "wrong". There are several different, and in some ways, contradictory ways to judge the correctness of a home-made cat food. The analyses I do and that have been referred to in above posts use the published AAFCO recommendations as the standard for correctness. Some people are satisfied that their foods are nutritionally adequate without knowing how they stack up against the AAFCO recommendations. For a discussion of that topic see this  thread: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/261571/the-problem-with-home-made-diets-and-how-to-analyze-your-diet

Dr. P and Anne Jablonski are in the "don't follow the AAFCO recommendations" camp. Their recipes have been used by many people for years with no known adverse affects. 

Thanks for that thread pointer - very helpful!

It was nice to get a reminder that it's important to feed cats a good variety of meats, and not go overboard on supplements.

Thank you all for your help.

What about the recipe for the 5 pounds where the organs are not broken out but included within the five pounds?

Why the glandular supplement?

So far I know for sure I will add:

water

egg yolks

fish oil

taurine

Vit B supp

Vit E supp

lite salt (but not with rabbit)

This seems to be standard with all my research-still figuring out amounts-but Sophie 1-yours seem to be the most common for the raw feeders.

I admit- I am struggling with getting it right.  I don't want my boys to get sick or not get the proper nutrition here

Thanks All!!

Mary

Mschauer-I will check out that thread you suggested