sarcoma....your thoughts please

I'm pretty devastated as it's only been 6 months since losing Minnie... now her littermate/sister Mikki most likely has sarcoma. She has a firm bump on her lower leg and we took her to the vet today. Just by feel, the vet felt pretty confident that's what it is, then they tried to do a needle aspiration and basically blood came out..which coincides with sarcoma tumors. They couldn't get any cells to send in, thus we will have to reschedule to get an indepth partial removal of the tumor for proper diagnosis. Because of the location, the vet felt they most likely cannot simply remove the complete tumor so the only option will be amputation if we want to make sure we get it all.

I don't know how quickly these things spread...or how soon it would affect her health..she walks, jumps, eats, uses litterbox just fine. Since losing Minnie she totally has changed... clingy and meows in the night a lot more..even in the day sometimes.... which of course could mean she's not feeling up to par instead of what we thought may have been grieving at first...then we thought her meowing may have become a habit. She did meow in the night even before Minnie was sick, only a few minutes after everyone would go to bed...kinda seperation anxiety but would come to us if we called her and was fine.

I am pretty "weak" at these kind of things...I take it all to heart and get all worked up when I think they're suffering. I can't imagine amputating a leg and doing that to her..especially if cancer should pop up in another spot after putting her through that... but ... I know they can adjust very well without all 4's. I think the back leg will be more difficult...no jumping... not sure how that affects balance in the litterbox?

She aldo has skin issues...gets a lil scab then will lick at it til it becomes a hot spot. Vet said allergy of some sort and gave her a steroid shot..(wasn't crazy about that but went with it this once) as Mik doesn't really seem to be an itchy cat... a spot appears then she goes after it... but I found an interesting article that inflamation issues can appear as skin issues... and it can be a gene thing...and can trigger sarcomas... in that case a tumor could pop up anywhere... my mind is all over the place ...

Hubby is all for amputation especially if she would be cancer free. I'm going back and forth... wish I knew how quickly symptoms would affect her... our son had noticed it at Christmas and we "put it off" probably in denial , I wanted it looked at..hubby thought it's prolly just a fatty tissue thing..but it hasn't appeared to get any bigger since Christmas... and again, other than meowing more and cuddling more, she hasn't changed in other ways.

I'd appreciate knowing your views on this... I understand it's ultimately our decision for Mikki but would love to get different perspectives.
Here's my cuddle bug:

MnM said:

I'm pretty devastated as it's only been 6 months since losing Minnie... now her littermate/sister Mikki most likely has sarcoma. She has a firm bump on her lower leg and we took her to the vet today. Just by feel, the vet felt pretty confident that's what it is, then they tried to do a needle aspiration and basically blood came out..which coincides with sarcoma tumors. They couldn't get any cells to send in, thus we will have to reschedule to get an indepth partial removal of the tumor for proper diagnosis. Because of the location, the vet felt they most likely cannot simply remove the complete tumor so the only option will be amputation if we want to make sure we get it all.

I don't know how quickly these things spread...or how soon it would affect her health..she walks, jumps, eats, uses litterbox just fine. Since losing Minnie she totally has changed... clingy and meows in the night a lot more..even in the day sometimes.... which of course could mean she's not feeling up to par instead of what we thought may have been grieving at first...then we thought her meowing may have become a habit. She did meow in the night even before Minnie was sick, only a few minutes after everyone would go to bed...kinda seperation anxiety but would come to us if we called her and was fine.

I am pretty "weak" at these kind of things...I take it all to heart and get all worked up when I think they're suffering. I can't imagine amputating a leg and doing that to her..especially if cancer should pop up in another spot after putting her through that... but ... I know they can adjust very well without all 4's. I think the back leg will be more difficult...no jumping... not sure how that affects balance in the litterbox?

She aldo has skin issues...gets a lil scab then will lick at it til it becomes a hot spot. Vet said allergy of some sort and gave her a steroid shot..(wasn't crazy about that but went with it this once) as Mik doesn't really seem to be an itchy cat... a spot appears then she goes after it... but I found an interesting article that inflamation issues can appear as skin issues... and it can be a gene thing...and can trigger sarcomas... in that case a tumor could pop up anywhere... my mind is all over the place ...

Hubby is all for amputation especially if she would be cancer free. I'm going back and forth... wish I knew how quickly symptoms would affect her... our son had noticed it at Christmas and we "put it off" probably in denial , I wanted it looked at..hubby thought it's prolly just a fatty tissue thing..but it hasn't appeared to get any bigger since Christmas... and again, other than meowing more and cuddling more, she hasn't changed in other ways.

I'd appreciate knowing your views on this... I understand it's ultimately our decision for Mikki but would love to get different perspectives.
Here's my cuddle bug:
 

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If this was me I would want my vet's opinion on its likelihood of spreading after amputation, but my understanding of sarcomas especially when on the leg (sometimes vaccine induced by rabies vaccine) is that amputation is the only cure, and that if caught in time its very successful, so having said that and all things being equal I would amputate in a heartbeat.  I've been around many many 3 legged cats and they're fine.  They need exercise to strengthen the odd leg, but other than that it isn't an issue for them post recovery.  They don't think about it the way we do, or at all.  Without removal (by whatever means) if its malignant, then its fatal without treatment.  I would treat.

As far as they pop up other places that may be more true with fatty limpomas.....

If it's osteosarcoma (on the bone), it's a highly aggressive cancer that metastasizes quickly.  I wouldn't hesitate to do the amputation asap.  I have had heart-breaking experience with a dog and osteosarcoma- amputation and chemo couldn't save her- so I'm hoping yours has a different kind.  

Best wishes to you and 

Btw, just wondering where you read about the connection between hot spots and sarcomas.  I have a cat that gets hot spots when she's stressed and I really didn't need something else to stress over right now  

I probably Google too much
But here's the part where it mentions inflamation in skin conditions and possible connection to sarcomas


http://www.2ndchance.info/fibrosarcoma.htm

MnM said:

http://www.2ndchance.info/fibrosarcoma.htm

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The only significance of this is if you gave a rabies vaccine in that part of the leg where the lump is?  Vaccine induced fibroscarcomas are extremely rare, perhaps as low as 1 in 10,000, but regardless that's why rabies vaccines and vaccines in general are now given in the leg so you can save your cats life should this happen.  In the "old days" it was hard to cure because the vaccines where given in the back of the neck.  Now they are much easier to cure when given in the leg.

Did you have rabies vaccines given in that leg?

good question... if so, it would have been the first couple years of her life...as I don't think we've had any since living in AZ..and that's been 8 years. I will check our records to see if hubby has that info.
I think the lump is too low to be in an actual vaccination spot..it's about 4" up from her paw at the first bend in her leg.

I fully agree with @StephenQ  , absolutely, do not hesitate, get that leg removed, ASAP.

You will be SO amazed and relieved at how quickly cats adapt to 3 legs, it's nothing at all like in humans.

As it is, the lump was there months ago, so you are allowing time to do whatever it wants to do, but by no means think it's too late, no way, but I really urge you to decide to go ahead and amputate immediately.

BTW, you will not see any changes in behavior until it has far passed the point of no return, basically when it has taken over her entire body/system and done it's damage, and takes her life slowly.

Just get it off, and you will be very glad you made that decision, and soon.

Once off, they will biopsy it and see exactly what type it is/was.

I think 8 years is too long a time to make a connection between a rabies vaccine and a sarcoma but i am not 100% about that.

ok, thank you catwoman707. Due to the fact we weren't real comfortable with the vet they issued us... we planned on getting it biopsied to make absolutely sure. We felt if it was a "type" that had high chances of popping up elsewhere... we would think twice about putting her through an amputation if she may have cancer somewhere else.... I "assume" there would be tests to make sure she doesn't have it anywhere else? This vet didn't offer ANY type of scenario's. I had to ask EVERYTHING and under the shocking circumstances of the visit, I wasn't prepared. I have since been able to contact neighbors on our community facebook page for vet suggestions of serious surgeries and have gotten great responses of high recommendations ...

If that is the case and you are not happy with and plan to use that particular vet for the surgery then by all means, take her ASAP to the vet you choose. He/she will likely be much more comforting and tell you any/all possibilities regarding the type suspected, options, and you shouldn't need to pry answers out of a vet, they should know they are dealing with a precious family member who has a serious and urgent issue, and not giving vague replies, but be openly honest and clear about what their views are, any of the more likely scenarios, mentioning the not-so-likely ones, all of the questions you can possibly think of should be answered.

That's why they make the big bucks That's all part of being a veterinarian. 

VERY frustrating, I have met vets like this in my life, a big turn off, leaving you feeling lost and confused like that.......

StephenQ said:

 
I think 8 years is too long a time to make a connection between a rabies vaccine and a sarcoma but i am not 100% about that.

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Actually it can range anywhere from 2 months after vaccine to 10 years.

Her last temperment shot was in 2007, so it's been 8 years.

It's impossible to say whether it is caused by a vaccine of course, but just so you know, I have a cat rescue group and ALL kittens and cats are given their vaccines on their right front leg, close to the elbow. This is in the case of sarcoma developing, it can be amputated and save the cat's life.

One big thing here is, using modified live virus vaccines and using adjuvanted (killed) vaccines, which are 10 times more likely to cause sarcoma.

Your cats should be done with vaccines anyway, but in the future, just an fyi, always be sure they are given modified live vaccines. (MLV)

yeah, I was reading up on that about vets now giving them in the tail even due to that! Crazy!

It's soooo hard deciding which vet to use. I'm calling 2 tomorrow that have done surgeries on pets of people I know that specialize in surgeries and cancer.
Other factors thrown in there are distance... 12 miles isn't far but man, Mikki was slobbering and so stressed in the car that if it comes down between 2 vets I approve of..I will take the closest one! The one 12 miles away has a special care unit for cats which I LOVE. The other is about 3 miles.

The vet I took her to yesterday....oh my. I walked in, and behind the counter were about 10 dogs roaming behind the counter...and if one of the office workers entered the area and talked to the dogs they would all get excited and bark... I felt so bad for Mikki..she was stressed ENOUGH without that kind of greeting! Then on the way OUT..this lady had 2 huge dogs she was trying to put in her car... and we get right in front of her car, and her HORN goes off! I was so not feeling comfy at that place!!! The vet they assigned us was wishy washy and the only one scheduled to work that day... but the owner and head vet happened to be there for an exploratory so the assigned vet took Mikki out to have the owner look at her... then came back to relay that she definitely feels it is sarcoma. Why wouldn't the owner ... instead of passing along info to the assigned vet... take the curtesy to talk to us... as she's the surgeon as well.. the assigned one lacked confidence and now come to think of it... when she felt Mikki's tummy she kinda mumbled...there's some fatty deposits under there... which NOW makes me wonder if THAT is tumors or something.... yep, to another vet we go.

Just a question but when she is riding in the car, you do cover her carrier completely correct? This really helps the stress levels.

Yeah, SO not cool for the cats, or dogs for that matter, who come in to a vet stressed out already, only to have 10 dogs roaming and barking behind the counter?

Not good.

The lump itself, when you move her skin, does the lump stay stationary?

I didn't cover her carrier...will try that next time. I did wipe it down with feliway. As far as the bump, I only have felt it once and it definitely feels hard like a bone (to me) ... that's when I started googling cancer tumors in cats. Her heart and lungs sounded great (she said) .
I already felt good about the next vet I called.. just by the way the receptionist handled me. She said the vet himself or she will call me back as I basically gave her my story and said I was not told any scenerio's.. simply get it biopsied or amputated without any more info. I would "imagine" our next step will be an appointment with the new vet, but I hope it's the actual "biopsy" so we may have to prepare for sedation before taking her in. Or..who knows...maybe they do a blood test to see if there's cancer cells elsewhere first?

Thanks for your support.... I am not a very good "take charge of things" kind of girl ...hubby had to go to a bowling tournament and asked me to get moving on this...so that's what I'm doing. I'm a pretty confident person...except with things like this!!!

MnM said:

I didn't cover her carrier...will try that next time. I did wipe it down with feliway. As far as the bump, I only have felt it once and it definitely feels hard like a bone (to me) ... that's when I started googling cancer tumors in cats. Her heart and lungs sounded great (she said) .
I already felt good about the next vet I called.. just by the way the receptionist handled me. She said the vet himself or she will call me back as I basically gave her my story and said I was not told any scenerio's.. simply get it biopsied or amputated without any more info. I would "imagine" our next step will be an appointment with the new vet, but I hope it's the actual "biopsy" so we may have to prepare for sedation before taking her in. Or..who knows...maybe they do a blood test to see if there's cancer cells elsewhere first?

Thanks for your support.... I am not a very good "take charge of things" kind of girl ...hubby had to go to a bowling tournament and asked me to get moving on this...so that's what I'm doing. I'm a pretty confident person...except with things like this!!!

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It's okay, it's our weakness, our furry kids. Just like me, I AM a take charge, strong person,  I have great, helpful advice and many years of experience with cats, but when Krissy was diagnosed with pancreatits and IBD not long ago, I was whiny and needy, feeling lost. Probably made my co-advisors nuts  

I think next will be a consultation from the new vet, he will advise what he thinks is best, just be sure this is all done asap, time is very crucial with handling this.

I hope you are feeling okay about the amputation, which will very likely be the outcome. 

I also think that when a vet has a great reception, you can expect he will be caring and helpful too. It seems to work that way

well, he personally called me back at the end of his day! He was so easy to talk to and very informative. I asked if we needed to start from scratch with an aspiration again and he said no. Have Mikki fasted and they will do whatever type of biopsy (punch or wedge is what they call it) he feels necessary. I asked him about how far out appointments are and he said when I all on Monday... tell them I talked to him and said to get he right in. Sooner the better. His surgery schedule is also a month out but not in cases like Mikki's..they work her in.

funny how everything he said I have read online...kinda glad I was a bit educated beforehand. He said we won't put the cart in front of the horse..it's good to be prepared for extreme measures, but let's go step by step. The other thing I was thankful for was they do Xray of the chest and stuff and blood tests to rule out cancer in the rest of the body before amputating the leg so we know what we're dealing with. My stomach isn't wrenching right now... I have to have the attitude of "it is what it is" and we'll do our best to take care of it, but always Mikki's comfort levels in mind like we did Min.

Sounds to me that you have found the perfect vet for you and your girl!

What a huge difference it makes for them to go the extra length and call you, explaining things clearly

I'll say!