menadione sodium bisulfite complex?

felineempathy

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So I feed Fancy Feast Classic recipes and certain Iams recipes in my rotation as cheaper alternatives to go easy on the budget.  I decided to double check the ingredients of the recipes I buy and everything checks out except one ingredient that caught my eye....menadione sodium bisulfite complex.  

I try searching that ingredient and I keep getting stuff from 2005-2007 and I saw a thread in here but that didn't offer any information.  So far I know it's a synthetic vitamin K with a possible toxicity and people angry about it in pet foods.  

Does anybody have any knowledge of this ingredient?  What do you think of it?
 

lisahe

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Thank you for posting that link, Otto! That's one of the better pieces I've seen about menadione.

I generally try not to feed menadione, which is relatively easy to do because it seems to be especially prevalent in fish-based foods... and I rarely feed fish.
 

2bcat

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I was going to say I have hardly run across this in foods recently, and I think while there has been some decreased use of it, the main reason for me is probably because I don't even pick up and read any cans that are predominantly fish.

This bit from Truth About Pet Food seems to bear that out; at least at the time of that writing (2012) the AAFCO *required* menadione in any cat food containing more than 25% fish on a dry matter basis.  Not sure if that requirement has been revised at all since then.  http://truthaboutpetfood.com/toxic-menadione/

So I haven't had to think about it with my recent purchases because I don't see it, but if I did I'd probably not buy that variety.
 

lokhismom

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Its in Fancy Feast and Sheba. (No fish in the flavors I feed)

I have both in my cats rotation to try and lower cost so its frustrating as heck to read this stuff. 
 
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felineempathy

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I was going to say I have hardly run across this in foods recently, and I think while there has been some decreased use of it, the main reason for me is probably because I don't even pick up and read any cans that are predominantly fish.

This bit from Truth About Pet Food seems to bear that out; at least at the time of that writing (2012) the AAFCO *required* menadione in any cat food containing more than 25% fish on a dry matter basis.  Not sure if that requirement has been revised at all since then.  http://truthaboutpetfood.com/toxic-menadione/

So I haven't had to think about it with my recent purchases because I don't see it, but if I did I'd probably not buy that variety.
Yes it's true that is required.  I actually just read an article a while ago (dated around Feb 2015)  with somebody asking Weruva why it's in their fish cat foods.  The President of the company responded and explained all of that.  http://www.radiopetlady.com/radio-pet-lady-blog/cat-nutrition/why-is-menadione-in-weruva/  

After reading that and the one above, I feel we're just debating about carrageenan again.  It's basically a debated ingredient with people saying it's harmful and people saying it isn't harmful.  
 
Its in Fancy Feast and Sheba. (No fish in the flavors I feed)

I have both in my cats rotation to try and lower cost so its frustrating as heck to read this stuff. 
Yes it is discouraging.  I chose Fancy Feast Classic and the specific Iams recipes to go easy on the budget but now this makes you second think it.
 

lisahe

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Based on one kind of food -- Tiki's Gourmet Carnivore fish foods -- it seems that menadione isn't absolutely required for fish foods: there's no menadione in their tilapia, for example. I don't follow the menadione story very closely because I don't feed much fish but it seems that either the rule has changed or Tiki has found a viable alternative. Perhaps in olive oil, which Truth About PetFood mentions as containing vitamin K?
 

2bcat

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I'm guessing that it's vitamin K supplement that is required and not specifically menadione.  The reason the latter is used is because it tolerates heat better.  Maybe Tiki is adding something after cooking or who knows.
 
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felineempathy

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Based on one kind of food -- Tiki's Gourmet Carnivore fish foods -- it seems that menadione isn't absolutely required for fish foods: there's no menadione in their tilapia, for example. I don't follow the menadione story very closely because I don't feed much fish but it seems that either the rule has changed or Tiki has found a viable alternative. Perhaps in olive oil, which Truth About PetFood mentions as containing vitamin K?
Well it's possible that tilapia has enough vitamin K on it's own.  Another more natural source of vitamin K is kelp as well which is one of the alternatives that some companies use instead of menadione.  Menadione is cheaper though, that's why companies use it.
 
I'm guessing that it's vitamin K supplement that is required and not specifically menadione.  The reason the latter is used is because it tolerates heat better.  Maybe Tiki is adding something after cooking or who knows.
I think the only form of vitamin K supplement that is required is menadione (K3) because K1 and K2 are deemed as unstable but I could be wrong.  Like I mentioned above though, there's other sources like kelp and oil.
 
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