Specific Food Suggestion Needed

I'm sorry but I most veterinarians get more than "two weeks of nutrition education". I also highly doubt that it's sponsored by any company. Universities just don't work that way. If anyone has proof that all nutrition courses in the US (worldwide?) are sponsored by a pet food company, I'd really like to see that.

I Googled vet school curriculum and it wasn't too hard to find nutrition courses in vet schools.

NC University - 

VMB 965 - Veterinary Nutritional Health – The role of nutrition in veterinary medicine. Development, diagnosis and prevention of nutritional problems in a variety of species will be discussed, frequently employing a comparative approach. 2 semester hours. 

I found a few others that have similar courses on nutrition. Obviously, these courses cover more than just feline nutrition, but a lot of the information is relevant to all species (an amino acid is an amino acid after all ). As I said before, there's a lot no one knows. I don't expect universities to teach vets things that are not evidence-based. 

So, vets are expected to know that cats are obligate carnivores and don't requite grain as part of their diet. They should know about common deficiencies and what they can cause. These are things that are known and backed up by scientific literature. Anything more complicated - such as nutrition for specific medical conditions - is probably left for nutritional experts (there are those out there).

As far as saying that grain is harmful or that feeding wet is superior to feeding dry food? I'm sorry for the blasphemy, but at this point, this is an educated guess at best. Nobody knows and there's no sufficient scientific evidence to back these claims, despite what some sites say. I really don't see why vets should propagate any information that isn't evidence-based. I'd actually be quite upset if my vet were to share guesses and half-truths as fact.

As for the food companies, like Dr. Cline says in her lecture, they want to generate sales by pleasing their customers. If customers want grain-free, they will adapt and sell grain-free products. Customers want canned or raw? They'll sell you whatever you want for the right price and the pet food industry is doing just that these days - adapting to the customers' wishes. IMO, their - very clear - commercial interests are really not the issue here. (And just to clarify, no pet food company sponsors TCS  ).

The cats I grew up with were all fed standard brands of canned food ( mostly whiskas and felix...trays of sheba and gourmet for a treat) and dry food (friskies and whiskas). The dry was free fed and the wet was mealtimes only. They lived healthy lives for the most part. They did all end up FIV positive (in the 80s and 90s - drug treatments weren't mentioned so I assume they weren't available) but that was due to FIV being rife in the local cat population...and possibly a *very* bad vet we used in an emergency. They had vet visits for war wounds, a car accident, an inhaled grass seed (!) and other things of that nature. Of the six, FIV claimed 3, skin cancer claimed our white old lady, one had a fatal stroke and one died in his sleep. Not bad for supermarket quality food! The next two were/are fed royal canin urinary s/o dry (and before that another 'suspect' dry food) alongside whiskas pouches, changing to sheba and gourmet pouches as they aged and got fussier. We had one instance of urinary crystals in one boy (5 years ago, and he's still going strong with no recurrence), and the other (who was born with a heart murmur) we lost last year to chf.

I have to say that I strongly believe in the modern wisdom of wet, grain free high meat content foods. My new girl will get nothing else (mostly nature's menu pouches - well..except for the odd treat of home cooked chicken or other meat). My dogs get grain free high meat dry and canned food too. Even my pony gets the most species and type appropriate diet I can find!

I'm wary of the barf diet after a bad experience with my dogs. I switched them over and they started off loose. I then gave them each a fresh from the butcher raw lamb bone. Shortly thereafter, they were both violently sick. I haven't dared try again, but I give them what I believe to be the next best thing. denice interestingly, when I researched the dog foods I did come across a lot of people who's dogs were unable to cope with high meat grain free too. Looks like it's not just cats!

Anyway, whilst I do agree with the modern thinking (and will never go back to the old ways if I can avoid it), it's clear that for decades, when we didn't know better, we all fed our animals the diets that are so dammed by so many today. They survived...even thrived...and lived long happy lives.

Today we have a choice. That doesn't mean that those who, for whatever reason (my old boy gets the old fashioned stuff because he flatly refuses to eat anything else unless its fresh cooked chicken or turkey...or tuna fish or smoked salmon - I know its bad, but he doesn't have them often) choose to buy the old style brands should be penalised.

*Rant over* just trying to bring a little balance here.

CatPack said:

I personally don't believe in marketed "diet" foods as they typically contain more carbs and less protein to get the caloric value down.

How much each cat needs will depend upon which food you select, the ideal weight of the cat and thatcat's activity level. In general, when trying to get a cat to loose weight, you feed 15 calories per pound of weight.

My kitties with sensitive stomachs do best on grain-free, high protein, low-carb foods. I use Nature's Variety Instinct turkey formula and Pride by Instinct's duck formula for dry.

You could try Petsmart's brand Simply Nourish "Source" line of dry food. The ingredients aren't bad at all, especially for the price.

I honestly do believe that feeding a canned only diet is the easiest way to get cats to lose weight (and has been the easiest way for me to control portions.)

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i just switched to Simply nourish 2 days ago. jack loves tje rabbit dry food grain free. what do u feel about them putting in animal digest now?? thinking of leaving him on their wet food but changing dry. purina is not an option to the complaints and almost killed my cat recently. it says animal digest can even be tumours. i am concerned. i sm not concerned the wet food from Thailand they produce good quality dry food w/animal digest concerns me

Since my cat got sick a few months ago, I began to do extensive research, only to realize the obvious, that what we eat affects our health, and theirs!  The vet pushed Hills WD, and Royal Canin high response.  I'd been trying to get my cat off dry food, since I'd become more knowledgeable about how pet food is made.  I really never knew that it contained euthanized and diseased dogs, cats, and other undefined animal tissue.  Then I watched a video on how it was made!  Most guardians have no idea about this.  Marketing makes it all sound yummy!

When I looked at the ingredients in the so-called "prescription food", I realized that this is a scam for pushing low quality ingredients at high prices.  Money is the bottom line for many vets. 

MODERATOR NOTE:

This thread has gotten way off track.

Below is sonnyvincent's original post asking for dry food suggestions. Can we get back to dry food suggestions please?

sonnyvincent said:

I saw my vet today and since I've read so many times always consult with the vet before any diet plan, I talked to her a little about what my overweight cats should eat. I thought I'd been doing better stopping the free feeding but I guess I still over feed them

She suggested for the 2 bigger cats, a diet food. OK so... one of the two cats has always needed a cat food for "sensitive stomachs". He has been on Purina One for Sensitive Stomachs for many years. I'm guessing he must've had problems as a kitten and they found that food that he could tolerate.

So, what could I feed them that is not ONLY a good "diet" food but ALSO ok on "sensitive stomachs"? They're 6 and 14 years old. I'll have to feed them separately from the younger cat because he's tiny as it is (or maybe seems so next to them).

She said 1/2 cup a day each and even a little less if I split a can of wet food between them. Sonny will hate me for this but I want to help him at least lose his belly weight. He's always been a bigger boy but now with the asthma, the extra weight can't be good for him. He's gained his belly since he stopped being active, but he was always a stockier cat and I think meant to be.

Any suggestions? She said grain free or not doesn't matter, and that she thinks a mix of dry and wet is the best way to go. I'd prefer something that is found at Petco or Petsmart, if it's not available at a regular grocery store. Again, can't pay extravagant prices but mid-range I'd say.

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Please feel free to start another thread about a vet's nutrition knowledge.

AbbysMom Well said!

Back to topic...sonnyvincent, I can't suggest brands as I'm in the UK and a lot of the brands are different here...even from the same manufacturers. What I can say is that my instinct would be to feed 100% wet. I have to cut my labrador's portions occasionally to stop problems before they start. By feeding wet only, you give a bigger meal that takes longer to eat. In any kind of diet that has to be a good thing.

On another note, have you thought of looking into the range of interactive or puzzle feeding bowls etc available. Again, anything that spins out the mealtimes will make for less cranky dieters!

Go with your instincts. You know your cats better than anyone. Happy feline dieting

I love the little puzzle balls.  At first my kitties wouldn't pay any attention to it, one of the people who works at the vets office showed me how to get the kitties interested in it.  She said to put a treat or piece of kibble half in and half out one of the holes.  It's kind of like some kitties have to be shown how it works.

Columbine said:

@AbbysMomWell said!

Back to topic...sonnyvincent, I can't suggest brands as I'm in the UK and a lot of the brands are different here...even from the same manufacturers. What I can say is that my instinct would be to feed 100% wet. I have to cut my labrador's portions occasionally to stop problems before they start. By feeding wet only, you give a bigger meal that takes longer to eat. In any kind of diet that has to be a good thing.

On another note, have you thought of looking into the range of interactive or puzzle feeding bowls etc available. Again, anything that spins out the mealtimes will make for less cranky dieters!

Go with your instincts. You know your cats better than anyone. Happy feline dieting

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Being in the UK and different brands I'd struggle to reccommend foods but agree that wet food fed at timed intervals tends to be more filling but you do need to select one that has a nice high protein level for this as it is the protein that fills the cat up and keeps it feeling full.  If you then use the puzzle feeding bowls or balls in between you encourage your cat to work for their food and use up some of their calories which is always going to be good.  Mostly these feeding systems work with dry food so you need to be careful to measure out how much of the dry food you give in this way each day and deduct it from the wet food allowance your cat has.

mservant A lot of the toys do work better with kibble, but if you search it is possible to find a few that can work with wet.

I didn't really receive much advice on specific dry food brands lol. I ended up making a choice and hopefully it will be a good one. I don't claim to understand all the fine details on why people push wet diets or dry diets or why vets recommend what they do - mine didn't recommend a brand, just a weight loss type which personally I am choosing against going with because I mostly look at my experiences and in my experience the "special" labeled brands never really make much of a difference.

As i said, in my experience, a friend who fed her cats wet only had all the cats (from different litters and genetics) lose their teeth or have really bad tooth problems. I'm not going to feed wet only. Throw science or whatever at me, I won't do it. You can try to tell me it doesn't cause tooth issues but...I've seen it. I'm perfectly fine with partial wet/partial dry. My mom's cats (again different litters and genetics) were fed dry exclusively all their lives, most of the time the cheapest crap available, and lived to be 18. So I can't even say I buy into the idea that you have to spend 5X the money on dry food to have a healthy cat. Based on my experiences and what I've seen.

The difference is, with my cat, is that he's overweight and he has asthma. I've never fed the lowest quality but haven't bought my cat food from anywhere outside a grocery store until now (except for wet which I have gone to PetSmart to experiment with). I'm understanding that in this case, it's different from what I've experienced so I'm ok with going outside of what I've seen to try something to help my cat's chances of living longer.  My vet didn't send me home with packets and at this office they don't have a shelf area where they sell cat food. She suggested a mix of wet and dry and that seems completely reasonable to me. I'm not interested in agendas, conspiracy theories, in depth studies, I just was hoping someone would help me find a higher quality dry food that is less likely to contribute to my cat's weight problem. As I know the expensive ones might not be any better than the cheap ones.

So thanks I guess I got Blue Wilderness for Indoor cats. We'll see if it was a waste of money or not.

That is a good dry food. You may want to find a food that has L Carnitine to promote a healthy metabolism and can help with weight. I know Pro Plan has a wet food. I don't know about a dry. Of course the Pro Plan isn't grain free and has by products too, but it is the only wet she will eat. I'm not giving it to her to lose weight either. The higher protein dry food that is non grain will mean smaller servings and you will save there with the cost.