Diet for 15 year old cat w/ Congestive Heart Failure, on Vetmedin

mark87

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Hi guys.

I posted a few days ago in the general health forum on here, and was really grateful for the responses I got-- thought I would turn to you guys again for another question in the caring for my cat who has CHF, this time pertaining to a proper diet for her condition.

So far, she is on:

Clavamox (antibiotic)

Furosemide (to reduce fluid retention in lungs)

Enalapril (to dilate blood vessels)

Vetmedin (to strengthen heart contraction)

I have read plenty of sources that Bella needs to be on a low sodium diet. She prefers wet canned food. I have been going a little crazy trying to find out what products offer low sodium. I did find that there are a few Science Diet flavors with low sodium, however they are fortified with calcium.  I am afraid to try it, seeing as how Vetmedin function by already providing a large dose of calcium.  I'm not sure if this will cause some sort of effects.

I called Purina to ask about the Friskies canned cat food that I feed them (savory shreds and prime filets), and I was completely surprised to hear that customer service rep tell me that all of the Friskies that I feed our cats already is low in sodium.  

Questions:  A) So, do you guys think that the Friskies brand that I currently feed her with the low sodium would be enough? Or are there other things that I should be considering in her diet that the Friskies likely doesn't contain?; and B) do you think there is any reason to be concerned with the extra calcium in Science Diet, if she is on Vetmedin? 

If  She seems to be doing great now that she is out of the hospital and breathing on her own, and I want to try to extend her quality of life as much as possible.

Thanks,

Mark 
 
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mschauer

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Did the customer rep tell you what the sodium content is of the foods you feed? "Low" after all is subjective. Low for a healthy cat is quite different than low for a CHF cat.

The following gives some idea of the sodium content you might want to target:

http://www.vermontveterinarycardiology.com/index.php/for-clients/feeding-the-cardiac-patient

Did your vet give you any guidelines to follow with regards to how much sodium is best for her?

As for the calcium, all foods that are labelled as "complete and balanced" will have added calcium. They have to in order to be nutritionally balanced.
 
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mark87

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Oh, sorry I should have mentioned that.  He said that all 4 of the ones I am currently feeding her fall below .30 mg.  From what I've read online, anything from .20-.30 seems to be the recommended range to keep a cat in the has a sodium restriction for cardiac purposes such as CHF.
 
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mark87

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And to answer the second question, he didn't initially offer any advice for diet.  When I followed up with him, he said that prescription diets were an option, but that many senior diets would work just as well. He never gave me a sodium range, however.

Thank you for the link.
 

mschauer

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Oh, sorry I should have mentioned that.  He said that all 4 of the ones I am currently feeding her fall below .30 mg.  From what I've read online, anything from .20-.30 seems to be the recommended range to keep a cat in the has a sodium restriction for cardiac purposes such as CHF.
.3 mg per what???
 

Columbine

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If its any help I had a cat with chf. He was too far gone for vetmedin to be of any use. Nothing was ever said about dietary changes being necessary. My greyhound is in the early stages of chf. The only advice my vet gave me was to feed him what he wants to eat! Chf and vetmedin both cause loss of appetite. My vet said he'd rather see an animal eating what they were happy with than watch them waste away in front of a bowl of nutritionally perfect food that they don't fancy!

Chf is nasty. Go one day at a time. Don't get too hung up on perfect diets etc. Keep routine as normal as possible. Try not to let on you're worried even if you are. Enjoy the good days - I wish you lots of them. :vibes:
 
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mark87

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mschauer-- Sorry, what I meant to say was that it was .30% content.  For instance, if you look at this page of wet canned foods, it shows the sodium as a percentage: http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canned.htm

 I'm assuming this represents the percentage of daily suggested intake.

Columbine-- While she has only been on the vetmedin for about 4 days, I can honestly say that she seems to be hungry all the time.  In fact, I've been giving her a little extra food here and there because she begs.  Not sure how this will be in the long run.  
 

mschauer

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mschauer-- Sorry, what I meant to say was that it was .30% content.  For instance, if you look at this page of wet canned foods, it shows the sodium as a percentage: http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canned.htm

 I'm assuming this represents the percentage of daily suggested intake.
I think the .3 % must be the amount of sodium in the food on a dry matter basis. That would make sense given the .2 - .3 range you've found elsewhere and which is in the link I gave you.
Questions:  A) So, do you guys think that the Friskies brand that I currently feed her with the low sodium would be enough? Or are there other things that I should be considering in her diet that the Friskies likely doesn't contain?; and B) do you think there is any reason to be concerned with the extra calcium in Science Diet, if she is on Vetmedin? 
Friskies is a complete and balanced food so there is no reason you might need to feed something else in addition to it nutrition wise if that is what you are asking.

Did you see my response to the calcium question in my first post? 
 

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First off I am sorry you are dealing with this. :hugs:

My mother's cat went into congestive heart failure due to HCM. She took some of the same meds as your cat, but not Vetmedin. My mother continued to feed Friskies to her cat until she got to the point that Columbine's cat did - just feed them what they will eat. :nod:
 

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Mark87, it's good to hear that your cat still has a good appetite :) Long may it last! All animals will respond differently to meds, just as people do. I really don't think there's any need to get hung up on diet though...except maybe avoid any human food treats that are on the salty side.

Cali was fed a mix of royal canin urinary s/o dry food (his brother had urinary crystals and it was too complicated to use 2 different dry foods) and sheba fine flakes in gravy pouches. As his interest in food waned, he had freshly cooked chicken breast ( oven baked in water..he loved the juice it made) or roast turkey breast meat with no seasoning. We were never once told to change his diet. I should add that we knew about his chf long before treating it - he was almost impossible to give meds to until he got bad and the vet came to the conclusion that the stress of taking the meds outweighed any good they might do! Even at that point diet wasn't mentioned, and I'm fairly up on that sort of thing. I feed really high quality food to my new cat, but Cal was primarily my mother's (I'm a 32 yr old living at home...*not*a kid lol) and she gave him supermarket food and he was too old and stubborn to change his ways!

I really hope your cat continues to do well. :vibes:
 
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mschauer

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Mark87, it's good to hear that your cat still has a good appetite
Long may it last! All animals will respond differently to meds, just as people do. I really don't think there's any need to get hung up on diet though...except maybe avoid any human food treats that are on the salty side.
You might be interested in this from the article I linked to above interesting:
 Part of the treatment of CHF involves restriction of sodium intake in the diet and it is of the utmost important that owners of pets with cardiac disease observed this restriction!  Failure to do so can result in fluid accumulation in the lungs, difficulty breathing (human patients describe a sensation of drowning), a trip to the emergency room, or even death!
I've never had to deal with CHF myself. I'm sure that if there is a problem getting a CHF cat to eat that eating anything, regardless of sodium content, is better than not eating at all. But there does  seem to be a benefit to a low sodium diet.
 
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Columbine

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mschauer mschauer I take that on board. However, I think you should take on board what's already been mentioned regarding sodium levels in cat food. It seems to be the case that cat food in general falls within the low sodium category. Certainly, if mainstream brands like Frisked fit that description it is very probable that more expensive brands do as well. Sure, some cat treats and some human delicacies won't fit the bill, but the complete foods do seem to.

As you say, you have never had to deal with this awful disease. I think you need to be careful how you present things in this context. I'm sure you don't intend to upset people, but you are running the risk of making someone who has just lost an animal to this disease feel guilty about the way they handled things. End stage chf is traumatic for all concerned, and there are enough 'what ifs' and 'if onlys' surrounding the issue without increasing them.

Additionally, the nature of the disease means that all patient will end up on diuretics which are unavoidable but will control fluid build up in the lungs anyway.

I'm not denying the need for reduced sodium, but it's very easy to make carers doubt themselves. I know my dog has a low sodium diet most of the time anyway, but I'd rather see him happy than get too hung up on what he eats (as I write this, he's had several days of barely eating followed by 24 hrs of no food at all. He is just beginning to eat again, but has liquid diarrhoea and very little interest in food). I guess I'm saying that this is a very emotive subject and that has to be taken into account.

Chf is incurable. If you are *very* lucky it's possible to halt its progress for a time.
 
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Columbine

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mschauer mschauer Looking back, I think it was the tone of the quote from the article (I've never been a fan of excerpts out of context). It just came across as very judgemental. It had me in tears. Cali's death was very traumatic. He was my mother's cat but I had the job of feeding and medicating him. I lost count of the number of hours I spent hand feeding him because left to himself he wouldn't eat at all. He was on liquid meds which I had to syringe down his throat several times a day and he ended up with an aerokat and asthma meds to aid his breathing. He ended up in major respiratory distress in my arms as I was administering his meds. He died on he way to the vet (it was to pts anyway...it was time). For the longest time I felt as though I'd killed him..He'd not wanted his meds and I was gently insisting he had them.

I fully trusted my vets advice then, and I still do now. I've looked more closely at the food lists in the article. Virtually none of them are available here (uk)..only the prescription ones. They were never even suggested to us. Maybe pet food rules/standards are different here than in the US.

I'm sorry for overreacting.
 

AbbysMom

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Columbine Columbine :hugs: :hugs: I'm sorry for what you went through. We all have our triggers. :nod: I have some from losing a cat and from losing my father. It's tough to read "tone" on the internet at times. I'm sure mschauer was only providing the information to help. You'll find that for the most part our members are really here to provide the best information for the cats and are really a supportive group. :nod:
 

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I know mschauer posted the information to help. I should have calmed down before posting! I've found this site and its members invaluable since I joined.

So...sorry again mschauer, and sorry to Mark87 for hijacking the thread somewhat.
 

mschauer

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I know mschauer posted the information to help. I should have calmed down before posting! I've found this site and its members invaluable since I joined.

So...sorry again mschauer, and sorry to Mark87 for hijacking the thread somewhat.
No worries.  I'm so sorry for all you went through with Cali. 


I know all too well the awful feeling of losing a beloved pet and thinking that maybe there was something more I could have done. I think it is an inevitable consequence of truly caring. I have no doubt that you did everything you could for Cali. 
 
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mark87

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@mschauer  sorry for the delayed response.  Was stressed out a bit because Bella has been having recurring diarrhea, so the Dr. switched her to a new antibiotic and now she isn't wanting to even touch any food that I put the new antibiotic in.  She has no problem eating the food with the other medications mixed in, though, so that is at least a good thing.

She loves the Friskies food that I feed her.  I think I'm going to go the route of just letting her eat what she enjoys.  Like you guys said, it's best that she at least eat.

@Columbine- Thanks for sharing your experiences. I've never had to go through this before, so I do have a sense of dread or impending 'doom' lingering.  She is very much her old self at the moment, I am just afraid of when she will have a bad day.  

We still have not introduced her to my other two cats in the house, so I'm afraid of that sending her into another 'episode'. 
 
 
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Columbine

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Live in the moment. Don't focus on the future...it won't help you or her. Go extra slow with intros and have Feliway everywhere. Do one cat at a time, and start with the calmer one. Have favourite foods ready for the feeding intros so they associate each other with jackpot rewards. Do tons of scent (and site if possible ) swapping first. Associate even the scent with treats. Have one person per cat when you start to bring them together. Stay calm. Keep the faith. Envisage it going brilliantly and project that energy.

Good luck with it all. Keep us posted :vibes:
 
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mark87

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Thanks, I may try the feliway, you're the second person to suggest that for introductions.

I'm trying my best to be positive.  My second brother passed away in January, and now I have my childhood pet facing this horrible condition... so it's just been a lot of stress for me at once.  It's been tough for me because she really is special. My family has had her since I was 13 years old (I'm now 28), when we found her in my parents back yard with a litter of kittens in the side of a rusted out barrel.  Our family's dogs ended up killing the kittens.  My parents were always more of dog people, so they never let her inside.  I remember winters when they would keep her outside in the freezing cold.  They eventually started moving her in for the winters in recent years, but only in isolation for days on end sometimes in a heated garage.

Two weeks ago, I brought her to my apartment 30 miles away thinking it would be the best thing for her, to provide a house where she can get lots of attention in her old age.  After I brought her here is when she had the episode (shortly after trying to introduce her to the cats).  Even through it all though she has been so loving.  It is heart breaking because I see how happy she is living here with me, and she should have had this attention her whole life. She absolutely adores people. And to me, it's remarkable that she survived after having lived outside for 15 years, and only going to the vet once in her life.  She's definitely got a lot of fight in her.

Sorry, getting a bit sappy.  She's just had a tough life so I hate to see something like this happen to her.  I'm going to try to make what time she has left wonderful.
 

 
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