Ruby's mum is a Tortoiseshell so what was her dad ?

Meet Ruby my new little ball of fluff.

Wasn't intending on getting another cat , but Ruby was looking for a new home and I fell in love with her , she is black and white and long haired like my late Merlin.

Memories of him just came flooding back when I saw her , she's like he was as a kitten very confident.

Ruby's mum is a longhaired Tortoiseshell and her sister is very chocolate colour but I could see red and white in her coat.

So what colour was Ruby's dad and was he long haired too ?

Both Tallulah and Tippi seem ok with her so far , I can't believe I am now living in a flat with three females



This is Ruby's mum and sister

They are all just absolutely beautiful! I hope someone answers your questions, I'm curious too! I've got a beautiful longhaired tortoiseshell that came from an orange mom, also long haired, she has the most beautiful ruff, it looks like a mane!

The mother was a tortie, looking at your kitten, the father was a black with white cat. It is possible he was a chocolate with white cat as you mentioned about the chocolate colored sister, but as I'm not familiar with the chocolate gene, I will just put it as black. It's all the same kind, just that chocolate is more of a reduced pigment density black.

Next to the black and white, he probably was a non-tabby, but there's a slight chance he was tabby but carried the non-tabby gene, which explains why the kittens are non-tabby.

For the long haired gene, I would wait a little longer to see how the kittens and their fur grow. Kitten fur can be rather spiky, and even though your kittens look to be medium-haired now, like mom, it can change in the future. If they remain their longer fur, the dad was either another longer haired cat, or was a short haired cat but a carrier of the longer haired gene.

You have lovely kittens, congratulations! I hope you'll enjoy them lots!

Awww, isn't she cute!

The daddy was a dark cat, probably had a lot of white since mama cat doesn't. So Ruby got the dark gene from mama and dark gene from daddy. Her sister (if she is tortoiseshell; I can't really tell from the pic) got the red gene from mama and the dark gene from daddy. If the sister is really chocolate, that's a whole different thing that I don't know much about :tongue2:. But I think she's just black or dark tortoiseshell and her kitten fluff just makes it look brown.

Ruby's sister looks very chocolate and I can see chocolate in Ruby especially on her back .

Ruby is more fluffy than her sister and I am almost certain she will be long to medium haired .

This is another picture of Ruby showing the chocolate on her back and another picture of her sister

Ruby is really puzzling me , I noticed when I got her a couple of weeks ago she as a flat face , now she is 12 week old its even more obvious.

She looks like a traditional doll faced Persian , from my research on the internet .

How can this flat face happen in a domestic long hair ?

Ruby's mother is a medium long haired Tortoiseshell , not sure about dad.

What do the experts think of my flat faced Ruby ?

Do you think she as Persian ancestry ?

Merlin2000 said:

 
Ruby is really puzzling me , I noticed when I got her a couple of weeks ago she as a flat face , now she is 12 week old its even more obvious.

She looks like a traditional doll faced Persian , from my research on the internet .

How can this flat face happen in a domestic long hair ?

Ruby's mother is a medium long haired Tortoiseshell , not sure about dad.

What do the experts think of my flat faced Ruby ?

Do you think she as Persian ancestry ?

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Why, that is quite probable.  And if the ancestry is old enough, it will be doll face, as persians were 50 years ago.

Although doll faced persians are produced into this, day,  especielly by some BYB breeders, but there may also be serious breeders.

Compare with the pointed cats "siamese mixes" popping up now and then - they have quite often the look alikes of old type siamese.

StefanZ said:

 
Why, that is quite probable.  And if the ancestry is old enough, it will be doll face, as persians were 50 years ago.

Although doll faced persians are produced into this, day,  especielly by some BYB breeders, but there may also be serious breeders.

Compare with the pointed cats "siamese mixes" popping up now and then - they have quite often the look alikes of old type siamese.

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I have read on TCA about the history of the traditional doll faced Persian , and Ruby does look a lot like the early Persian cats they have pictures of.

So this doll face gene is very old from what I have read ?

Persian cats with these features were been shown in Victorian times in England around 1890.

So it is more than probable that Ruby as very old ancestry dating back to these early Persian cats.

Next questions is it Ruby's mum who carries the doll faced gene or her unknown dad ?

Also the long haired gene is that from her Persian ancestry ?

His her flat face common in domestic long haired cats ?

Can I call Ruby a traditional doll faced Persian look alike ?

Merlin2000 said:

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She does resemble a doll face to me (she is quite beautiful IMO). My cats have been referred to as doll faced persians (that came from a BYB I believe) and there is a resemblance to your Ruby


My Sophie                                                                                                                                                         Her sister Lilith


Sophie (better pic of her face)

The vet told me that they have "good noses" whatever that means.

Sophie and Lilith are beautiful , they both look very Persian.

I had not heard the term BYB before so I had to look it up it stands for back yard breeder , so that's something new I have learned today.

Ruby's mum went missing for a week so she could have mated with any Tom cat really.

I do know there is a lady who breeds Persian cats locally , so there is a possibility that Ruby's mum might have got pregnant from these cats.

But I think it's more likely it's just an old Persian gene that's been passed on for generations in the domestic cat gene pool.

Cat genetics are so interesting.

Will Ruby have any breathing issues having a flat face , she seems very healthy ?

Here is Tippi giving her a wash this morning

I'm not really seeing any obvious flat face, neither do I see a resemblance to a Persian looking at her eyes, nose and mouth shape. Her profile is actually pretty simular to one of my cats and she's no where near a Persian ^^

Ruby looks a lot like one of the feral kittens I took in and eventually re-homed a few years ago.


He had a tabby and white sister and a black and white sister. All three kittens went to good homes.

Their mother was a brown tabby and their father was a black and white tom. Here's a picture of dad.


The male kitten was the only long haired one. I'm not sure where they get the long haired gene from, but occasionally long haired kittens would be born in the colony. Button and Hiro are from the same colony, they are two years old now and were two of the last kittens born before I got all the cats TNR'd.


I often wonder if the long haired gene comes from someone having a Persian cat that got out, or if the long hair just occurs at random in feral cat populations. It would make sense for there to be a lot of long haired cats around here as the winters are so cold, but who knows?

Wow he is like Ruby , Norachan same little fluffy doll face.

Your boys Button and Hiro are beautiful cats they remind me of my late Merlin same big build , I really miss my big boy.

Merlin2000 said:

 
It does seem random how it pops up , I have seen litters of kittens were only one is long haired and the rest are short haired.

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Yes, that is typical for recessive genes. Some of the cats are carriers for the longhair, but as long as the gene is alone, it doesnt show itself, the cat individual is shorthaired, as shorthair gene domeinates longhair. But when two such genes meets, whoa, we do get our typical result, one longhaired in a litter of 4, where the others 3 are shorthaired precisely as parents.

Similiar pattern we do see with the point gene "siamese mix".  It can happen among moggies, it can happen among purebreds.  For example among Russian Blue, where they did used some blue pointed siameses 60 years ago.   And this gene does pop up now and then to this day - although they actively tried not to breed on known bearers of the point gene...

These occasional points among Russian blue looks typically as a siamese old type.   These occasional popping up points among moggies may have different looks, but here too not seldom a siamese old type.    Hinting perhaps the gene comes from far aback.

So it will of course happen more often when there is no active  non-breeding on the carriers.   Both with pointed, and with long fur.   As the hereiditary pattern is similiar.

But apparently, in both cases the big majority population is still shorthaired, respective not pointed.

ps.  I presume the longhair can also be occasional spontan mutation popping up.   And then it is either farily succesfull, and can be inherited for the children, or ist not so successful, and isnt not inherited.  The individual being perhaps sterile because of this mutation.

But the most common is surely the gene come into the population by some cat from the outside. In this Japan example perhaps a persian or turkish angora perhaps from some rich owner.  Or a maine coon following a ship from USA...

Once succesfully mated, the gene will flow down along the river of life forever.   Practical immortality thus achieved, more safe and sure than pyramides.