Ash Content re: FLUTD kitties

I've read a lot of info that says the ash content per the guaranteed analysis shouldn't exceed 3% for cats with FLUTD.  I've also read that's not necessarily the case, and that water is the real key to managing this condition, as well as stress management.  Now I'm hopelessly confused. :-)

I'm trying to transition Buddy over to some non-fish flavored (canned) food, with some modest success here and there.  But since his sense of smell has been significantly compromised from chronic upper respiratory infections, finding a mostly pate-style food (which he prefers) that will tempt his appetite can be a bit of a challenge.  Last night he absolutely devoured a can of Nutro Natural Choice, much to my delight.  Then I noticed that the ash content was 3.5%. :/

Is that a problem?  Or is water intake/stress management the real issue I need to address instead of worrying about the ash content?  Or both? :-)

For what it's worth, he has five different types of water bowls scattered all over the place, one 'floater' bowl, and a shiny new fountain that I bought him last week.  I also bought a Feliway diffuser and wipes, and I *think* they're starting to help him feel a little less stressed out when he sees a bird or a squirrel in the backyard, and can't get outside to do anything about it.  And I'm trying to decide whether or not to buy some Cosequin for him.  The vet thinks nutritional supplements are mostly just marketing hype and a waste of money, but doesn't have any objections if I want to waste my money. ;-)

I don't know that there's an "absolute" cut-off point for ash in a cat food as re: FLUTD. The issue is that ash is what is left over after minerals are incinerated - so the amount of ash in a cat food is indicative of the mineral load in it. There aren't any maximums for calcium or phos - or many of the minerals, actually. So from a pet food company formulating perspective, what matters is keeping the balance of calcium and phosphorus. So yes - overall, you want a low ash content in a kitty with crystals, because the excess minerals can be a problem and contribute to crystal formation.

If a higher ash content food is used in rotation, I'm sure that's not a problem. If it is used exclusively, then you'd want to do things like add water TO the food to help keep kitty flushed. I would also want to ensure the food is low carb, because carbs raise the pH, and that is the environment where struvite crystals form. I think controlling the pH and keeping kitty flushed are FAR more important than the overall mineral content. That said, for sensitive cats, it is another contributing factor.

Some have found the choindroitin/glucosamine help: others find it doesn't. This is an individual thing. There was research that indicated it helped, but it's older, and it was found to be a not well designed study. More recent research indicates that there is no difference. But that doesn't mean YOUR kitty won't benefit, because some do.

What does help is corn silk tea. This should not be used in kidney cats as it is a diuretic, and they have trouble staying hydrated as it is with their inability to concentrate urine properly. But in healthy cats, this has proven benefit. It not only helps keep kitty flushed, it binds to the excess minerals in the kidneys and bladder and helps kitty excrete them. Being a mucilaginous herb, it also soothes the bladder wall.

During a flare, I give one tablespoon four times a day for 3 or 4 days. For maintenance (which is all we've needed for quite some time), I give one tablespoon every 2 or 3 days. I do add extra water to the meals fed. (Well, I actually give sub-q fluids - just 50ML - once or twice a week as well).

Here is information on corn silk tea, the benefits and safety:

"Use of Aqueous Extract of Corn Silk in the Treatment of Urinary Tract Infection," (Sahib et al 2012) http://www.scopemed.org/?mno=19924

"Corn Silk (Stigma Maydis) in Healthcare: A Phytochemical and Pharmacological Review," (Hasanudin et al. 2012) http://www.mdpi.com/1420-3049/17/8/9697/pdf

Most cats like it and eat it just added to food: it tastes as you'd expect - like grass. :lol3:

I steep organic corn silk tea ( ) in a cup of boiled water for 20 minutes, and store it in the fridge.

LDG said:

I would also want to ensure the food is low carb, because carbs raise the pH, and that is the environment where struvite crystals form. I think controlling the pH and keeping kitty flushed are FAR more important than the overall mineral content.

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Thank you so, SO much for all of the information!  I sincerely appreciate it.  There seems to be so much I still need to learn re: this subject, and you've been a huge help! 

Dumb question...

What's an acceptable range re: carb content?  I think I read somewhere that 10% or lower was ideal.  But due to Buddy's poor sense of smell and some other issues, I may need to go with something a little bit higher so I can balance it out with some other considerations.  So far there hasn't actually been any crystals or blood detected in his urine, but I figure I might was well err on the side of caution. ;-)

Oh that's good if his body isn't making crystals!

Yes, keeping it to 10% or less is ideal, but that can be difficult. I'll post a link to a carb calculator for you when I'm on my laptop. Just be mindful of it, really. If you can include lower carb foods in his rotation, that's best. Try not to go over 20%. Dr. Pierson has a food list with pretty accurate carb contents of wet food as she didn't use the guaranteed analysis, she contacted the companies for the actual nutritional analysis. Again, unless someone else posts it, that will have to wait until I'm back on the laptop, too.

My boy had crystals when he was less than a year old. We've just kept to low-carb canned food, not fish flavored, and haven't had a problem since then - I don't know how your cat's severity compares, so please read my experience with that caveat.  I have never looked at ash content (just phosphorus), but it seems others are way more knowledgeable about this than I am. I'd be much more worried about water content, personally, but again, my cat is one where water content alone solved the issue.

Is there something stinky you could put on top of food you want him to eat to make it more appealing? Like chicken liver or maybe some bonito flakes? (I know they are fish but if it's a nominal amount it might not be problematic.)  I am assuming you know about this chart in your quest for acceptable cat food: http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf I agree that if you can keep it to less than 15 or 20% you should be fine. We use Authority (Petsmart brand) and my cats go nuts for it - along with a couple other brands they don't like quite as much. Authority is actually pretty good quality. It is kinda stinky to my nose.

Sounds like you're doing a great job with the water dishes!   You can also make homemade chicken broth (no spices) to make the water more yummy. Hope this helps.

Yes, that's the food list I was going to post, perfect!

And though this is based off the guaranteed analysis (all we have to work with!), it helps for items Dr. Pierson doesn't have in her list. It's an excel file that downloads: http://catcentric.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/DMB-Calculator-Excel-97-2003.xls

Try the TANYAS website for CRF/CKD kitties. I know she also lists foods, although they are more about the phosphorus levels, but you might see something helpful. Also, I have been using the Chewy's (pet food online orders) to look at the different brands, because they have ingredient listing available. I felt guilty using them, so I finally ordered, and the order was here in like 2 days! Plus no sales tax, except for 3 states.( I'm in California, no tax!)

LDG said:

Oh that's good if his body isn't making crystals!

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Thank goodness for something going right!  Bless his heart, with his FIV, chronic URIs, allergies, and everything else, he can use all the breaks he can get. :-)

And thanks oodles for the additional info re: the carb content and the link for the calculator spreadsheet thingy.  Dr. Pierson's cat food chart is absolutely amazing, and I appreciate all of the hard work that she put into it.  Unfortunately, since one of the foods I had been feeding Buddy wasn't on her list, I tried using the formulas she provided re: how to calculate protein/fat/carb percentages based on the guaranteed analysis.  My eyes kinda glazed over a few times, so I'm still not sure I did it correctly.  But thanks to you, now this process will be a heck of a lot easier!

gussy14 said:

 
My boy had crystals when he was less than a year old. We've just kept to low-carb canned food, not fish flavored, and haven't had a problem since then - I don't know how your cat's severity compares, so please read my experience with that caveat.

 I have never looked at ash content (just phosphorus), but it seems others are way more knowledgeable about this than I am. I'd be much more worried about water content, personally, but again, my cat is one where water content alone solved the issue.

Is there something stinky you could put on top of food you want him to eat to make it more appealing? Like chicken liver or maybe some bonito flakes? (I know they are fish but if it's a nominal amount it might not be problematic.)  I am assuming you know about this chart in your quest for acceptable cat food: http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf I agree that if you can keep it to less than 15 or 20% you should be fine. We use Authority (Petsmart brand) and my cats go nuts for it - along with a couple other brands they don't like quite as much. Authority is actually pretty good quality. It is kinda stinky to my nose.

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Eek!  Sorry to hear that your kitty developed crystals at such a young age.  Just curious, what other brands have you tried besides Authority?

I'm afraid I haven't had much luck putting something stinky on his food to tempt his appetite, despite all of the wonderful suggestions I had in response to a recent thread.  But I have been able to get him to eat a couple of duck flavored brands without having to doctor it up, and he seemed to love the taste of Rockstar's Rabbit.  He's just couldn't seem to get the hang of something that wasn't pate.  Maybe I could try throwing it in the blender? :/

And you assume correctly, I've become very familiar with Dr. Pierson's website.    I'm just still trying to wrap my warped little noggin around all of that info!  Every time I read it, something I didn't notice before suddenly jumps out at me, and I feel more overwhelmed than I did before.  Hee!

Anne with Cats said:

 
Try the TANYAS website for CRF/CKD kitties. I know she also lists foods, although they are more about the phosphorus levels, but you might see something helpful. Also, I have been using the Chewy's (pet food online orders) to look at the different brands, because they have ingredient listing available. I felt guilty using them, so I finally ordered, and the order was here in like 2 days! Plus no sales tax, except for 3 states.( I'm in California, no tax!)

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Oooh, thanks!  I didn't even think to check Tanya's site, and there's so much helpful info there.

Glad to hear you had a good experience with Chewy's.  I need to buy a few items for my guys, and thought I'd give them a try instead of ordering from Amazon.com like I usually do. :-)

You are welcome! I am a big time Amazon user - that Prime is the best!  Chewy;s has free shipping with I think $50.

Yep. Love Chewy's!!

Sure! We use Triumph (the turkey and beef flavors), Canidae's cat food called Felidae (I think it only comes in chicken and rice), and PetGuard Venison and Rice. We use any non-fish, non-weight management flavor of Authority. And of course, we eliminated the dry food entirely. (they do still get some Temptations treats, I think they would riot if I got rid of those.)

They're all pretty budget-friendly but also decent quality, our goal is $1 per cat per day (we have 2). When we first started doing this, I also mixed water in with the food to make it a little soupier.

Our kitty let us know he was having issues by peeing all over the place, but especially on our comforter. Believe me, that was fun.   But he hasn't had any issues since, and it's been over 2 years now!

Anne with Cats said:

 
You are welcome! I am a big time Amazon user - that Prime is the best!  Chewy;s has free shipping with I think $50.

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Cool!  And looks like they only charge a flat rate of $4.95 for orders under $49.  That's helpful. :-)

I remember when I first started ordering wheat grass seed from Amazon for my other cat, and a 5 lb. bag cost $8, and shipping was $8.  Then one day when I went to reorder some, they started charging about $16 for the seeds, but with 'free' shipping  

LDG said:

Yep. Love Chewy's!!

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Woo hoo!  Another satisfied customer.  Now I feel even better about giving them a try. :-)

gussy14 said:

 
Sure! We use Triumph (the turkey and beef flavors), Canidae's cat food called Felidae (I think it only comes in chicken and rice), and PetGuard Venison and Rice. We use any non-fish, non-weight management flavor of Authority. And of course, we eliminated the dry food entirely. (they do still get some Temptations treats, I think they would riot if I got rid of those.)

They're all pretty budget-friendly but also decent quality, our goal is $1 per cat per day (we have 2). When we first started doing this, I also mixed water in with the food to make it a little soupier.

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Thanks much!  We'll give those brands a try.

And I appreciate budget-friendly options!  Sometimes it can get a little expensive to keep my two cats in different parts of the house, and I can use all the help I can get. :-)