sexing and aging kittens

I am more and more convinced that Ginger is a boy - the opening looked more slit-like to me, but it seems to be moving lower. I'll take another pic within the next couple of days. This is opposite of our usual litters - they are usually all girls and one boy. They are still growing like CRAZY - yesterday they all gained between 14 and 25 grams. No wonder mama cat is eating me out of house and home.    And this morning, the ginger cat had one eye opened!

Thanks everyone for all the help, I appreciate it. I never knew that sexing kittens was so tricky!

gussy14 said:

 
I am more and more convinced that Ginger is a boy - the opening looked more slit-like to me, but it seems to be moving lower. I'll take another pic within the next couple of days. This is opposite of our usual litters - they are usually all girls and one boy. They are still growing like CRAZY - yesterday they all gained between 14 and 25 grams. No wonder mama cat is eating me out of house and home. 

  And this morning, the ginger cat had one eye opened!

Thanks everyone for all the help, I appreciate it. I never knew that sexing kittens was so tricky!

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It's true, there are some that can fool us, but waiting a short time usually helps show much clearer, just in a few days sometimes like this one.

I had an adorable kitten once who I sexed as a boy initially, he was so tiny and slower to grow, that I had Dustin for a good 3 months before he was able to be neutered.

When he finally went, he came back as a girl, I could hardly believe it! Yet remembering, I had only looked once at about 4-5 weeks old, so things can and do change, I just didn't think I needed to recheck!  

Normally, as we all see in the others, it's pretty clear who is who, but occasionally, as the ginger kitten here is, can be a bit tricky

Right in between!

@catwoman707  Haha! Reminds me of the time I took in an adult foster. The previous owner knew her to be female. When I took her in to get spayed, she was an already neutered male. Whoops.   

So my ginger baby has not had great weight gain the past 2 days (6g total  ) and the vet recommended supplementary feedings. I have the KMR and the bottle, but this cat really dislikes the bottle. How can I convince him how yummy it is?? Any ideas?

No, that's not nearly enough gain.

As long as they have mom, they will hate the bottle, and won't change either.

This means supplementing via syringe. Slow process but a few times a day should make the difference.

Just watch his weight and go from that to determine how much/often to give KMR.

Thanks @catwoman707  Reminds me of my human baby - not a fan of the bottle, much prefers mom. I guess all mammals share some things in common! 

How much should I be able to get in him at a time? I used the syringe and about 2.5 ml was used, although I think half of it ended up on him rather than in him. He started squealing really loudly and it was upsetting mama, so I stopped at that point. I'll plan on trying again a couple more times today. I was just slow today because I needed to get out to get the syringe.

Edited to add: Kittens are about a week old (Ginger is a pirate with one eye opened ) and he is 188g. Probably affects how much he should be eating!

He should be getting a good 50 mls per day, but it's impossible to base what you supplement him with by this since he is nursing.

I'd start with 3 mls a few times a day and watch how he gains from that. The key is to get him gaining the minimum amt per day, so it can be adjusted up if it's not enough.

Syringing is a slow process, otherwise they wear more and it's hard to tell how much gets in, and I suggest because of his squealing you take him away from mom's earshot and maybe have a radio on even, as this will upset her.

It mighthelp to assist him to get more nursing time. Or at least try it, if he hates the bottle/formula that much. Just make an effort to get him to nurse more---wake him up to nurse when all the other babies are sleeping, help him get the forward nipples (I hear they have more/better milk than the ones farther back), etc. Also try to give him the bottle/syringe when he's cuddling with his mother, so maybe he thinks he's nursing :lol3:.

Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone. I did weights this evening and found that the black kitten had lost 8g in a day, so I'm starting him on supplemental feeds, too. 

I did get a syringe and it's gone a little better than the bottle. I also took them out of the room to feed and I at least didn't have to worry about stressed-out mom, which was good. The 3ml seems like a good amount for the time being. And I've gotten a little more skilled at it so they are wearing less.  Unfortunately, the ginger did not gain any weight - but he didn't lose any either, which I guess is good.

When I came back in the room from feeding the black one, three were nursing and the ginger was not. So I helped the black one find a nipple, but I had a really hard time getting the ginger on a nipple - he didn't seem to want to nurse all that much. Then one of the guys that had gained 30g in one day (!) was pushing the ginger off the nipple, so I helped defend his space until he came off on his own. Do kittens get a favorite spot? I think there are enough nipples (it is hard to see since mama is a medium-haired mostly-black tortie). 

Mama has gained some weight since they've been with us (a week now). I increased her canned food (she always licks the bowl clean), and she has constant access to dry food.

They were all growing ridiculously well - typically gaining 15-25g in a day. This sucks.    Thanks again everyone for the ideas and guidance.

Yes they sure do.

Kittens have their favorite nipple by the end of their first week, and will fight tooth and nail for it.

What I see happening is, those 2 are getting the top nipples, which do NOT produce enough milk, so they are starving basically and need to be supplemented, then once you get them stronger they need to be rotated.

The big ones pulled out allowing the smaller ones to nurse all they want.

It works beautifully and will save these kids.

You NEED daily weight gains, every single day.

Thanks catwoman. It would have been funny to watch the nipple battle if I wasn't worried about the kitten I was trying to get to nurse!

They have an appointment with the vet on Friday just to be sure nothing else is going on. I don't see any evidence of URIs.

Can you tell me what you mean by top nipple? I see she prefers to lie on her right side to nurse, but would she lie that way all the time? Or do you mean closest to her front paws?

I'll keep everyone posted. I do evening weights, though I will probably weigh those two this morning. Unfortunately I work today so I won't be able to do quite as many feedings, but I'll cram a bunch into the morning and evening.

Top meaning the pair closest to her front paws. The lower ones produce a greater amt of milk (towards her back legs)

Those scraps fighting off a kitten to reclaim "their" nipple can be brutal! Those tiny claws are just ripping at the other baby.

You will likely find that the vets don't know much at all about baby kittens unfortunately. 

The key to pulling them through is getting that intake increased, asap too since they are already trying to go downhill, and each additional day they do not get enough to thrive and turn around, means it can seal their fate basically. No turning back once it gets to a point, and we don't know when  that point will hit, so right away, get them supplemented enough to gain a decent amt every day.

Thanks catwoman707. The black one gained back his weight and then some, so I'm not so worried about him. I'll probably keep weighing him twice a day for the next couple of days to be on the safe side.

Unfortunately, things did not go so well for the ginger kitten. Despite a bunch of syringe feedings, he continued to lose weight. When I came in after work, the four kittens were huddled and he was separate (I felt like that was a really bad sign). I took him to the vet tech of the shelter that I foster through, and after an examination, they said it would be kindest to euthanize. So they did.  They gave him the shot and let me hold him until he passed, then they gave me all the time I wanted afterwards. I had never been present for a euthanasia before - it was very peaceful. Boy I blubbered like a fool. They are very good people at that shelter - gave me hugs and thanked me for the good work I was doing. 

I so appreciate all the good advice I got here - I know I was able to do everything I could to give him a chance at survival. And hopefully I won't be posting for any advice anymore, just pics of some adorable kittens once they are mobile and ridiculous.

Aww.....  How sad

My eyes are watering even. Oh how sad it is, I know, too well really. 

You know you have done a great job all around, sometimes they are just not meant to be, no explanations, it is what it is, that's the reality of it all, it doesn't make us bawl any less of course.

I've been there for that first spotting one baby is off by itself, I know the feeling..........it's never a good sign.

Keep a close watch on the rest of the herd Make sure that weight gain stays steady, they will do just fine

Looking forward to pics always!!

Thanks catwoman. Everyone checked in at a good weight gain today (not as strong, but 8g minimum) so I'm hopeful that I'll still have four healthy kittens to adopt out. I'm going to have to redo the weight chart, I don't think I can bear a whole blank row day after day.   The rescue gave me a whole can of KMR, so I'm going to hold onto it for a couple more weeks before I return it. (I try to be a good steward of their limited resources.)

It's nice to know that others have been there, I really appreciate your kind words.

Their eyes are open now (just sleepy in these pics). And they are a lot more mobile, doing a lot of army crawling. The pic with mama cracked me up with the well-timed squeal. 

Little cubbie bears, so cute!