Elderly cat issues

eastsierra

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I have an 18 year old cat who is healthy, but has some difficulty getting around (can't jump on couch anymore, etc.) and may be losing some eyesight (quick movements frighten her) and a younger adult cat (8 years).  They have never really gotten along although they have been together for 5 years.  This hasn't been a big issue as they have always sort of ignored each other.  It took two years for them to sit on the same couch or bed.  They have never actually fought, just some hissing at first.  My problem is that, recently, the younger cat has taken to chasing and intimidating the older one.  There seems to be some rivalry when I am home as the older cat just wants to sit on me constantly and the younger one doesn't want to be with both of us.  When the younger one chases the older one, I try using the spray bottle, but it is usually out of reach and once I get it, the issue has stopped.  I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice on how to deal with this.  I don't want my older cat's last years to be unhappy.  I have even thought that I would ask my cousin to watch the younger cat for awhile, but I'm thinking the older one still has a few years left and you can't ask someone to 'watch' your cat for that long.  If it were a month or two, I would find someone to keep the younger one and just spend time with the older one, but don't know what to do in this situation.  Any advice or personal experience would be appreciated.  Thank you!
 

casozlou

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Did you do a slow introduction when you got the new cat?  Or did you just bring the cat in and let them figure it out?  When my husband and I moved in together, we both had a cat and I would spend an hour every day supervising their introduction, playing with both of them, and giving them treats when they played together without hissing.  It took about 6-8 months before they were both ok and able to groom each other and cuddle together when sleeping.  Then we adopted a 6 month kitten a few years later and had to go through the whole introduction phase again!  It took a good 8-12 months for all three of them to be ok together.

Have you tried playing with the two of them together and praising them when they don't hiss at each other?  You kind of have to act like the mother cat in order to help them interact better with each other.  Give them both separate times to play, praise them both, and lots of hugs and kisses!
 

di and bob

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When my 7 year old does that to my 14 year old I say "NO"! really loud and either pick him up and give him a 5 minute time out in another room or pick up my older one and give him security while I scold the young one. I guess I'm trying to be the top cat and letting him know that will not go on in my house. It works for a few weeks and then I have to do it all over again. He does run away from the older cat when I yell, so he does understand that what he is doing will not go unnoticed. I do understand that you want your older baby to enjoy his last years, I want that too. The only other thing I can think of is to make sure the younger cat has plenty of outlets for his energy, mine spends a lot of time wrestling and kicking his 'kickaroo', a long catnip toy big enough to wrestle, and I think that helps redirect some of his energy. All the luck and post if you find a solution!
 

mrsgreenjeens

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Are you giving the older cat anything for her joints?  Since she can't jump like she used to, the younger one probably senses she is weaker now and that can bring out the animal instinct to attack the weak animal.  That's why cat's don't show pain.  Anyway, if you are not treating her probably arthritis, you might try giving her some Cosaquin or Dasaquin.  It comes in tuna flavor and you just sprinkle it on her food (best if you serve canned, then you can mix it in)  Or if you can give her Krill Oil, even better
.  One of my cats loves it, the other two, not so much
.  OR, if she's really bad, your Vet can prescribe pain killers that are helpful. 
 

catwoman707

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Are you giving the older cat anything for her joints?  Since she can't jump like she used to, the younger one probably senses she is weaker now and that can bring out the animal instinct to attack the weak animal.  That's why cat's don't show pain.  Anyway, if you are not treating her probably arthritis, you might try giving her some Cosaquin or Dasaquin.  It comes in tuna flavor and you just sprinkle it on her food (best if you serve canned, then you can mix it in)  Or if you can give her Krill Oil, even better
.  One of my cats loves it, the other two, not so much
.  OR, if she's really bad, your Vet can prescribe pain killers that are helpful. 
This is exactly what I think happens too.

The younger one knows the older one is not what he used to be as far as strength/stamina, so he sees it as his chance to be the top cat now.

I have been dealing with 2 female cats for many years now who just tolerate each other but have always had to intervene now and then, sort of assisting the first top cat in keeping her position.

I give her small priority type privelages that help tell the second cat that she can not take charge. Placing food dish down first to the older cat, giving him the preferred spot on my bed, things like that.

It works too, despite the fact that when it comes to physical strength the second cat would by far prevail.

I just won't allow her to think her attempts will win. 
 
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eastsierra

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To make it easier, I should introduce my cats.  Travie is the older cat (18) and Kissa is the younger cat (8).

CasOzLou, apparently I did everything wrong when I introduced them.  I had 2 cats the same age, but one succumbed to chronic renal failure after fighting it for 8 years.  The surviving cat Travie just stopped doing anything and I was worried that she was depressed.  I thought introducing a new cat would help her get active again.  I thought it would be best to get an adult female cat like her, but have since learned that it would have been better to get a kitten so the older cat would have an easier time remaining in charge.  I've also learned that it would have been better to get a male cat as 2 female adults often don't get along.  Well, hindsight.  I did work with them to try to get them acquainted and played with them together, etc.

I think catwoman707 has it right.  Kissa senses that the older one doesn't have the strength and stamina as previous.  I do give Travie preference, but this is how it has always been.  Since they don't cuddle, etc. they have their places.  When I'm on the couch, Travie sits on my lap and Kissa on the back of the couch by my head or on the arm of the couch.  Travie sleeps right next to me and Kissa prefers my feet.  I have to separate them to eat or Kissa will eat all the wet food (they have all day access to dry food).  I think this is part of the problem.  I started putting Travie in the bedroom to eat, but couldn't monitor it so when I opened the door, Kissa went in and slurped up whatever was in the bowl.  Now I put Kissa in the bedroom and coax Travie to eat before letting Kissa back out.  I think Kissa resents this and takes it out on Travie.

mrsgreenjeens, I am giving Travie a shot of Adequan weekly for her joints.  I know cats hide their pain, but she doesn't seem in pain, just stiff and has some minimal balance issues.  I have put boxes in a step pattern by my bed and she can go up and down them (she still jumps down about half the time, but doesn't attempt to jump up anymore).  For some reason, she won't use a box to get on the couch.  She will grab the seat with her front claws and pull herself up or just look at me until I pick her up.

Di and Bob, I try to give Kissa lots of play time, the problem is that she will only play with each toy once and for a limited amount of time.  Travie is one of those cats that thinks she is human.  Kissa thinks I am a cat.  When she's done playing, she will attack my hand or leg.  Not aggressively, but I do get scratched.  She bites, but does not break the skin.  I think this is her preferred manner of play, but not one that I go along with.  As soon as the claws come out, we're done.  I also put her treats in little box thing that she has to roll around to get the treat out so that gives her some stimulation.  I like your other suggestion about giving time outs.  Like I said, I have tried the spray bottle, but they don't do this in front of me.  I guess I have been afraid to 'discipline' unless I actually am there in the moment.  It takes me about 20-30 seconds to get to the scene and by that time, everything is fine.  Have you had luck with carrying out the 'punishment' when you don't catch them in the act? 

I will try the spray bottle and time outs when this happens even if I get there late and see what happens. 

Also, it sounds like you guys have experience with older cats.  Do you have any dietary suggestions?  Travie has eaten premium dry food all her life until about 6 months ago (when all this started).  When my previous cat was on a wet food diet, Travie wouldn't touch it.  She recently lost a lot of weight so I tried the wet food again.  She will only eat the grocery brand wet food with gravy (the vet says to feed her whatever she will eat at this point and not worry so much about the quality, just get her to eat).  She will generally lick out all the gravy and leave the food chunks without prodding from me.  I'm wondering if there is a gravy type food with nutrients to give her a little extra.  I don't think it is a chewing problem as she will still eat a very little of the dry food and the vet says her teeth are fantastic (like the teeth of a much younger cat).  She is still very skinny, but seems to be holding her weight with the gravy food diet.  She eats about 3 tablespoons of wet food per day.  I think she would eat 1/2 a cup of gravy if that was an option.

Thanks you for all your responses!
 

mrsgreenjeens

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Has she had a recent blood workup lately about her weight loss.  That can be indicative of a few things that older cats sometimes get, like kidney disease, diabetes, thyroid issues.  And that could be another reason for the attacking.  My old girl has kidney disease, and now she only weighs 5 lbs.   She used to rule the roost around here, but lately one of my boys has been giving her a hard time, and yesterday we got confirmation that her kidney disease is advancing
So....if you haven't had her bloodwork done lately, you might do that.

As far as food goes, there ARE some pet gravies you can buy to add to their food.  I have never tried them, but they actually make one that's got additives for hips and joints.  It's called Vita Gravy.  Mixed reviews on it,and my girl is SO PICKY that I just haven't bothered.  You can also try giving her an egg yolk.  Some cats love those.  Either cooked or raw.  They are high caloric.  The only thing is, IF she has developed kidney disease, egg yolks are not good for her, but egg whites are, they just aren't high calorie.  But they are great protein for her stamina.   You can also try mixing digestive enzymes into her food.  This helps ALL the food get utilized.  I've noticed, though, when I add it to my girls food, it turns the gravy into a more liquid form.  Wish it would liquify the meat so she would eat that too
.   Have you tried just putting the entire can of food into your personal blender and making the entire thing into gravy (soup).  I used to do this all the time with any of Callie's food, and added quite a bit of water and egg whites to it when she was in her "i only want soup" phase.  That way all she had to do was lap it up.  Sometimes even now that she is past that phase, I will take a fork and squish the meat pieces up over and over again so they are so small they blend well into the gravy and she gets most of them up in the gravy.  Are you feeding Travie the Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers?  The fork method works pretty well with those.  I actually switch between those and the FF CLASSICS with my very picky old girl.  She will eat only one or two flavors of the CLASSICS, and I have to soften them up with the digestive enzymes and a little water, and warm them up in the microwave if they've been in the fridge, AND I can only about .75 of an ounce on her plate in any one sitting or she won't eat, but I can usually get her to eat about 3 oz per day this way.  Plus I feed her Temptations all thru the night (yes I keep a snack size ziploc bag of them under my pillow just for her
...hey, she's my baby!)  Temptations are junk, I know, but she likes them, and they claim they are 100% nutritionally complete.  Anything to get calories in her.  And the boys have learned to stay away from her while she's eating them until she's finished.  Then and only then can they come over and lick up any crumbs.  And that's the only junk food they are ever allowed


Have you tried giving her treats like Wholelife or Purebites?  These are 100% freeze dried meats, like chicken, turkey, beef, salmon, etc.  They can also be used as toppers on wet food,   You can also try using other things as toppers to try to get her to eat more.  You can use tuna juice, parmesan cheese (from the green can), even crush up some of her favorite kibble and sprinkle on some canned food.  You can even see if she'll drink some KMR or goat's milk.  There's also Nutri-Cal, which comes in a tube like toothpaste.  Again, they either love it or hate it. 
 
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eastsierra

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mrsgreenjeens, wow.  What great ideas.  I was on the verge of googling where I might get Vitagravy, when I kept reading.  Why did I never think of the blender?  That sounds like it will be the perfect plan!  I have tried squishing it with water, but she won't even touch it if I add any water.  I will let you know how the blender words (once I find it, haven't used it in a couple of years). 

Travie is a very bushy kind of cat and has lots of hair.  I had noticed that she was losing a bit of weight, but didn't realize how much until I had to get her shaved.  It seems like mats just pop up over night.  I can usually get them out with the brush, but I had family visiting and she mostly hides in the bedroom when other people are over so I didn't get to them right away.  When I brought her back from being shaved, I could see how skinny she had gotten.  What a shock.  My brother (don't you love older brothers?) said she looked like she died the previous week.  This was all before her (and Kissa's) behavior changes.  I took her to the vet.  She had a full exam and bloodwork.  Kidneys are fine.  No problems noted, just the joint stiffness.  For some reason, she was limping at the vet office although she didn't limp at home either immediately before or after the vet visit.  That is when we started the weekly shots.

I will com back to reread all your wonderful ideas, but think I will start with the blender and move to the Vitagravy (or maybe together) first and see how it goes.  Right now I am feeding Friskies (that's what she seems to eat the best, I ahve tried many brands), but I have several cans of Authority left that she won't touch as they don't have gravy.  I think I will try throwing some of that in the blender with the Friskies and see if that will get her some more nutrition.  Her hair is growing out and I'm paranoid about feeling her ribs to make sure I don't miss the weight loss again.  The problem is she really only likes to be pet on the head/neck and tail.  When I pet her body, she sticks her head between my hand and her body :)

Thanks for all the tips!
 

riley1

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Sounds like you got some good advice.  In addition to the joint supplements sometimes pain meds are given unless the vet thinks they will upset her stomach.  Have you tried things like baby food.  My cat never liked it much but I know others have had good luck with it.  She may be avoiding the solid foods because it upsets her stomach; that is what my cat did.  The blood work is an excellent idea.  That way you can find out if there is anything else going on. If she feels better she may eat more & won't be such an easy target for the other.   Not fond of the spray bottle idea for just the reason you mentioned, that you aren't always there and I don't think any kind of punishment works with cats.  I would keep the younger one locked in a room when you go out.  You don't want to come home to the aftermath of a fight.  I know you are focused on your old cat; I would be as well.  Try giving the younger one a little more attention.  She may be feeling left out.
 

mrsgreenjeens

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If she doesn't like water added to her food, you may not be able to use a blender, as it sometimes is too thick without added water to go in the blender.  Maybe just try squishing with a fork without adding water.  You have to do it over and over, then scape out the tines with a spoon and jut keep at it, and it will never get completely smooth, but it gets the chunks  fairly tiny.

Well, I'm glad the blood test came back normal, because that means you can feed her anything and not have to worry about repercussions.  Hopefully she'll like egg yolks mixed into her food
.  If she doesn't like them raw, then maybe just lightly poach them, but have them runny enough that they are like gravy too, and mix them into the Friskies.  Each yolk has about 60 calories.  And you can always start with just a little bit of one.  Oh, did I mention FortiFlora?  It's considered Kitty Crack by many
.  Two of mine go nuts for it...I can sprinkle it  on just about anything and they eat it.  The other one hates it
.   Last night I brought it out again after Callie stopped eating, and she dug in again
 
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