Momma had her kittens today and I KNOW she is going to have some trouble soon!

kenzie riann · Feb 10, 2015

Ok, so... gonna try to keep this long story short.

I live with a family friend who hasn't had his four cats fixed. Two boys, two girls. One of the girls (Sweetie) is the mother of them all. We've been trying to get them fixed since we moved here but we have had the means to drive to the place where we can get them fixed for a low price. The Carol House Quick Fix Clinic in St. Louis is amazing and they were wonderful with my baby Rhodey, and we'd love to get all the cats there. Our friend is fine with getting them fixed, he just never really understood or saw the need too.

This is... I want to say her 3rd or 4th litter. Sweetie herself is about 3-5 years old. The previous two litters, did not make it. Our friend works full time and is in and out of the hospital and gets sick frequently. It was too late by the time he realized that Sweetie wasn't producing milk. Given that this has happened the last two litters, I'm fully expecting it to happen with this one as well and I want to be prepared. So far, everyone seems to be doing great. She gave birth to two little kittens, cleaned them, did her thing, and they seem to be getting milk right now.

But, this is my first time dealing with kittens this young. I have no idea where to even start. I've gotten a nice warm little nest ready, and plan on moving momma and kittens soon. One Wednesday or Thursday, I plan on going out to get some things I may need, but I have no idea what I will need. Two bottles, and kitten formula? Is there a specific kind I should look for? Is there anything else I will need?

I'm at a total loss here.

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kenzie riann
Feb 10, 2015

red top rescue · Feb 10, 2015

Mama cats like dark places for their babies (important at about 10 days when their eyes start to open) so I would suggest covering the cage with a blanket for now, and perhaps putting the warm little nest you prepared in a closet when you move her. That way her litter box and food can be outside the closet, away from babies, and she can come and go as she pleases, assuming you have one room you can close off for her.

KMR is a good kitten milk replacement formula and can be found at most pet stores and feed stores. From our experience, it is best to get the powdered kind in a can and mix it as you go along. Be sure to refrigerate the can of powder once it is opened! The liquid form of KME often gives them diarrhea and we don't use it here in our rescue group. Goat's milk is also good and often easy to find fresh in the dairy section of your supermarket. You should supplement the mama cat with this too and make sure she gets all the wet food she wants to eat. There is an article here on hand-raising kittens which may help with feeding if you need to supplement them. [if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]http://www.thecatsite.com/a/hand-rearing-kittens[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w

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Normal";mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;mso-style-noshow:yes;mso-style-priority:99;mso-style-parent:"";mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;mso-para-margin-top:0in;mso-para-margin-right:0in;mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:0in;line-height:115%;mso-pagination:widow-orphan;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;}</style><![endif] and the article refers you to a very comprehensive Kitten Care Handbook at http://www.kittenrescue.org which we highly recommend.

You should have a small syringe handy as they are unlikely to suck on a bottle at this age, especially if they are still happy sucking on their mama. She will provide comfort and cleaning even if her milk dries up. You should weigh the kittens daily on a mail scale to make sure they are gaining weight. As they get older, if they are getting enough milk they will sleep quietly in a pile when their mama leaves them, but if they are not getting enough nutrition, they will be crying and restless and may start to suck on each other if mama cat is not there. She should produce more and more milk as they suckle, so do not supplement them unless it is needed. We are not sure why the last two litters didn't make it, but I'm wondering if the kittens got chilled at some point and then could not digest milk and then stopped suckling rather than her milk drying up for no reason. This time you will be watching very closely, and if there seems to be a problem, take the whole family to the vet. There is a shot they can give the mama cats to stimulate milk production if needed. Good luck with them and let us know how it's going.

kenzie riann · Feb 10, 2015

Red Top Rescue said:
Mama cats like dark places for their babies (important at about 10 days when their eyes start to open) so I would suggest covering the cage with a blanket for now, and perhaps putting the warm little nest you prepared in a closet when you move her. That way her litter box and food can be outside the closet, away from babies, and she can come and go as she pleases, assuming you have one room you can close off for her.

KMR is a good kitten milk replacement formula and can be found at most pet stores and feed stores. From our experience, it is best to get the powdered kind in a can and mix it as you go along. Be sure to refrigerate the can of powder once it is opened! The liquid form of KME often gives them diarrhea and we don't use it here in our rescue group. Goat's milk is also good and often easy to find fresh in the dairy section of your supermarket. You should supplement the mama cat with this too and make sure she gets all the wet food she wants to eat. There is an article here on hand-raising kittens which may help with feeding if you need to supplement them. 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5.4pt;mso-para-margin-top:0in;mso-para-margin-right:0in;mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:0in;line-height:115%;mso-pagination:widow-orphan;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;}</style><![endif] and the article refers you to a very comprehensive Kitten Care Handbook at http://www.kittenrescue.org which we highly recommend.

You should have a small syringe handy as they are unlikely to suck on a bottle at this age, especially if they are still happy sucking on their mama. She will provide comfort and cleaning even if her milk dries up. You should weigh the kittens daily on a mail scale to make sure they are gaining weight. As they get older, if they are getting enough milk they will sleep quietly in a pile when their mama leaves them, but if they are not getting enough nutrition, they will be crying and restless and may start to suck on each other if mama cat is not there. She should produce more and more milk as they suckle, so do not supplement them unless it is needed. We are not sure why the last two litters didn't make it, but I'm wondering if the kittens got chilled at some point and then could not digest milk and then stopped suckling rather than her milk drying up for no reason. This time you will be watching very closely, and if there seems to be a problem, take the whole family to the vet. There is a shot they can give the mama cats to stimulate milk production if needed. Good luck with them and let us know how it's going.

Thank you!!

We weren't living here with our friend when she had her last litters, so we can only go based off of what he saw. He said the previous litters were about 1.5 weeks old when they died. We're going to let mama handle everything and step in if we see anything wrong, now that we know what to look for.

We actually have an entire room set up for her. It's fairly empty save for a bed and a dresser, and it's nice and dark. She'll be away from the stress of the dogs and the other cats, but near us so we can see/hear if anyone starts crying.

Thank you again!

StefanZ · Feb 10, 2015

Kenzie Riann said:
Thank you!!

We weren't living here with our friend when she had her last litters, so we can only go based off of what he saw. He said the previous litters were about 1.5 weeks old when they died. We're going to let mama handle everything and step in if we see anything wrong, now that we know what to look for.

We actually have an entire room set up for her. It's fairly empty save for a bed and a dresser, and it's nice and dark. She'll be away from the stress of the dogs and the other cats, but near us so we can see/hear if anyone starts crying.

Thank you again!

It can be several reasons, both hereditary, and others.

Weighting them every day helps much, this way you do have a decent control on if and when you must step in. Also, weighting them you do held them in your hands, and get a quick look see. This is another way to observe oncoming problems.

For example, one forumist lost a whole litter to fleas. She was learned not to touch the kittens till they were at least two weeks old...And thus, she had no clue there was a big problem there...

Get home also glucose sugar, best in powder. Its useful to make homemade pedialyte, and also, to preak up lethargic kittens on way to go downhill. Helps sometimes.

Glucose sugar is useful in many home situations, so if you dont need it for the kittens, you can surely use it in the household later on.

Good luck!

kenzie riann · Feb 11, 2015

StefanZ said:
It can be several reasons, both hereditary, and others.

Weighting them every day helps much, this way you do have a decent control on if and when you must step in. Also, weighting them you do held them in your hands, and get a quick look see. This is another way to observe oncoming problems.

For example, one forumist lost a whole litter to fleas. She was learned not to touch the kittens till they were at least two weeks old...And thus, she had no clue there was a big problem there...

Get home also glucose sugar, best in powder. Its useful to make homemade pedialyte, and also, to preak up lethargic kittens on way to go downhill. Helps sometimes.

Glucose sugar is useful in many home situations, so if you dont need it for the kittens, you can surely use it in the household later on.

Good luck!

Thanks! I too was told not to touch them until they were a few weeks old, but momma seems to be very comfortable with me being around. Anytime I sit down just to watch them and see how they're doing, she gets up to go eat and do her business, as if to say "Oh great, the baby sitter is here!".

we're actually leaving here in the next few minutes to go get some things we need, like a scale, some food, etc.

If we do see fleas on the kittens, how do we treat that? I know a lot of flea treatments aren't safe for younger kittens. And the adult cats do have fleas. Miracles happened and they haven't affected my own cat, who lives exclusively on the second story of the house, but if we brought momma and kittens to the second story of the house, then that would bring fleas with them.

tulosai · Feb 11, 2015

We actually have a great article on fleas in young cats here http://www.thecatsite.com/a/how-to-treat-fleas-in-young-kittens

If you have any other questions that are not addressed in the article please let us know.

Also, whatever you do, do NOT use Hartz flea treatment on mom or on the kittens. This is VERY dangerous for them. Using Dawn or some other MILD liquid soap is probably your best bet, since even if some flea shampoo (again, NOT Hartz) cold be okay for mom, there is a big risk the kittens will get some in them - which isn't necessary safe..

Just combing out with a comb does helps some. Have a plate with soap water nearby, and drown the fleas you combed out in there.

If you do bathe the kittens be extra sure it is warm in the room, no drauft, and dry off them thoroughly afterwards. And some warm padding or similiar - they are VERY bad at keeping their body temperature stable, so active warming is necessary in many situations.

And definitely don't be afraid to touch/weigh the kittens

Just make sure mama can see you like @StefanZ says

kenzie riann · Feb 11, 2015

tulosai said:
We actually have a great article on fleas in young cats here http://www.thecatsite.com/a/how-to-treat-fleas-in-young-kittens

If you have any other questions that are not addressed in the article please let us know.

Also, whatever you do, do NOT use Hartz flea treatment on mom or on the kittens. This is VERY dangerous for them. Using Dawn or some other MILD liquid soap is probably your best bet, since even if some flea shampoo (again, NOT Hartz) cold be okay for mom, there is a big risk the kittens will get some in them - which isn't necessary safe..

Just combing out with a comb does helps some. Have a plate with soap water nearby, and drown the fleas you combed out in there.

If you do bathe the kittens be extra sure it is warm in the room, no drauft, and dry off them thoroughly afterwards. And some warm padding or similiar - they are VERY bad at keeping their body temperature stable, so active warming is necessary in many situations.

And definitely don't be afraid to touch/weigh the kittens Just make sure mama can see you like @StefanZ says

You guys are amazing, thank you.

So, I just got done weighing the babies. Their weights are as follows:

Baby #1 4.20 OZ
Baby #2 2.65 OZ
Baby #3 3.70 OZ

I'm actually really worried about baby #2. He is noticeably smaller than his siblings, and seems to struggle to find a nipple. The other two find one, latch on, and are good. But #2 struggles to find a nipple, and if momma or siblings move at all, he loses it and continues to struggle to find one.

Should I start feeding him soon? He is very vocal, and very squirmy, much more so than his siblings. The other two fell asleep in my hand while I wrote down their weights.

tulosai · Feb 11, 2015

It definitely is not too early to start supplementing him with some KMR. How old are they exactly? Do you have any questions about how to feed him?

kenzie riann · Feb 11, 2015

tulosai said:
It definitely is not too early to start supplementing him with some KMR. How old are they exactly? Do you have any questions about how to feed him?

They were born Monday morning, so they're close to 3 days old. He smacked me when I tried a bottle, but he's a little more accepting of a syringe, which we do have plenty of. Like, is there any specific way I should hold him to make it easier, or help him accept it a little more? He's definitely a fighter.

catapault · Feb 11, 2015

It is very important to hold them for feeding just like they'd be with momma cat - belly down and head up. NOT like you would hold a human baby. With a syringe just give a couple of drops in his cheek, let him swallow, then a couple of drops more. Go! Little Black, Grow!

kenzie riann · Feb 11, 2015

Catapault said:
It is very important to hold them for feeding just like they'd be with momma cat - belly down and head up. NOT like you would hold a human baby. With a syringe just give a couple of drops in his cheek, let him swallow, then a couple of drops more. Go! Little Black, Grow!

Ok good, that's exactly what I was trying to do.

Thank you everyone! I'll keep updating with how they're all doing.

StefanZ · Feb 11, 2015

Which kmr do you use?

Otherwise, a tip is to let the weakest nurse when siblings are asleep. So he wont be disturbed.

You do have totally right, its the smallest / weakest, whom is your yellow flag, and you must follow up extra vigilant, and if necessary, help.

kenzie riann · Feb 11, 2015

kenzie riann · Feb 12, 2015

Baby dropped weight over night. He was 2.65, he's now 2.35. Going to put him on a full feeding schedule now. He's so small compared to his siblings...

StefanZ · Feb 12, 2015

Kenzie Riann said:
Baby dropped weight over night. He was 2.65, he's now 2.35. Going to put him on a full feeding schedule now. He's so small compared to his siblings...

Yes, apparently this is necessary. He is perhaps very weak at suckling. In such cases, a syringe is much easier, as it is enough they do swallow, they dont need to suckle.

What kmr do you use?

Good luck!

tulosai · Feb 12, 2015

StefanZ said:
Yes, apparently this is necessary. He is perhaps very weak at suckling. In such cases, a syringe is much easier, as it is enough they do swallow, they dont need to suckle.

What kmr do you use?

Good luck!

Yes please do tell us what KMR you are using.

In terms of a schedule, if you can, you should be feeding him every few hours, with slightly longer breaks between feedings overnight so you can get some sleep. Really, since he is so young, you should feed him as often as you can and he will take some.

Is he taking the formula from the syringe well?

kenzie riann · Feb 12, 2015

tulosai said:
Yes please do tell us what KMR you are using.

In terms of a schedule, if you can, you should be feeding him every few hours, with slightly longer breaks between feedings overnight so you can get some sleep. Really, since he is so young, you should feed him as often as you can and he will take some.

Is he taking the formula from the syringe well?

The KMR, we got from Petco, it was the only one they had in powder form and our only option.

We're feeding him every few hours, and he's starting to accept the syringe a little more. I managed to get him to eat a good bit. I'm actually about to go feed him now. Just hoping he starts gaining weight. ):

His siblings are growing and doing great, I just feel so bad for this little guy. He is definitely a fighter. He's extremely wobbly, and frequently flops onto his side and back. I try to be close by so I can correct him and keep him close to momma and help him find a nipple. But the way it's looking, I'm starting to wonder if it will be better to set up a nest just for him and keep him with me.

I DID see him poop though. Is that a good sign? Momma started licking him immediately and getting him going, and cleaning him up.

tulosai · Feb 12, 2015

If mom is not rejecting him DEFINITELY keep him with her, do not separate them. Setting up a separate nest for him at this age is a far more complex endeavor than you might think because he CANNOT regulate his body heat at all and needs mom to do that for him. It can be done when necessary (and if it becomes necessary we will talk to through it) but it is really much safer and healthier to leave him with mom and just step in to feed him every few hours.

What you describe about the pooping and mom cleaning it is normal

hank you for helping this baby.

StefanZ · Feb 12, 2015

Kenzie Riann said:
The KMR, we got from Petco, it was the only one they had in powder form and our only option.

We're feeding him every few hours, and he's starting to accept the syringe a little more. I managed to get him to eat a good bit. I'm actually about to go feed him now. Just hoping he starts gaining weight. ):

His siblings are growing and doing great, I just feel so bad for this little guy. He is definitely a fighter. He's extremely wobbly, and frequently flops onto his side and back. I try to be close by so I can correct him and keep him close to momma and help him find a nipple. But the way it's looking, I'm starting to wonder if it will be better to set up a nest just for him and keep him with me.

I DID see him poop though. Is that a good sign? Momma started licking him immediately and getting him going, and cleaning him up.

if it is Hartz, try to swich it away. But if it is the brand KMR by PetAg, this is good.

Goat milk they sell in Walmart and the like, surely bottled, but perhaps also fresh. Goat milk is useful, you can safely use it. If there are several bottled variations use the full fat.

kenzie riann · Feb 13, 2015

StefanZ said:
if it is Hartz, try to swich it away. But if it is the brand KMR by PetAg, this is good.

Goat milk they sell in Walmart and the like, surely bottled, but perhaps also fresh. Goat milk is useful, you can safely use it. If there are several bottled variations use the full fat.

It is the brand KMR by PetAg.

Ok so, my husband, myself, and our roommate have all been taking turns feeding him. My roommate feeds him in the morning before he leaves for work, and left a note for us this morning, telling us that momma placed one of the kittens on the floor, away from herself and siblings. He didn't specify which kitten it was, but I can only assume it's little Black.

If it was little Black that she placed on the floor, is this her rejecting him?

Momma had her kittens today and I KNOW she is going to have some trouble soon!

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