Day-Old Abandoned Litter of Five

dustytiger · Feb 8, 2015

@Catapault, Thanks! I should probably try not to take the fatigue take the reins, tbh. It's starting to get kinda tough.

@Reba, I guess I could see if the shelter might have some formula they could sell. I'd hate to have to wait for it to arrive by mail. With any luck it won't come to that, though.

@Riley1, I found the chart, thank you! It's so much easier to figure out, omg.

But the kittens haven't opened their eyes yet, though they do seem to be about to. I can just sort of see the corners opening a little bit.

I'll keep my resident cat away from them, then, though. Honestly, she hasn't really shown any sign of wanting anything to do with them anyway. She seems scared of them, so I've been keeping them separate so as not to stress her. I'll also try to change clothes or maybe put on special clothes when interacting with them, so as not to risk her catching any diseases.

I've actually spoken to the vet about vaccinations and deworming, and he said I can bring them in for both once they're a few months old, but for now I'm just sort of trying to keep an eye out for any physical signs of parasites or diseases.

Thank you for your help!

catwoman707 · Feb 8, 2015

Riley1 said:
Don't know how I missed this tread either. I am a experienced foster, as well. I take kittens from the shelter all spring, summer & fall. From the picture you sent I don't believe they are newborns. Their ears are fully up & I assume their eyes are open as well. Sometimes, if not feed enough they are just small. Here is a link for how much to feed them.

http://www.maddiesfund.org/search-r....maddiesfund.org/index.htm&ss=4725j4293899j17

If you can't see it, go to Maddie's Fund & enter feeding kittens in the search box. It is a chart to feed them by weigh, stomach capacity & timing of feedings. At this age they should be feed about every two hours round the clock. If they are asleep you should wake them up for feeding. Maddie's fund is a wealth of information on all things kitten even if you are experienced. Could you order a type of KMR over the internet? They also sell something called First Milk for the antibodies. At this point they may be too old for the absorption.

I would not let your resident cat anywhere near them. When I fostered & Rizzo was here, I would change my clothes & use hand sanitizer each time I would leave the room. Also, put booties on my shoes. Even so, kittens usually have URIs and can be easily transmitted to your adult cat. If the kittens develop URI's they need antibiotics They need distemper shots in three series. Also, although rare FIP, FIV & Feluc can be transmitted from the mother to the kittens. You are right to deworm them but many dewormers are not safe for kittens. Neither are ear mite or flea medication. My kittens gain 3 oz per week on average. If they don't start gaining after you get the right thing to feed them, there is something wrong.

I hope this is of help & I did not repeat a lot of what has been already been said.

Good luck & thank you for helping these homeless & orphan babies.

Some of your info is not quite accurate, just to clarify so we don't confuse the OP.

Their eyes are not open nor are their ears up, today they should be 6-7 days old.

FIP and FIV are not transferred from the mom. FELV can be.

If they are fed the correct/appropriate amt and do not gain, something is wrong with the scale, not the kittens. Even sick kittens will gain weight when they consume the proper amt.

Deworming can be done as young as 4 weeks old safely if needed with pyrantel. ALL should be dewormed by 6 weeks, then repeated in 2 weeks.

Their first vaccine (FVRCP) should be at 7-8 weeks old. Normally I wait until 9 weeks due to moms maternal antibodies but these are bottle fed so it can be started younger for protection.

3 weeks later, another, then 3 weeks later, another, and that's it until a year old.

Rabies can be done when they are spayed/neutered.

Fleas can be deadly for kittens who are very young, so keep an eye out for any. They have a VERY small amt of blood in those tiny bodies and flea infestation can cause serious/fatal anemia.

Commonly babies will need terramycin eye ointment for bacterial infected eyes. You will see goopy, crusty look.

Key here is to get that weight gain daily. It's critical for their survival

You're doing a great job!

I do wonder about your vet's advice though............a few months old for deworming and vaccines?

Also just to add, no need to worry about sterilizing bottles, etc. Normal bacteria is fine, mom's have plenty on them and in their mouths

Just worry about feeding, that is enough of a job now without thinking ahead! Good luck!

riley1 · Feb 8, 2015

Thanks Catwoman. I was referring to over the counter products (we use pyrantel as well) and I know that FIP is transmitted through direct contact & feces & FIV thru bites. I just wanted to impress not having your adult in with the new babies. I did have some kittens that did not gain weight & I used the shelter scale to be sure. They were not healthy, however. We do distemper at 6 weeks and every 3 weeks after so this may be a regional thing or maybe because we turn them over for adoption so quickly. I did a really silly thing with one group of kittens: their eyes were shut in the picture I was looking at & because they were so small, I thought their eyes were not open. Normally, the shelter manager goes & picks them out in person but I was going thru kitten withdrawal & had to have some. Turned out they had really bad URI & were just plain sickly as well.

Thanks for the help!

catwoman707 · Feb 8, 2015

Aww! I know, my fosters are starting to get restless for their kitten fixes, I keep telling them, don't rush it, we will be swamped VERY soon!

dustytiger · Feb 8, 2015

OKAY I need help! My younger brother overfed the kittens while I was sleeping and now they have diarrhea! What should I do? Their poop is really diluted and I'm worried they're going to get dehydrated. Should I start them on the rehydration mixture that's in the link before? I don't have glucose powder, could I substitute it for anything? Am I being too hasty? Should I just have them on diluted milk formula for now?

catwoman707 · Feb 8, 2015

You have just switched their milk correct?

This happens, either diarrhea or constipation. Carry on as normal and lets see how they are by morning/afternoon.

I sure do wish you could get ahold of KMR. Shoot.

dustytiger · Feb 8, 2015

I did switch the milk, but they were doing fine on it several feedings after.

He REALLY overfed them. I told him to wake me up feeding times because I set alarms for them but I can't always get up on my own 'cos I wouldn't have slept most of the night, but he decided to feed them for me and then gave them 10ml each. I don't know what to do!

I've already called my sister to check out the pet shop for KMR for me. She'll call me if she finds any. If she doesn't I'm going to try and order it online.

catwoman707 · Feb 8, 2015

Yeah 10 mls is def. alot......

It doesn't mean give more time in between though. It takes 2 hours for them to digest what goes in and then there is nothing.

So it can be dangerous to overfeed too. Oh boy, well let's hope they will get through all this.

The switch wouldn't show immediately, so I'm still thinking the change, but if fed 10mls, then that is definitely adding to their diarrhea.

Potty them every 15 mins or so for a while, to get as much back out as it digests as possible.

dustytiger · Feb 8, 2015

Okay, it's already their next feeding time, though. Should I feed them a the normal solution? I'd assumed that it might be because of the change as well, so I wasn't entirely worried, but I only just found out how much he gave them.

catwoman707 · Feb 8, 2015

I would give the norm yes.

If you notice extra fussing before they finish the amt they usually eat I wouldn't push it too much this first time.

reba · Feb 8, 2015

I wouldn't let anyone else feed them and I would read your brother the riot act. The other side of this is a lot of people under-worry and don't realize that little things can have serious consequences. One too hard squeeze and he can get milk into their lungs. Hopefully, they'll be fine. We had one horrible bought of diarrhea after I switched from the powder to the premixed KMR.

dustytiger · Feb 8, 2015

Ugh, I made it VERY clear that I didn't want anyone else feeding them, but he figured that since I was tuckered out he could give it a shot anyway. My family doesn't understand that it's not as simple as filling a bottle and letting the kittens drink as much as they want.

Thanks, though, I'll just keep giving them the formula every two hours and more potty breaks in between.

UPDATE: none of them seem to have diminished appetites

riley1 · Feb 8, 2015

I don't know where you are. Just put KMR in your search engine & it will give you on line ordering. Even if what you are using is OK I would still get the KMR. I would not let anyone else feed them as well. Overfeeding makes them very uncomfortable.

catwoman707 · Feb 8, 2015

Poor guy, his intentions were there, just much more dangerous than people realize.

I also had another thought too, not trying to add worries either but, he fed each baby 10 mls.....makes me wonder how fast it went in.............because it's a very slow process still since they aren't all that great at the bottle yet, and 10mls given at 2 drops per time would take a loong time to do, and with 5 kids? Eek, hope it took him a couple hours! Egads...just one drop inhaled....

Well let's hope for the best!

catwoman707 · Feb 8, 2015

Reba I believe Malaysia.

StefanZ · Feb 8, 2015

DustyTiger said:
Should I start them on the rehydration mixture that's in the link before? I don't have glucose powder, could I substitute it for anything?

There are also glucose tablets for sportsmen / sweets. These are flavored, but may be used. I think they are easier to find, then the boxes of powdered glucose.

As alternatives to pure glucose sugar, white caro syrup is often used - at least in America where they DO have this product. Possibly other white syrup products are similiar. and should be useful..

Honey is useful too, as it contains lots of glucose.

Even common sugar may work, but it takes much longer time, as it must be digested. While glucose begins its work already in the mouth.

Another version of diarrhea stopping rehydrating home made pedialyte is to use water from overboilded rice, and add kitchen salt into it. Say 2 tea spoons into one litre rice water.

It is good you DO have glucose at home, or some equivalent.

Its useful for making homemade pedialyte. But can also be used in emergencies, if a kittens becomes lethargic, loses forces. Sometimes you can perk them back by smearing a little glucose on their gum. Works almost instantly.

Works for humans too. For example, in people you suddenly realize they are going to get into diabetic coma, and there is no time to give them proper food. (these people get also uncooperative, when they have come a bit in the diabetes fit. In this situation, they dont realize the fit has began)

StefanZ · Feb 8, 2015

catwoman707 said:
I do wonder about your vet's advice though............a few months old for deworming and vaccines?

2-3 months for vaccinating sounds OK.   Deworming can and should be began earlier.

He perhaps wanted to spare you costs and trouble, and have everything done in the same occasion?

It depends also in part, exactly what dewormer he uses.

If I take the swedish example:

Banminth, which is based on pyrantel, is renown to be mild, and can be used on quite small kittens. Even 3 weeks if they are healthy.   Pyrantel works against roundworms - who almost all kittens have, unless form properly dewormed inside only moms.

You can probably find Pyrantel preparates on your own, as there are prescriptions free too. Just be sure there are no funny additives.

Axilur, often used in Sweden, is a all round dewormer, is known to be rather unpleasant for their tummies... And thus, cant be used on small kittens. And thus they must be at least 6 weeks, preferably 8 weeks...

Although the milder all round preparates as Milbomax and Drontal have become more common nowadays.

Still, I can imagine decently good vets who dont wants to deworm before 8 weeks.   It depends on what they have to use....

Norachan · Feb 9, 2015

Just wanted to send some good vibes for those little kittens.

dustytiger · Feb 9, 2015

Thank you all for your support!

I FINALLY got my hands on some KMR! It's the PetAg brand, but it's just a small can, tbh, about the size of a pepsi can. They only had one last one on the shelf, but said that they would put in an order for more, though they're not sure when it'll arrive. I also got a powdered goat milk for kittens which is the Green Empire brand. I got a pic of the nutritional value for it, and I'm hoping it'll be at least a bit better than the puppy one.

greenempie.png

dustytiger
Feb 9, 2015

I also passed by the vet and he gave me some glucose powder he said to mix in with their milk, and some multivitamins to mix in as well. I'm a little weary of his advice, though, because he also wanted me to go back to giving them the milk that had been starving them previously, but I'm glad I at least got my hands on some of the glucose powder.

They still have diarrhea, though, and I was thinking I might give them the KMR diluted --like suggested on messybeast-- with a 1:1 ratio, so 2ml of the KMR and 2ml of boiled then cooled water. If that doesn't seem to be working I'll switch them onto the pedialyte.

riley1 · Feb 9, 2015

I know they only had one can but if it is liquid, ask them to order the powder. Much cheaper.

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