Odontoclastic Resorptive Lesion.

I took my Amber for her annual check up this afternoon and was a little concerned that she might have an allergy to something as she has been grooming herself more than usual. A week or so ago I noticed some tiny lumps in her armpit but they have now gone and the vet seems to think that she may have had an allergy to fleas which is what I thought also.

After weighing Amber and giving her a once over she then checked her mouth and found an Odontoclastic Resorptive Lesion on her tiny front tooth. To me it looked like a bright red lump where her tooth is supposed to be and she would most definitely have been feeling pain.

My poor baby. The vet asked if she had gone off her food or had a change in behaviour at all but she has just been her normal self, no different.

Amber is now booked in for next Tuesday to have the tooth extracted and to have the others cleaned. I hope she will be ok. We have never had any dental issues in our cats before.

Has anyone else experienced Odontoclastic Resorptive Lesions?
Did your cat recover quickly?

It's good it is only in one tooth because usually it's the whole mouth. Tooth removal is usually the fail safe treatment for this and they recover well.

Thanks for your reply hexiesfriend.
Amber had her extraction yesterday and she ended up having to have two teeth out, poor thing.
She is feeling a lot better today and eating well and has has to go back Thursday for a check up. The vet said she will have to check her mouth regularly as it's likely she will get another but she was surprised that she she has this at only 2 years old.

How did the check up for Amber's teeth and mouth go, on Thursday?

I'm not really sure what Odontoclastic Resorptive Lesion was, so I went to look it up, online. 

My 14 year old Spotty, had to have 6 teeth removed last year, but did recover very quickly, however I do blame myself for not cleaning his teeth with enzymatic toothpaste, and missing his vet appointment when he was 12...since his usual vet would have been able to diagnose tooth decay, sooner. She caught it and also caught his heart murmur (grade 3) so wanted to be sure, that his heart was okay, before undergoing anaesthesia. (I did not ask, if it was FORL's...or some other type of decay.  He had a lot of plaque.  But when I take him in this year, I will ask them to write it down.)

Everything worked out, but I still should have been cleaning his teeth.

There is a thread on Site, here in which @Furmonster Mom talks about FORL's  ....Post #6......http://www.thecatsite.com/t/292108/teeth-cleaning

So maybe you can PM her, for more info, or read the thread.  I think her cats were older, though.

cat nap said:

How did the check up for Amber's teeth and mouth go, on Thursday?

I'm not really sure what Odontoclastic Resorptive Lesion was, so I went to look it up, online. 

My 14 year old Spotty, had to have 6 teeth removed last year, but did recover very quickly, however I do blame myself for not cleaning his teeth with enzymatic toothpaste, and missing his vet appointment when he was 12...since his usual vet would have been able to diagnose tooth decay, sooner. She caught it and also caught his heart murmur (grade 3) so wanted to be sure, that his heart was okay, before undergoing anaesthesia. (I did not ask, if it was FORL's...or some other type of decay.  He had a lot of plaque.  But when I take him in this year, I will ask them to write it down.)
Everything worked out, but I still should have been cleaning his teeth.

There is a thread on Site, here in which @Furmonster Mom
talks about FORL's  ....Post #6......http://www.thecatsite.com/t/292108/teeth-cleaning
So maybe you can PM her, for more info, or read the thread.  I think her cats were older, though.

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Thanks for asking cat nap. Her check up went well, she is healing very quick. She is actually eating a lot more since having the teeth removed which makes me feel awful because she must have been having some pain before.
I had no idea what it was either and we have never had to deal with dental issues in any of our cats. I asked her to write it down for me so that I could google it when I got home.
The vet was quite surprised that Amber had this at 2 years old as this is normally something she sees in older cats.

Aww I'm glad everything worked out ok with Spotty' s extractions especially having a heart murmur too. It's worrying when your pet has to have an anaesthetic at the best of times let alone having a heart condition too.

Thank you for the links, I will definitely have a read through them.

Yes, it did surprise me too, when I read your Amber is 2 years old.

I thought dental problems only happened in senior cats after 6 or 9 years.

Don't feel awful, because I also had no clue, how Spotty was feeling.  I think that your Amber and my Spotty, may just have a high pain tolerance. Some cats seem to hide pain so well, and then others, just stop eating. Spotty, continued to eat and do everything normally, except that his breath started to smell, but I thought it was from the canned food.  I am not very observant when it comes to teeth,cats etc...unless they stop eating, start limping or have problems in the litterbox.

Thanks for the well wishes for Spotty, and yes, I was a nervous wreck...on the day of the dental...but Winchester made me feel a lot better, because I was on the name 3 things thread...and mentioned that I was waiting for the call back to say if he was okay...and she mentioned it and asked about him...so somehow...just this question...made me realize how many cat people actually go through all the worrying, too.

Hey, @KittyWhiskers....I just saw this new thread today...and it's from your part of the world ....so maybe it would help, too.

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/292343/purina-pro-plan-dental-plus-adult-cat#post_3691860

Another person you can ask is @MServant,  but I think that her Mouse has an entirely different gum issue, and not a teeth issue, although I do know that she has posted many times about teeth cleaning and enzymatic toothpaste. 

Thanks for bringing this thread to my attention @cat nap  .  You are right, Mouse has a different reason for the gum problems he has had, at least so far.  There are quite a few other members here who have, or have had, cats with this and you are far from alone in dealing with this @KittyWhiskers  .   Those who are active members and come to mind are @GoHolistic  , @Denice, @Furmonster Mom, and @Winchester  .  I hope they are able to offer you some more support and information.

Mouse has been lucky so far and not needed any surgery.  What I can share is how terrible I felt for taking a long time to notice my cat was unwell, and he was extremely sick and had stopped eating by the time I paid attention to him. They hide pain so well, and checking your cat's mouth is not the easiest of tasks.   Even when the vet told me Mouse had infected ulcers on his gums, tonsils and tongue I still couldn't see them!  

I really hope Amber's surgery goes smoothly and that things improve for her once the tooth extraction and cleaning are done.   You are doing everything you can by taking her for her regular check up and then quickly following up with what the vet has reccommended, no one could do more than that; honestly.  These things can be very hard to spot, and are not down to something you have done or not done - these types of thing often come down to genetics and luck like so many health issues that affect us and our cats.   Amber is lucky she is with someone who will now do everything they can to help her and keep her comfortable and well.    

I have been trying to get both Amber and Sasha used to cat toothpaste since Amber's extractions and so far it's going pretty well. They both like to lick it off my finger so the next step is to try and get my finger or the finger brush in their mouth, this I know will be more difficult and the finger brush does seem really big for a cats mouth. I think I will buy a human toddler toothbrush as they are much smaller.
My vet recommended the Logic brand toothpaste as this has some effect even if you are unable to actually brush the teeth.
cat nap , how has Spotty taken to teeth cleaning? What sort of brush do you use?

I found an article about this issue which explains in simple terms what this condition is if anyone else is experiencing it too or just if you are interested to read.

http://www.kingwestvets.com/cat-cavities/

mservant , I have read your thread about Mouse's gum problem, poor little boy and yes they hide their pain so well it's awful to realise they were probably hurting so much. It makes you feel so guilty.

Thanks again everyone for all your support.

It's the Logic paste that I've used with Mouse and it does seem to make a difference even without regular use of a brush - If I stop using it, even still feeding the dental food, I can see plaque build up on his teeth within days.  Now his oral health has settled I try to brush about once a week and let him lick from my finger and rub around his teeth a little the other days so he continues to enjoy the routine.  It is so much better if your cat enjoys something and doesn't start to run off when they see you because a routine stresses them out.  I didn't start to use the brush when his mouth was still sore and gums were red, I just rubbed a little around his lips and outside of his teeth kind of like you are doing now.  My vet said that was best so he didn't associate it with any pain.

I apologize for the inacuracy in my post last night @KittyWhiskers  , I did know Amber had had her surgery but somehow in writing my post I got lost....   shouldn't post so late at night when my brain's stopped working.      May her recovery continue to go well. 

MServant said:

It's the Logic paste that I've used with Mouse and it does seem to make a difference even without regular use of a brush - If I stop using it, even still feeding the dental food, I can see plaque build up on his teeth within days.  Now his oral health has settled I try to brush about once a week and let him lick from my finger and rub around his teeth a little the other days so he continues to enjoy the routine.  It is so much better if your cat enjoys something and doesn't start to run off when they see you because a routine stresses them out.  I didn't start to use the brush when his mouth was still sore and gums were red, I just rubbed a little around his lips and outside of his teeth kind of like you are doing now.  My vet said that was best so he didn't associate it with any pain.

I apologize for the inacuracy in my post last night @KittyWhiskers
 , I did know Amber had had her surgery but somehow in writing my post I got lost....   shouldn't post so late at night when my brain's stopped working.  :lol3:    May her recovery continue to go well. 

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Yes, I thought that too that's why I started just by letting them taste it. Hopefully when I do try and put my finger or a brush into their mouth they won't mind so much.
Don't worry about the confusion, my brain does this even when it's not late at night! :lol3:

KittyWhiskers said:

Yes, I thought that too that's why I started just by letting them taste it. Hopefully when I do try and put my finger or a brush into their mouth they won't mind so much.
Don't worry about the confusion, my brain does this even when it's not late at night!

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If your kitties are like most others they will think their human is great fun!   Imagine them with a human finger offered and allowed to chew on without getting told off!      

KittyWhiskers said:

I have been trying to get both Amber and Sasha used to cat toothpaste since Amber's extractions and so far it's going pretty well. They both like to lick it off my finger so the next step is to try and get my finger or the finger brush in their mouth, this I know will be more difficult and the finger brush does seem really big for a cats mouth. I think I will buy a human toddler toothbrush as they are much smaller.
My vet recommended the Logic brand toothpaste as this has some effect even if you are unable to actually brush the teeth.
@cat nap, how has Spotty taken to teeth cleaning? What sort of brush do you use?

I found an article about this issue which explains in simple terms what this condition is if anyone else is experiencing it too or just if you are interested to read.

http://www.kingwestvets.com/cat-cavities/

@MServant, I have read your thread about Mouse's gum problem, poor little boy and yes they hide their pain so well it's awful to realise they were probably hurting so much. It makes you feel so guilty.

Thanks again everyone for all your support.

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Spotty, absolutely hates having his teeth cleaned.  I wish he was more like Amber, Sasha, or Mouse.  He smells it, and just sits there, and does not like opening his mouth, as though he thinks I am going to perform oral surgery or something. (He is just either super fussy, or because he is older, at 14 years, maybe he developed certain dislikes of smells and tastes...since he is the same way with different canned foods, healthy treats, etc.) 

Also, like you, I found that the finger brush, was way too big, and rough, (while brushing on the back of my hand)...(made for a crocodile or dog, and not for a cat).  So I use Q-tips cotton swabs, and dab a tiny amount of C.E.T. "poultry flavour" enzymatic toothpaste, on the swabs and into his mouth, onto the teeth, though sometimes missing and getting the gums.  My vet also said that as long as it's on the teeth, it will have a cleaning effect. I did try a toddler toothbrush, too, and it is much softer, but he seemed to get more annoyed. I wet down the toothbrush, and tried a soupy paste of warm water and a bit of toothpaste, but still he acted like I did not do it fast enough..so I ended up going back to the q-tips.

@KittyWhiskers   I want to send you a huge thanks, because that article, you posted, is absolutely the best one I have ever seen.  It has drawings, photos, pictures with arrows, and x-rays.   That is basically, the best way I learn, being a visual learner. (Either your search engines are better, or you just have a keen eye for things.)     

It does seem unusual to see FORLs in such a young cat.

I've had to take our older cat in several times over the last 7 years to get extractions due to this condition.  Each time I go in, I end up asking my vet if there has been any specific cause identified, and every time the answer is "not really". 

• At first, it was thought to be genetic, but that has been de-bunked.
• It's not only due to poor dental hygiene, though it can be a contributing factor.  Still, healthy cats with "good" teeth & gums do get them.
• It's not due to calcium levels, either high or low.
• It can happen out of the blue at almost any age, though it is usually seen in older animals.
• It seems to be a feline specific condition

In the last conversation I had with my vet, she mentioned that there has been a little progress in understanding the phenomenon.  She explained that it is a function of the immune system.  It's related to the function that stimulates the body to lose the baby teeth, but instead of "rejection" it triggers "resorption".  Much like with baby teeth, once the older teeth are gone, the trigger stops and the immune system goes back to normal (so it won't affect the jaws).

Unfortunately, this means that it is a long term condition.  You will most likely be making periodic trips for extractions over the years.  It's rather unpredictable.  You might go a few years without issues, then have a couple years that everything goes haywire, then a few years respite.... lather, rinse, repeat. 

Hopefully, they'll figure it out one of these days and future furmonsters will be able to get better treatment.

cat nap said:

@KittyWhiskers
  I want to send you a huge thanks, because that article, you posted, is absolutely the best one I have ever seen.  It has drawings, photos, pictures with arrows, and x-rays.  That is basically, the best way I learn, being a visual learner. (Either your search engines are better, or you just have a keen eye for things.)  :nod:    

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Hehe, me too. I get lost when I'm reading something that has a lot of scientific jargon going on. I just used good ole Google but I did read a few before I found one that was nice and easy to understand.
I haven't actually attempted to put my finger or anything into their mouth yet but the Q-tip sounds like a good idea.

furmonster mom , my vet did tell me that it was highly likely that Amber would get this again. It's such a shame that the only way to stop it at the moment is to extract the affected teeth.
Hopefully like you said they will soon figure out a way to prevent it.
I just wish it was easier for me to get into their mouths to keep check. My fault for not doing it when they were kittens.

KittyWhiskers said:

Hehe, me too. I get lost when I'm reading something that has a lot of scientific jargon going on. I just used good ole Google but I did read a few before I found one that was nice and easy to understand.
I haven't actually attempted to put my finger or anything into their mouth yet but the Q-tip sounds like a good idea.

@Furmonster Mom, my vet did tell me that it was highly likely that Amber would get this again. It's such a shame that the only way to stop it at the moment is to extract the affected teeth.
Hopefully like you said they will soon figure out a way to prevent it.
I just wish it was easier for me to get into their mouths to keep check. My fault for not doing it when they were kittens.

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Actually, I prefer 'scientific jargon'..    ...but yeah, I get lost, too, sometimes.. ..and prefer it when the writer's use photos, diagrams, and visuals.

(Maybe they are just too lazy for that...as am I ..who also uses Google...but after the 3rd article...I call it quits.)  That is why it is nice to have people like you, and others, here,...who do the work, for me. 

That way, I just get to read, only the good stuff. 

You make an excellent point, about beginning when they are kittens.   (though, as I recall, their teeth, at that age, are like tiny "shark teeth" or fine needles. Maybe, it would not be so fun, to go prodding around in there.) I still would advise it...just to get them used to it, as you said.

Furmonster Mom said:

 
It does seem unusual to see FORLs in such a young cat.

I've had to take our older cat in several times over the last 7 years to get extractions due to this condition.  Each time I go in, I end up asking my vet if there has been any specific cause identified, and every time the answer is "not really". 

• At first, it was thought to be genetic, but that has been de-bunked.
• It's not only due to poor dental hygiene, though it can be a contributing factor.  Still, healthy cats with "good" teeth & gums do get them.
• It's not due to calcium levels, either high or low.
• It can happen out of the blue at almost any age, though it is usually seen in older animals.
• It seems to be a feline specific condition

In the last conversation I had with my vet, she mentioned that there has been a little progress in understanding the phenomenon.  She explained that it is a function of the immune system.  It's related to the function that stimulates the body to lose the baby teeth, but instead of "rejection" it triggers "resorption".  Much like with baby teeth, once the older teeth are gone, the trigger stops and the immune system goes back to normal (so it won't affect the jaws).

Unfortunately, this means that it is a long term condition.  You will most likely be making periodic trips for extractions over the years.  It's rather unpredictable.  You might go a few years without issues, then have a couple years that everything goes haywire, then a few years respite.... lather, rinse, repeat. 

Hopefully, they'll figure it out one of these days and future furmonsters will be able to get better treatment.

Click to expand...

Totally, interesting about the "immune system response" and losing baby teeth.

I was thinking along the lines of it being some sort of protection, in that when the hole or cavity forms, the body is triggered to cause inflammation, at that particular site, so as to close up the hole, and not allow any further foreign bodies into it.  Covering the hole with the inflamed gums, preventing further entry.  But this would not explain, why resorption starts in the first place.  So your vet's explanation, makes more sense.