My Siberian cat does not get pregnant during mating

Hi!

I run a breeding Siberian cats (In Norway), but never got kittens. I have tried to mate my cat Sibirpoten Lucrezia 3 times (since she was 2.5 years to 3 years).

First time I saw no mating, but she had not been pregnant.

The second time I saw mating (new male). She was not pregnant this time either, and had imaginary pregnancy (so she tricked me into believing that she was pregnant).

Now I have bred her a third time (new male) and hope she is pregnant!

But my question to you is, have you experienced that their cat has not been pregnant?

What this may be due.
All male cats that are used have given kittens before

- Siri

Oh, it may happen, and there may be many causes for it.  I suspect its more common with purebreeds than with moggies.  Moggies usually get pregnant as soon you blink or happen to look away a second or at very most, two.        While it is not unheard of purebreds have difficulties, sometime even you cant use a queen or a stud - no results. 

Or, more probably, its the case of the proverb "hälsan tiger still" = "the health is silent". 

If a moggie dont get pregnant, its just fine, and you can spare yourself the cost of spaying.  Also an indoor only moggie which dont get into proper heat, doesnt sneak out to met a tom.  So you never notice them.

While for a breeder its a minor catastrophe....   

How many times did they mated?  One mating should be enough, but the wise one wants to see at least three...  Besides, they get usually friends after the first mating, even if they werent before, so it is seldom any big trouble with having them together one day longer.

Were they friendly with each others?  Did the male courted properly, they perhaps had even a true love story?  Or did he just took what he wanted?

Trying with different males is good, as you have done - sometimes its necessary yes.  But, retrying with the same male has the advantage, they know now each other, and she wont be as reluctant, or less stressed if you want.  Also, a remating is usually for free, covered by the stud fee in itself. (or??).

The female non stressed is pretty important, I think.  Its not scientific, but still I think so.  Anyway, we always tried the visiting wifes to our boys (my residents were Russian Blue studs) should have it nice and well while in our home in the mating room.   Also, so they would feel friends with us, the hosts.

Another tip may be to have a Feliway diffuser in the mating room, by the same reason.

Also, if they got friends, be sure she sees when he is taken away by owner, and leaves.  So she wont seek in wain,  sorrow and perhaps even get depressed.  (our stud did, till we learned this).  Wash off the mating room and the litter, so no smells are left.  By similiar, but opposite reason, do so also if they werent friends, and hostile also when they were done.

I understand you were there at the mating place.  Were the males visiting you, or she visited the male, as is most common?  With a unsecure female, it may be wise to get the stud to viist.  An experienced male will usually manage anyway.  Also an inexperienced male will manage, as long as he has time and is not stressed.

Vitamine E helps females with their fertility, so it is another tip to try next time.

I presume you were with her to your vet for a good medical check up?

Do you have a vet who is used to cooperate with breeders?

In our Breeders Forum, we had some year ago a good thread about modern possibilities to test for fertility.  There had been some promising development on this field since we were active, 10 years ago.

Try to find this thread!

But it is true, after several tries, you may discover its best to let her be a happy spayed.  Perhaps a companion to your next breeding queen, and an aunt to the kittens.

Please, you are welcome with further questions.

Good luck!  

ps.    Some may react 2,5-3 years is rather late for a first timer.  Its true, but sibirians mature later than many other breeds.  So as long she is healthy and full fit, it shouldnt be no problems by itself.

StefanZ said:

 
In our Breeders Forum, we had some year ago a good thread about modern possibilities to test for fertility.  There had been some promising development on this field since we were active, 10 years ago.
 

Click to expand...

I think the title was "Male Infertiility Testing".  But you can compare and perhaps get some ideas anyway, even if its a female you have.

I dont know why I didnt managed to copy the link, but you find the article down the side, in our  Serious Breeding Forum, shouldnt be no problems.

Thank you for your prompt reply! Many good tips you came with!

First mating she changed her mind all the time. But they were together for four days. It was pelstballer everywhere on the floor for them in the morning, so it could appear that they had mated. (We were visiting)

Other mating she did not like him. But when she came properly maturity it was proper romance between them! They were together for three days, and I saw two matings, but they had guaranteed mated several times! For she to arose constantly to the male cat. (We borrowed a room at her boyfriend's father, she has been there many times)

Third mating we were with him, and she was all too stressed out by not being at home. So when I took with me both home after 1 day away. First on day 6 in maturity accepted she to be mated. They mated 7 times in total, which I saw. This was January 12, so even early to say whether she to is pregnant or not.

Mating agreements in Norway are such that female cat owner pays all travel expenses for male cat. Staying females with male owner gets a few Norwegian kroner.

Unfortunately it is difficult to find Siberian cats males for lending to mating, so I've spent insanely much money just to lend male (travel expenses).

But the last male cat lives luckily one hour away from me, so no problem to borrow him again. But they will soon move, so is a bit stressful to get done her pregnancy before they move.


I have been 4 times veterinary and they do not know what the problem is. But do not feel that they are doing something to find it out either

My cat also received Royal Canin queen for 6 months now (was recommended to start it before mating)

I didnt get a cattery/Breead before she was 2 years old, so it took a long time before I found someone who would lend me tomcat. But I agree that she to is a bit old for her first litter. We have used Feliway on each mating


But as you've explained it, she should theoretically have been pregnant at the second mating. It was when she was most in love (and safe). Last time she was crabby and did not accept tomcat before she was almost out of maturity. He had to be a little strict with her, but she accepted it when the mating took place

Okay, from what I can understand the males aren't the problem. They have produced offspring before, and are Siberian breeding males.

First question; are you sure the fake pregnancy was a fake pregnancy? It's more than possible that she has been pregnant but that something went wrong and that the kittens she was wearing died and were absorbed by her body. It's possible you saw some green coming from her female part, which can indicate that this has happened, but it can also be that she cleaned it before you could see.

Lets assume she failed to get pregnant twice, and the fake pregnancy was really a fake pregnancy, then it's still not that weird.

Even from my breeding friends, who have a male cat at their own home, I hear that the female didn't get pregnant even after spending 5 days with the male and having heard them mating. It happens, just like with humans. You probably are just very unlucky. This can happen multiple times, traveling stress not helping the process either.

I will hope for you that this time you were successful and that she'll deliver beautiful siberian babies to you. But do know, if it still didn't work, it can also be a problem with your female cat. It's possible she's not able to breed. Do keep this in mind, breeding sounds fun, but it's hard and comes with lots of disappointment and costs a lot more than you'd expect.

Thank you for your reply! And thanks for factual and positive feedback.  I also hope some gorgeous Siberian kittens soon <3

It could be she lost children along the way, but have not seen anything to the green you describe. The sickest was that her water broke, day 70! We went then to the vet to see if something was stuck. But no kittens! Of course I have a bit of the feeling that she can not be pregnant. 

But that's life! I have 2 Siberian girls, but unfortunately she too young to breed yet (10 months). She must also get Champions title first (clause in her contract) To be A bredder is really a hobby! I have to get 2 or 3 litters before I go to zero on expenses I have used! So I do it the coziness of their part and because it's fun!

February 6 she shall take ultrasound! Just cross your fingers

Lusiu said:

! I have to get 2 or 3 litters before I go to zero on expenses I have used!

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I see you are very optimistic! 

To be safe, dont count on getting even.  Let it be a nice surprise, IF everything goes smoothly and you dont have extra costs ruining the budget.

Let  me take one example.  One of my boys wifes got 6 healthy kittens.  Which is unusual much for modern russian blue, 2-4 is the common.  So 36 thousands swedish kronos in cash is a minor fortune, as the stud fee is low in Sweden in the RB circles.  400 kronor mating fee + 400 for every living healthy kitten, here in total 2800 kr.   (In some other breeds it may be 6000 -8000 or one kitten).

OK, they got a fortune.  But they didnt sell the last two kittens.  Them two last kittens did agreed nicely with their mom, so they didnt bothered to seek after buyers - even if I send them a couple of proposals.

12 000 down straigh into the wash, just for the pleasure of keeping two of their sellable male kittens as family companion cats.  I do admire this, but it was none economical thinking!

As I know, I dont think they even bothered to let them be studs for a couple of matings, as is quite common in Sweden.  It was a very nice litter, several of them of good showing quality.

I wrote 2-3 coal because the sister of my cat has only gotten small coal. 2 litters (5 kittens total)

I shall assume all costs on cats I must have 6 coal! (or 23 cats)


Buy Siberian with all equipment cost me (including food and veterinary expenses) 1 year 20,000 Norwegian kroner (starterkitt)
Bought new cat 15,000 Norwegian kroner (including travel and veterinary).

In one year cost: (food, vet just to have 2 cats): 12,000 Norwegian kroner

Bought new updated equipment (chlorine furniture and diverse): 5000 Norwegian Kroner

= Invests 52,000 Norwegian kroner

Cattery expenses so far (when is not math over included): 20,000 Norwegian kroner
includes travel expenses for mating
Exhibits have been necessary
Bur decorations and various things of the exhibition
Costs related to have breed
Membership Expenditure to cat club


Siberian cost for 9000 Norwegian kroner. ((not breeding cats) Tomcat Owner shall have 3000 kr per kitten, max. 9000 kr.

Veterinary with kittens with id chip, vaccine and health check is between 1000-2000 kr per cat



Example by 3 kittens

I sell 3 kittens: 27,000 kr
Tomcat owner: - 9000 kr
Veterinary: - 6000 kr
= + 12.000 kr

Expenditure on bred: - 20,000 kr
Total costs of purchases of cats on diverse. : 52 000 kr

= - 60.000 NOK minus


Mainly so I reckon not looked closely at how much it costs to operate the cats a year. I reckon only expenditure bred. It is not quite right, because not all expenses come by. But I would have had the cats anyway, since I'm allergic and can withstand only Siberian cats

But I took all the expenses in the calculation to show how many cats I have to get to actually get 100% in zero (recouped my cats).

Of course this is not the purpose of breeding! And 60,000 kr is quite a lot!

So I look rather for expenses I use in connection with breeding

In this case I will still lose money 3 kittens.

It is for funn <3
 

How long ago did she go to the last male? Does she have any pregnancy signs? It's, to me, kind of a waste to get an ultrasound, but I understand why you do it.

I'm surpriced at how much a siberian cat goes for in Norway. I am a siberian breeder myself, and I haven't heard of those prices for just a pet before. Now I do not live in Norway, so it might be different there, but make sure you researched well.

Have you done all the tests properly? As a Siberian cat breeder myself, I do want our breed to remain as healthy and good as it is now. Make sure you did the HCM//PKD tests. Prefered by scan, as your girl is already 2.5 years old. I hope you at least did the DNA test before visinting any male. And if she's not pregnant now, please go for the scan as we do want our breed to stay as healthy as possible. Also the  same goes for the male cat, make sure he's scanned/tested properly before allowing him on your girl.

Same goes for the FiV FelV tests, did you test her before going to the male? Did you make sure the male is tested right before he jumped your cat? It's very important for your cat's and the male cat's health and future.

Also, as you are a starter, please refrain from selling your kittens for breeding (Saying this as I saw your mention of 'not breeding cats' in the pricelist). It's better to gain some trust and knowledge before going to such heights. In my country, for example, there's this person (Siberian cat breeder) who sells all her kittens for breeding and she doesn't care at all about what happens to them after (no restrictions what so ever). She just wants the money. Please don't end up like that and make sure you get to know the breed before selecting and selling for breeding to other breeders or individuals (I personally feel uncomfortable selling to breeders because it gives a lot of stress and worries from what I have heard, so I haven't done so yet - I want what's best for my babies).

Also, I saw your calculation. Please don't think it's like that and don't f ocus too much on costs and money. You can never predict what happens - you'll get many sidecosts that you didn't calculate yet. It should indeed be for fun (Happy you said that), but be as serious as you can when it comes to the breed standarts and health. Enjoy your kittens, and don't expect to make money. Even if you have a little saved after, let's say, 3 years, you will have to reinvest that in your cats to continue your cattery if you enjoy doing it.

That being said, if you have any questions/worries, feel free to ask. I would love to help another siberian cat breeder out. I know how it is to start fresh and how important help is. It's difficult to do it all on your own.

I get so happy when I hear other breeders also cares about the health of the breed!

All cats involved HCM tested by a specialist at ultrasound. This also applies FiV FeLV too. Mother of my cat is also HCM tested again at age 6. Siberians can not test for HCM by DNA test. (Bu Norwegian Forest Cat can).

I think you miss understand the price I entered. Cats that are sold to "private persone" not further breeding costs 9000 kr (The Norwegian market for Siberian, high demand). Cats sold to andt breeders located at 10.000-12.000 kr.

I have not sold cats who are not born yet! Of course I will not sell to anyone! They shall in good homes!

Lusiu said:

I get so happy when I hear other breeders also cares about the health of the breed!

All cats involved HCM tested by a specialist at ultrasound. This also applies FiV FeLV too. Mother of my cat is also HCM tested again at age 6. Siberians can not test for HCM by DNA test. (Bu Norwegian Forest Cat can).

I think you miss understand the price I entered. Cats that are sold to "private persone" not further breeding costs 9000 kr (The Norwegian market for Siberian, high demand). Cats sold to andt breeders located at 10.000-12.000 kr.

I have not sold cats who are not born yet! Of course I will not sell to anyone! They shall in good homes!

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Good to hear, sounds like the cats and kittens are in good hands with you Don't forget PKD though!

And let us know whether your cat is pregnant or not after the ultrasound! ^^