Torbie vs. Tortie?

Hello everyone.

I hope this is the right forum for my question.

OK. It's not really what my cat looks like, rather a general question. What's the difference between Torbies and Torties? Also, Calicos? And, how those things work genetically. I'm not planning on breeding or anything, just asking out of plain curiosity as I plan on studying biology and genetics. Thanks in advance.

-Marko

My cat Pipi is a torbie

My cat Cici (rip) is a tortie. Pipi is Cici's granddaughter. Pipi's mom was a tortie with the same pattern and color as CICI I thing pipi's mother mated with this guy Tom when they were strays.

Essentially if they are a mishmash of colors with no pattern they are a tortie. If they are a mishmash of colors with stripes they are a torbie(tabby + tortie)

Calico cats have big blocks of colors on their bodies but they distinct blocks of color.

As to why the cats are like that I am not sure. If I am wrong about my cat patterns someone can correct me [emoji]128512[/emoji]

A torbie has stripes on her dark patches. All torties/calicos will have stripes on their red patches because red only comes in tabby. But a regular tortie will have solid black patches (or gray if she's a dilute). Generally speaking, a calico has large distinct patches of color and a lot of white. Torties have their patches much smaller and less distinct.

So, if I'm getting it all right, Torbie is tabby all the way, Tortie is tabby only on red/orange parts and Calico is Tortie that has white and big, more prominent paches of red and black. Any genetics behind it?

So is my Cici not a tortie?? Guess I need an education too

hexiesfriend said:

image.jpg

• hexiesfriend
• Jan 7, 2015

So is my Cici not a tortie?? Guess I need an education too

Click to expand...

Your beautiful Cici is a dilute tortie :nod:

She is blue and cream which are the dilute colors of black and red - which makes her a dilute tortie

Thanks for the clarification I didn't know there was more than one type of tortie!

I will try and hopefully make this easier to understand

Tortie = black and red ( or blue and cream ) mixed together to create a mottled, speckled look

Tortie and White = same as above but with white

Calico = black and red in bigger distinct patches with lots of white

Torbie = a tortie with tabby pattern in the darker color


Check out this other thread below - it explains it with pictures

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/282107/calico-coloring

A tortie is a black and red cat mixed together, most usually a female. There is a possibility for it to be a male, but it's a genetic mistake and it often causes infertility among males (not always).

A torbie is also a black and red cat as mentioned above, but with the tabby pattern. 

Genetics:

I will explain the above mentioned colors. I didn't take tortie males into this, as it's a mistake and can't be predicted.

Dilute: The black and red are the basic colors of a cat. You can also get these in the diluted form which are Blue and Creme respectively. The delute is a recessive gene and will only show if both the parents carry the gene for diluted kittens. Eg: If you have a blue female and a red male who doesn't wear dilute, you won't get any diluted kittens from this combination.

Tabby: Tabby, known as Agouti among breeders, is a dominant gene. The opposite of Tabby is non-tabby also known as non-agouti, which is recessive. Both parents must wear the non-agouti gene for it to show on a kitten. Eg: if you have a non-agouti mother with a tabby father who wears the non-agouti gene, you have 50% chance on non-agouti kittens because both wear it, but the father wears the dominant tabby gene which will show if he passes it on.

Tortie:  Tortie basically is black and red or blue and creme showing on 1 single cat. In order to get this you need both red and black coming from the parents for it to mix on the female. 

Chromosomes and further explanation:  Females have  XX chormosomes, males have XY. Both parents will give in one and this will determine the sex of the kitten. As seen, the mother will always give the X, so the father is the one who gives either another X (girl kitten) or an Y (male kitten). The Y doesn't carry any red of black color, as it's the X that carries the base coloring. This is also why tortie males aren't usually happening.

Examples:

Red mother x Black father > This litter will have red males and tortie females. The mother is the only one giving color to the males, and thus they'll all be red. The father will give black to his daughters and the mother red, causing both colors to show, which causes the tortie.

Tortie mother x Red father > this will give either black or red males. The females will be either red or tortie. Mother carries both black and red and will pass either of those, father can only give red to his daughters.

Adding dilute: 

Blue mother x Red father (no dilute carrier) > This litter will have black males (blue being dilute and as the father doesn't carry dilute, the kitten can't show it but will be a carrier), and tortie non-dilute females (but they will carry as well)

Tortie dilute mother x Blue father > This litter will have either blue or creme males and tortie diluted females.

Adding tabby&non-agouti:

Torbie mother (carries non-agouti and dilute) x Blue non-agouti father < this litter will have black, blue, red, creme males which are either tabby or non-tabby. The females will be either black, blue, tortie, tortie dilute and tabby or non-tabby.

Hope this is anything clear xP Good luck! ^^

Biancavd said:

 
Tabby: Tabby, known as Agouti among breeders, is a dominant gene. The opposite of Tabby is non-tabby also known as non-agouti, which is recessive. Both parents must wear the non-agouti gene for it to show on a kitten. Eg: if you have a non-agouti mother with a tabby father who wears the non-agouti gene, you have 50% chance on non-agouti kittens because both wear it, but the father wears the dominant tabby gene which will show if he passes it on.

Click to expand...

How shall we interpret this non-agouti gene.  Is it sort of an inhibitor gene, alike the diluted gene, or is it simply, " all others genes?"   Ie, the agouti/tabby gene dominates over all other pattern genes, being the top of the ladder so to speak.

StefanZ said:

 
How shall we interpret this non-agouti gene.  Is it sort of an inhibitor gene, alike the diluted gene, or is it simply, " all others genes?"   Ie, the agouti/tabby gene dominates over all other pattern genes, being the top of the ladder so to speak.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure, but as far as for rodents and lagomorphes, non-agouti is consideret total opposit of agouti, but not like diluted, which is sort of changed version of non-diluted. Agouti is (always) dominant, and everything else is under it on the ladder, as you said. I would say every locus has it's own scheme.

Also, tnx Biancavd. It's nice to have it all summarized on one place.

•  

StefanZ said:

 
How shall we interpret this non-agouti gene.  Is it sort of an inhibitor gene, alike the diluted gene, or is it simply, " all others genes?"   Ie, the agouti/tabby gene dominates over all other pattern genes, being the top of the ladder so to speak.

Click to expand...

Not really sure how to explain this properly, as English isn't my native language. I'd like to see as dilute and agouti as different kind of genes as they aren't really affecting one-another. You either are agouti or not, and you either are diluted or not. There isn't really a thing in-between. Now, for the white gene for example, it's a whole other kind of gene that shows differently. It basically layers over the tabby/non-tabby and dilute/not-dilute and even the base coloring of black and red. Even if you have an entire white cat, he/she will have black or red underneath it, and will be tabby/non-tabby, dilute/not-dilute. You can't see it. Same goes for the Point gene. It's a recessive gene as well and in order to show it you need both parents to at least wear it. It also layers over the agouti/dilute (which still shows but only partly), but underneath the white.

White is something I'm not really known with well yet, but if the mom has an x amount of white, and the father does not, it gives a certain amount of white to their children. It can be none, or it can be as much as the mother has. But a complete white cat (so not just socks etc) is dominant, unlike the socks that can either show or not at all. This is how far I understand it now, but i'm still rather new with the genetics, so I need to read a little more about this to be certain. Correct me if I'm wrong please, people!

Then of course you have the genes for silver/golden, which is a whole other story again. These genes are dominant and you need one cat to have it to be able to get kittens with it.

And this is how far I got, looking at my breed this pretty much covers everything (Siberian cat / Neva Masquerade).

Biancavd said:

 
Tortie dilute mother x Blue father > This litter will have either blue or creme males and tortie diluted females.

Click to expand...

Also, forget to mention blue females are possible in this example too ^^; 

Tippi's mother was a Torbie but she didn't have any white on her coat that you could see , her siblings were ginger and white , so did the white come from her father who we was the local ginger and white Tom?

Most of my friends say Tippi is more Calico looking because their is a lot of white fur , but her strips make her a Torbie

Tippi's brothers and sisters


Tippi

Actually calicos are tri-color cats, meaning black, red, and white.

Here is a picture of Chrissy.  She was a long haired calico:


Next, here is a picture of Angel, followed by one of Angelina.  They were both Torties:


View media item 219302

I believe Tippi is a 'caliby', which is similar to a torbie, but instead of it being tortie-tabby, it's calico-tabby.

To determine the difference between calico and tortoiseshell-and-white, I look at the neck and belly. If the cat's body is primarily white with tricolor (black+red/blue+beige/etc./etc.) patches, then it is a calico.

If the body is primarily black (or brown/blue/etc.), with red (or beige/etc.) markings, and white markings on the face, neck, feet, it is most likely a tortie-and-white.

And calicos have larger patches of color, whereas torties have a more brindled pattern.

I'm glad I've finally learned the difference between tortie and torbie though!

Because I'd heard red cannot be solid (ghost tabby at best), but that would somehow mean all tortoiseshells were torbies, and I knew that couldn't be right.

Thank you for clearing that up Willowy and Biancavd!

Tippi is definitely a 'Caliby' Calico + Tabby. Calicos have a lot of white, Torties don't. My parents had a cat, Pickles, who looked very similar to her.