Loose Stools and Fainting

kh2b1

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I have/had a thread already going about this but I didn't get the resolution I'm looking for and I feel like I need a fresh start because an answer NEEDS to be found. I will never give up on my cat.

So my 16 y/o female cat who I am now finding myself lovingly referring to as "Scooter" (because she keeps scooting) has been having loose stools for well over a month. I am not getting anywhere with the vet and the specialist she wants me to go see is far away and with the weather, it may be a while before I can get in there.

Scooter has been an indoor only cat for 9 years. For the past few years she's been dealing on and off with constipation/hard stools. A few months ago she began to have sporadic loose stools which I attributed to the canned food as I've been trying to get her to eat more of it and less dry food.

Other than the loose stools she was fine until a month ago. Then she had an episode of fainting after vomiting, but recovered within seconds. She seemed fine afterwards (normal heart and respiratory rate) and was even playing. I made her appointment for a few days later. By then, it was clear that she was not acting quite right. She appeared to have vision problems and did not respond to my touch and petting the same as before. She was also displaying very mild signs of possible neurological problems (head twitching). She had two more fainting episodes that week and has not had any since.

A radiologist performed an abdominal and cardiac ultrasound which were inconclusive. They only showed thickening of the small intestine with the possibilty of IBD and/or cancer. It also showed a problem with one of the heart valves but the cardiologist and radiologist felt that medicine isn't necessary at this time.

The vet recommended a paste called Diarsanyl+ which didn't work. Fortiflora hasn't helped either. The vet prescribed Metronidazole 50 mg twice daily, but had me discontinue it after 5 doses because I mentioned that Scooter was acting strange with coordination issues. The vet mentioned that could be from the appetite stimulant which is also an antihistamine and can cause drowsiness.

Full blood tests were done and everything was in the normal range except the reticulocytes were a little high and there was blood in the urine. There are signs of kidney problems, but everything is still within normal. The BUN is on the higher side of normal. T4 was normal, but in the grey zone for older cats. The test for the pancreas was good too. Her blood pressure is also good.

The vet did give two B12 injections each two weeks apart. I can't be certain, but I think Scooter had a bad reaction from something in the injection. She seemed very lethargic and strange for 7-10 days after each injection. In the last week or two, she seems to be her old self again. She acts the way she did before the fainting episodes. She's not acting 100% like her old self, but she's definitely better, except for the loose stools. Whatever vision problems she may have had seem to be gone.


From my own personal opinion, I think the Metronidazole was helping. Approximately 12 hrs after her last dose (the 5th dose), she had a bowel movement that wasn't loose. It wasn't totally firm, but it actually had a shape to it. She made a few of those in the following 2-3 days or so. Since then, they've all been loose.

I'm pretty sure the appetite stimulant was causing a good amount of odd behavior like uncoordination. I reduced the amount myself and it seems to work better for her. She was prescribed 1 mg twice daily, but doing .66 mg once or twice a day works just as well for her appetite without causing excessive drowsiness and other side effects (urine retention, increased thirst, etc.).

From my research, it appears she could have IBD, cancer, or an intestinal parasite such as giardia. I'm not sure how the prior constipation problems fit into this, but it seems like they need to be considered. I feel like we should continue with the Metronidazole at either the same dosage or a lesser one, if possible.

Other things to note: I believe the loose stools started after she began eating more canned food. She has been eating about 97-99% canned food-only for the last month. She has been drinking more water in the last month and appears to be well hydrated. I'm concerned that maybe the canned food could be causing or worsening the loose stools. She's been eating Friskies and Fancy Feast poultry pate for the last month. Prior to that it was the Friskies chicken, beef, and seafood pate. I was told by the vet not to change her diet which is why I haven't tried another brand of food.

Does anyone have any opinions or advice on what to try or what could be wrong? I don't know if the fainting spells were related to the loose stools or not, but the change of behavior from that worries me. It's really weird because I made the first appointment due to the fainting issue and somehow everything has been about the loose stools. It's as if the loose stools became more prominent after the fainting spell. I can't help but wonder if she has a mini stroke.
 

stephenq

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@kh2b1

The thickening of the bowel, with diarrhea and vomiting is very concerning and in a previous thread you also said there was weight loss, and in one respect i am confused.  

On the surface (and as has been repeatedly mentioned in the prior thread on the same subject, http://www.thecatsite.com/t/289227/loose-stools-weight-loss-stumped-vet) if it isn't hyperthyroidism then it sounds like IBD.  My confusion is this: If a vet suspects serious IBD and/or small cell lymphoma (SCL)  there are really only two primary choices in front of you (besides all the supportive therapies like diet, B12, metronidazole, etc), and neither of these 2 choices have been mentioned by you as something your vet has discussed as far as I can tell.

#1: To biopsy or not to biopsy. This is the only way to get a definitive diagnosis of IBD or SCL.  Given your cat's history (possible heart issues) and given that the primary initial treatment of advanced IBD/SCL is identical  there are sound reasons not  to biopsy as it is major surgery. But it should be at least discussed so you understand the issues.

#2: To start Prednisilone or not to start it:   Pred is the #1 drug of choice for serious IBD.  And it works so well and so quickly  (you should have some weight gain in a week+ or so) that it is actually used diagnostically - in other words if your cat starts gaining weight your vet can start to make a presumptive diagnosis that can be backed up later by a follow up ultrasound that will show the bowel has improved.  The only thing it can't distinguish between is whether its IBD or SCL, but again, the treatment would be the same at least at the start.

Pred has some issues, and with heart disease requires careful administration and monitoring. Pred can also result in diabetes and a decreased immune system -- these are reasons to monitor a cat on pred, not a reason not to put a cat on Pred, unless perhaps there was a serious case of heart disease or other complicating conditions present.

I have a cat with severe IBD, possible SCL, kidney disease, mild cardiac disease and pancreatitis and Pred saved his life.  

The bottom line and as others have said, IBD presents in many different ways but when you have GI issues, bowel thickening and  weight loss, without an obvious tumor (large cell lymphoma as an example) or hyperthyroidism then IBD/SCL has to be a primary suspect and if you are going to skip the biopsy then a course of Pred to help diagnose the condition is standard vet practice

And another important therapy that your vet seems to have not mentioned but has been mentioned by others in the previous thread was switching to a novel protein diet like duck, venison or rabbit.  IBD is essentially a reaction to a protein that the cat has become reactive to and one of the first therapies is a novel protein, and while you have discussed adding wet food, there has been no discussion on your part in the previous thread that I can find that discusses your vet talking to you about novel protein diets.

Since this is at least the 2nd thread on the topic, and you are still looking for answers, i am going to put this out there in the following bold faced way :-)  I am completely 100% mystified why your vet, who already seems to suspect IBD and possibly SCL has not discussed with you prednisolone and/or a biopsy, and a novel protein diet, and particularly the Pred.  I work with a lot of vets and I think the vast majority of them, at least in my case, would have said something just like what my primary vet said to me which was "If you don't want to biopsy then lets try 2 weeks on Pred and see what happens."  This is standard acceptable veterinary practice.    Maybe we're missing something, sometimes issues get clouded, and none of us is there with your cat, but either way 1) you're still looking for answers and 2) the most standard therapies for IBD/SCL have not been discussed by you as something your vet has suggested.  I would be grateful if you would you please address these issues in your reply.  With thanks in advance!

Stephen
 
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misterwhiskers

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Could the vomiting and fainting and neuro issues be a result of a stroke?
 
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kh2b1

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Thank you StephenQ for your post, I found it very informative and helpful. :)

About the biopsy: A biopsy was mentioned about a month ago. The other vet at the clinic mentioned that they might do a biopsy during the ultrasound if they found something worth biopsying. It has not been mentioned since then.

Question: Is there a reason a biopsy can't be done under local anesthetic?

About the prednisolone:
This has been mentioned several times in the last month. At first, I was hesitant to use it because it caused life threatening complications in ALL of my previous cats that were put on it. I passed a message onto the vet nearly two weeks ago that I was now willing to try it. The next day, a tech called me saying the vet didn't feel comfortable using steroids in case there was an underlying condition :confused: and referred me to a specialist in internal medicine. I found that disturbing because it makes no sense. It sounds like the vet knows something that she isn't telling me. This isn't like her so I'm not sure what to make of this.

Special Diet: A change in diet has also been mentioned, but not suggested. Even if we did try it, I'm not sure what would be the best choice. The options are a little confusing.

The vet is ready to hand me off to the specialist. But I don't know what a specialist is going to do that she can't. I need more information before I'm ready to pay that kind of money. Plus, between the weather and my schedule, it may be a while before I can get in anyway. A lot of stuff needs to come together on that first.

Since starting the appetite stimulant, Scooter seems to be gaining a little weight or at least staying the same. She doesn't appear to be losing anymore weight.

Also, I just wanted to clarify that I felt the need to start a new thread because I'm feeling so confused and needed a fresh start. I need to understand what's going on in order to make the right decisions. I don't want to do something that might make things worse.
 

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Thank you StephenQ for your post, I found it very informative and helpful.
I'm glad.

About the biopsy: A biopsy was mentioned about a month ago. The other vet at the clinic mentioned that they might do a biopsy during the ultrasound if they found something worth biopsying. It has not been mentioned since then. That's odd, see below.

Question: Is there a reason a biopsy can't be done under local anesthetic?  Yes.  There are two types, 1) a full thickness biopsy that is major surgery, like a 6" incision, they take a piece of the intestine and usually sample other things while they're in there like lymph nodes etc.  It's the best type for accurate diagnosis but its $$$ and not easy on the cat, full sedation, etc. 2) is an endoscopic biopsy, usually if the ultra sound shows the problems higher up (closer to stomach) in the intestines as they are going in through the esophogus, its less invasive but also less accurate and still needs 100% sedation. What you may be thinking of, a needle biopsy (aspirate) is almost never a practical option.  This is why I thought it odd they would mention doing the biopsy during an ultrasound which is not done in a operating suite and doesn't invole sedation.

About the prednisolone: This has been mentioned several times in the last month. At first, I was hesitant to use it because it caused life threatening complications in ALL of my previous cats that were put on it. I passed a message onto the vet nearly two weeks ago that I was now willing to try it. The next day, a tech called me saying the vet didn't feel comfortable using steroids in case there was an underlying condition
and referred me to a specialist in internal medicine. I found that disturbing because it makes no sense. It sounds like the vet knows something that she isn't telling me. This isn't like her so I'm not sure what to make of this.  One doesn't (or shouldn't) avoid pred because there might be an underlying condition as in "in case there was" but if a vet suspected an underlying condition that that could be a reason.  But if your cat had a heart condition like cardiomyopathy as an example that was serious enough to avoid pred then you should have been told this.  I'm sorry your previous cats had bad reactions to Pred, cats rarely do especially in the short term at normal doses like 5mg to 10mg per day.

Special Diet: A change in diet has also been mentioned, but not suggested. Even if we did try it, I'm not sure what would be the best choice. The options are a little confusing. Again the fact they haven't suggested this is odd.  My vet said that when OTC novel protein diets were DNA tested they found DNA from standard animals like chicken etc mixed in, and that in her opinion for something like IBD (as opposed to maybe a food allergy that causes a skin problem) the only acceptable novel protein diets are prescription based because their cooking vats are never shared with conventional animals.  Hills and Royal Canin both sell scrip diets.  It's not complicated, pick a protein like rabbit, put the cat on it and see how they do.

The vet is ready to hand me off to the specialist. But I don't know what a specialist is going to do that she can't. I need more information before I'm ready to pay that kind of money. Plus, between the weather and my schedule, it may be a while before I can get in anyway. A lot of stuff needs to come together on that first.  Do as you need to, but I don't know how long your cat can wait.  The first thing I would do if it was me, is get a consult (phone or in person) with your primary vet, reference the vet tech's concern about red, ask if there are specific conditions that prevent the vet from prescribing this, discuss red and diet changes in depth, and then see if you need a consult with an Internal Med specialist.

Since starting the appetite stimulant, Scooter seems to be gaining a little weight or at least staying the same. She doesn't appear to be losing anymore weight.  That's good but appetite stimulants get at the symptoms, not the cause.  Although if your cat isn't loosing weight that is a good sign, normaly a bad case of IBD and your cat would still loose weight despite eating more.

Also, I just wanted to clarify that I felt the need to start a new thread because I'm feeling so confused and needed a fresh start. I need to understand what's going on in order to make the right decisions. I don't want to do something that might make things worse. I'm not objecting to you starting a new thread.
My comments above.  Based on what you've said, and the lack of clarity with your vet, i'd be looking from a 2nd opinion even if it was another primary care vet.  We can help you raise questions, think about issues, but in the end you need a professional you can trust who can guide you towards the best decisions for you and your cat.

What's bothering me so much, again based on what you've described, is that absent a diagnosed underlying condition (for which you would be informed by your vet) starting a course of pred to help diagnose the issue is almost a no-brainer provided you were willing to forgo the biopsy (you cant biopsy while on pred) even if it was for just a couple of weeks to see if there was improvement, weight gain and a better ultrasound. But again I'm not there, I haven't heard your vet. 

Can you explain a) how many of your cats were previously put on pred, b) for what conditions, c) at what dosages and d) what were the negative results?
 

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I have no good advice other than... in October out of no place my cat got loose stools. It was severe. I came here and saw tons of other threads on the subject. I actually suspect some sort of poisoning went on that we just don't know about yet. My cat NEVER had had diarrhea but out of no place he was pretty bad.  After a bout a month of bad stools... and the Metronidazole working when he was on it, I took him off and we were right back to loose stools. I can't remember how it came up but I tried an enzyme / pro biotic.    I picked it up the pet store but you can get it on amazon. And that worked amazingly. Normal stools if he gets this.  If you look a the reviews they all talk about the loose stools.

My cat is already on Prednisilone for Asthma so in theory, it should have stopped the problem from developing but it didn't.

I do not know about the fainting. But I am going to guess that it is felt that those happened as a result of the extreme stomach upset. The first night my cat was a super mess and threw up bad, but after about a day he was ok. But with loose stools.

My crazy theory on this has to do with lack of enzymes. When the cat isn't getting them, they aren't getting nutrients from their food.  Also their intestinal tract gets inflamed.  I think that if your cat is malnourished that could explain the crazy lack of coordination and also the fainting.  I don't think the Flora FLora has enzymes just probiotic. And also, my cat went from dry food in march to all wet food.  Think perhaps that could have caused the problem.

We tested my cat for all kinds of intestinal parasites even the more exotic ones. Nothing. My vet wanted to put my cat out and run every test under the son but I decided against it because I just didn't think she knew what she was doing and that would be tramatic for the cat. So I am glad that he seems pretty well recovered as long as he gets this enzyme / probiotic daily.  Oh also my cat lost 3 lbs but since going on the enzymes he has gained back 1.5.

Oh and also, I switched him to more dry food. I think he was possibly getting too much protien. Now he gets two cans of wet food (small) and the rest dry.
 
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kh2b1

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After discussing things with my family, we don't feel comfortable putting Scooter under anesthesia at this time due to her age. We'd like to try other things first. If they don't work out, then maybe we'll go for the biopsy. I'm not sure if that's a selfish decision or not. Please feel free to comment on that.

I would like to try prednisolone but it worries me. Scooter has been diagnosed with a heart problem involving one of the valves. I'm not exactly sure about the severity of it or what exactly it is. The vet was vague and I need to ask more about that. I would assume that the problem is heart valve regurgitation, stenosis, or dysplasia. I would only trust a cardiologist to tell me whether prednisolone is safe. Unfortunately, I can't afford to see a cardiologist just for that answer. Perhaps my vet could do a phone consult with the cardiologist that looked at the ultrasound. For those that might not be aware, corticosteroids (like prednisolone) can possibly cause CHF in cats, especially if a heart condition is already present.

This is exactly what the tech said the vet said about steroids (word for word): "if you start the corticosteroids and there's a different underlying problem then the steroids may not be the best option."
I'm not sure what the vet is getting at.

If we tried the special diet, I'm not sure which prescription food would be the best. My vet likes Purina EN, but is that better than Hill's z/d? None of these diets really look suitable for a cat with IBD, but I'm certainly no expert. I would think that the ingredients and fat content would make a difference.
I would be interested in trying a homemade diet. I would like to try raw, but I would need to look at a recipe with all the instructions first. My main concern with any diet is going to be the price, unfortunately.

Here's the big question: If I'm not willing to put Scooter under anesthesia at this time, is there any point in seeing an internal medicine specialist? What are they going to do that a regular primary vet can't do?
 

stephenq

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@kh2b1

Hi and my responses kind of in reverse order to your post:

Food:  the best food is the one that works. Seriously, no one food, nor any one medical treatment is best for every patient.  This is true with every single medical treatment out there.  You go with what you and your vet think is the best plan A, then if that doesn't work or stops working you go to plan B, then C and D.  You can't objectively pick the best treatment in advance, that's why medicine is part art.

Z/D is a hydrolyzed protein diet, the proteins are smashed being recognition and hopefully the cat doesn't react to it, except for those that get terrible diarrhea like mine did.  But it was a good try and if it had worked then it would have been great.  As to the other novel protein diets, please see my comments in the previous post.

I understand your decision not to want to put your cat under anesthesia and it sounds like a very reasonable decision.  The one thing that doesn't work however, an option that becomes lost to you is trying to biopsy later if your cat is on Pred. The vets will not biopsy your cat in that situation as the biopsy will be meaningless.  The only option at that point is to take your cat off the pred for a few weeks, allowing the IBD/SCL to possibly relapse and then do the biopsy and who would want to do that?   So to be clear, its biopsy then pred or its pred and no biopsy.

I agree you need more info regarding your cats heart issue before starting pred.  I also agree that your vet should be able to call the cardiologist who did the ultrasound and get an opinion.  I know my vet would do this.  What the tech told you was a conditional and hypothetical statement.   It would literally be no different than saying "If you crossed the road while a car was approaching fast and close you could be hit."  Well great, is the car approaching?   You need a vet's medical opinion, not a conditional statement by a tech.

On the question of seeing an internal med specialist:  Here's what I think: I've read your other threads.  You've indicated some distrust regarding your vet.  They have clearly made suggestions (prednisolone, diet) etc that you are not confident enough in to pursue, you've had bad experiences with pred in the past although you haven't said exactly what those were (i asked in the previous post), so it seems to me you need a fresh pair of eyes on this.  You need a vet you can trust.  The risk at the moment is that your cat is being under treated or possibly not properly diagnosed.
 
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kh2b1

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Thanks again for the help StephenQ.

At this point I think I'm going to try a special diet and go from there. If it doesn't work, I'll see how Scooter is feeling and decide whether to do the biopsy or try prednisolone. The only concern I have with this is what if it becomes irreversibly too late to do a biopsy? She could go drastically downhill while changing her diet making it dangerous to do the biopsy. I'm just worried that she might die if we do it now. It's definitely something that has to be considered. But me and the family just don't feel comfortable with anesthesia right now.

I'm considering getting a second opinion from my previous vet. I called the vet's office Monday morning and told the receptionist why I needed to speak to the vet. As of this post (very late Monday night), I haven't heard anything back. I'll probably call the previous vet Tuesday morning to see if they can do a 5-10 min. phone consult to see if they think they can even treat Scooter. I hope they agree to talk because I don't want to waste more time by making an appointment then finding out they don't want to treat her there. If they refuse to treat her, I'll be left with no choice but to see a specialist. At $200 for just a consult, I'm very depressed.

As to my trust issues with this vet, it's not that I distrust her, but something seems off here. I've known her for 10 years and her behavior has been odd recently. I won't go into detail, but based on what I've heard and observed in the last month, it feels like the vet screwed up somewhere and doesn't want me to find out. Or, I also wonder if she's hiding the full results of the ultrasound from me to protect me from something. Or, she could be overworked. Then again, I could be over thinking things.
I'm inclined to think she screwed up with the sub-q fluids. I didn't know until it was too late, but she gave my then 7 lb. Scooter 150 ml of fluids despite the fact that she wasn't clinically dehydrated. Scooter seemed "off" during the days following this, but that could be due to a bad reaction from the B12 injection (I think it caused body ache and/or lethargy). I saw no signs of CHF from the fluids.
What's odd is that the vet hasn't prescribed fluids since then. She usually prescribes fluids for everything like it's a miracle cure. I got the impression during the heart ultrasound that the radiologist was "questioning" the vet about what she had seen and diagnosed prior to this and how she made that diagnosis. It just came across as suspicious to me.

However, I have a general distrust of all veterinarians due to numerous bad experiences. The worst is when I took the below mentioned Cat #2 to a new vet for an emergency just days prior to the cat's euthanasia. To make a long story short, the vet refused to do an x-ray then later falsified the records stating that I refused to do the x-ray. He did that to cover up his mistakes. Had I carried a tape recorder to that last visit, I would have proof that I could've used against him. That's why I now always try to record vet visits.



In reference to the cats that had problems with prednisolone, I can only provide information for three of them off the top of my head. Their files are stored away and are too complicated to access at this time.

Cat #1: 13 y/o with Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy, CRF (not sure which stage), and supposedly had Chylothorax (fluid was not tested). I don't recall why he was put on prednisolone (this was over 10 years ago), but his health went drastically downhill within 7-14 days of taking it. I didn't recognize that at the time, only much later after it was too late. He died shortly after this, perhaps within three weeks of taking it. There's no proof, but I am nearly 100% certain that if he hadn't been put on prednisolone, he could have and would have lived six months or possibly up to a year. He died from fluid buildup (from Chylothorax) on the way to the vet's. The fluid wasn't that bad until he started prednisolone. He probably shouldn't have been on it to begin with.

Cat #2: 11 y/o with CRF, kidney stone, and history of CaOx stones. Unbeknown to me, he had been diagnosed with mitral valve regurgitation when he was about 4. Apparently, the two vet's treating him forgot about it. They also failed to realize (I didn't know either) that he had "big kidney, little kidney syndrome" and therefore only had one working kidney - the one affected by the kidney stone (I didn't know about this until it was too late).
He was put on prednisolone to treat intense facial itching of unknown origins. He was 10 lbs. and he was put on 5 mg twice daily for 5 days (I think), then 5 mg every other day (I think). Unbeknown to both me and the vet, he was already showing signs of CHF caused by sub-q fluids. I reported the signs to the vet and she didn't recognize them and neither did I (I know better now). So the prednisolone caused him to go into further CHF and ARF at the same time. His potassium, BUN, and creatinine were extremely high. I forget what they saw on the ultrasound but I know it was pretty bad. The internal medicine specialist (not the one I'm being referred to now) recommended euthanasia and I agreed.

Cat #3: This cat belonged to my uncle. He remembers the cat being put on a medication for itching (this was about 13 years ago) and the medication was something humans use. Looking through the brief information I have on that cat, it looks like it was put on a corticosteroid. Within 2-4 weeks, the cat went missing. When they found it still alive but limp in a ditch, they immediately rushed it to their vet. There were no signs the cat was hit by a car, and the only diagnosis the vet could come up with was a stroke. After the cat recovered, it was like a totally different cat. It had to relearn basic things like how to jump and use the litter box.

There is definitely a pattern and timeline. I just wish I could dig out the files to provide more information for you. I'll see what I can do but make no promises.
 

stephenq

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Hi @kh2b1
Thanks for the detailed reply including the info on the former cats on Pred.

As to your concern that your cat will go downhill drastically and you will loose the option for a biopsy (or other therapies) this is unlikely unless you ignore your cats symptoms. If your cat is loosing weight and you can't arrest the loss fairly soon (say roughly after loosing 20% of prior normal body weight or less, in my opinion) if you don't start a new therapy at this point or soon or do a biopsy then you have moved into a category of ignoring or missing your cat's symptoms and your fear of being too late becomes more real. But IBD/SCL (if that's what it is) is progressive. The cat will decline over time, NOT overnight. If you monitor and weigh your cat regularly you should have multiple opportunities to intervene.

The easiest intervention is prednisilone. Sadly you have had a poor history with this drug which understandably makes it difficult for you to get behind it. And on top of that you have an unclear and possibly incomplete clinical picture as to its safety in this particular cat. Which brings me to topic #3.

Trust issues:
1- no vet imo, and none of the many I know and work with would withhold results from you as you imply the one may have done. It's illogical and not sensible. Why should they intentionally hurt your animal and deceive you? It makes no sense. It opens them up to needless criticism (needless if they had given you the true results).
2- This is going to be a tough one so buckle your seatbelt :-). you say that you tape record as many interactions with your vet as possible. Let's assume you disclose the recording. Have you considered how difficult it might be, maybe impossible for a vet to give your cat proper care knowing that everything they say is being recorded? I can't imagine it. Honestly, if it was me (the vet) and I knew you were going to record our appointments I'd terminate our relationship immediately. In fact regardless of the service I provide as a professional in life (except perhaps as a lawyer in a deposition) if my client recorded me I'd fire them. Note taking is fine. Recording has crossed a line. If they don't know you are doing this then that's deceitful at best.

The entire doctor/patient/client relationship and the quality of the care that follows is dependent on trust. You stated that you distrust all vets. If that is really true then imo you cannot get proper vet care for your animals if for no other reason than you cannot evaluate their advice. And since you are not a vet, then puts you in a bad position.

I believe in my heart that if you cannot find a vet that you can trust then your cat is unlikely to get proper care, not because the vet is bad per se, but because you can't trust them.

There is no magic bullet that will allow you to discern whether what the vet tells you is objectively correct or not. And that is because there is no such thing in medicine. No. Such. Thing. Yes there are better decisions and worse decisions but I believe most good people get most things right most of the time. No one gets it right 100% of the time. No one. I LOVE my vets. But they like I am imperfect. And what I have learned and what I have said before and will repeat here is that even when they get it right, not all patients will respond the way we want. You go with plan A and hope. If that doesn't work you go to plan B. Eventually, all plans with all patients fail, and they, just like all of us, will die. But nothing works without trust.

The best I can offer is to suggest you find someone who YOU personally trust and you have them go with you to each vet appointment and then you listen to how they evaluate what the vet says.

And imo ditch the recorder. Immediately.

You're a good person with a good heart who loves your animals and I wish you all the best.
 

AbbysMom

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StephenQ has given you excellent advice and you should really consider his suggestions.

All I would like to emphasize is that if you don't trust your vet, time to try a another vet. I had only been to one vet in my adult life. She is a feline-only vet and years ago when my cat was having some issues that weren't getting resolved I decided to try another vet. What I learned is that my vet is VERY good and to trust her. It was worth a visit to a bad vet to learn how good my vet is.

I also want to totally agree with StephenQ about ditching the recorder. If I were a vet I would be extremely guarded around you and possibly drop you as a patient. It's during candid spur of the moment conversations with my vet when she isn't being as guarded that I really learn some useful nuggets of information. You are putting up a wall with that recorder and they are putting up a wall in return.
 
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