Need help asap, please

marc_5947

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Please know that I am going to write a book here, but I do not know where else to turn and I honestly need help, asap. If I placed this in the wrong section, please accept my apologies and move it at your discretion.

I do not know where to start, only that I have two cats and recently moved from Pennsylvania to Florida. I am married, and my wife has not moved here yet. She is finishing out her job up north and will be moving down here with me in about 11 days from now. She is currently staying with her parents up north.

I used to be a member here years ago, but have changed my email( years ago) and I even forget what my screen name was for this site.

I have two cats, and I'm going to call them "Cat1" and "Cat2".

- Cat1 is a male and I found him on the streets in the summer of 2000. He was about 5 months old when I found him.

- Cat2 is a female and I found her at a local animal store as a 6 week old kitten and brought her home in the summer of 2002.

Both have been neutered as kittens. They've had their annual checkups/shots, and have been strictly indoor cats ever since.

I drove from PA to FL myself, and I could not handle watching the cats and driving at the same time, so my wife and I paid to have the cats transported to FL by a company called RoyalPaws <-- very nice people!

Cat history:

* Cat1 is your normal male cat. He is playful at times, but could really be less-bothered. He is loveable when he wants to be, but just likes to lay in the sun and be a normal, sleep-all-day cat. Medical history is good, with no known issues.

* Cat2 (female) on the other hand, is about 19lbs, and was diagnosed as being a diabetic this past September (2014). She is very loveably though! We took her the Vet prior to moving and the Dr put her on Glipizide 5mg pills. At first, he wanted her to have 2 pills per day (1 @ morning, 1 @ night). We took her back for another blood test a few weeks later, and he said that her levels were still high, so he wanted her to UP the dosage to 1½ pills in the AM and 1½ in the PM.  Since taking the medicine, we noticed that it makes her back legs very weak, and she really does not move much since taking them. She also has been having an issue making it to/from the litter box. It hurts me inside to see her walk. I literally have to look away sometimes because I begin to lose my composure.

Generally speaking, my wife is NOT a cat (or animal) person. She only puts up with them because of me. For me, I love them will all my heart and soul. Although, I'm an animal person...always have been since I could first remember. I make my donations every time I'm at the pet sore. Maybe most of that money is going into some politicians pocket, but it makes me feel good to donate and hope that it's actually going to a good and proper cause.

Food:

I leave dry food out during the night hours to prevent them from throwing-up clear liquids in the early AM hours. The dry food I'm currently using is for sensitive systems, and says that it's "highly digestible". They need something like that since they both puke up almost anything  else.

As for wet food, I give that to them twice per day, but in small to medium portions. I also crush the medicine and put it in the wet food for Cat2. It's the only way to get the meds into her system. Pill Pods -of any flavor- do not work anymore. She chews and spits them right out.

Since moving here, I knew that the cats would have needed time to adjust to the new house. The previous owner had a dog, so I'm sure the odors are still lingering. Although, I've tried to clean the best I could. Once the wife arrives (in 11 more days), we want to repaint the whole inside, then have new carpets installed throughout the house. This house is MUCH larger than our old one!! We now have a somewhat large screened-in (Lenai) room out back with a pool, and the cats are free to roam around out there while soaking up as much sun as they like.

My issue(s):

Since being here, I knew that I was goiung to have "litter box" problems, but they seem to be getting worse. I put three litter boxes throughout the house with new scoopable litter in them. I use The World's Best Cat Litter, which is the same litter I've used for years. I clean them every day, and try to keep up to the best of my ability. When they first arrived here in early December, they both used the cat boxes normally. Then over the next week or so, the male cat (Cat1) has been pooping in almost every room he can find. He does not use the cat boxes anymore for pooping. Only peeing. I've tried to relocate the boxes to different locations, but he sometimes goes right next to the box, as if he's angry at me. He knows what he does too, because he immediately runs away from me once he's finished, or when I walk near him.

Cat2 goes inside of her box, but needed a shallower-sided box to walk into because of her weakened back legs. She walks in, but pee's outside of it, leaving me a mess to clean up from BOTH cats, about 3-5 times per day. I've tried to tone-down her medicine to see if her back legs could begin to strengthen a bit, and they have, but then she goes right back into drinking water like crazy and peeing more.

Just this morning around 4:30am, I heard them meowing, as if they were hungry, and I came downstairs to see a wet floor, right next to the litter box. Actually, the bottom of the litter box was wet with pee because it seeped underneath. As I'm cleaning the mess, Cat2 went inside of the box and did the same exact thing, AGAIN! As I was cleaning the SECOND mess, Cat1 pooped on the floor, which was about 6 ft. away from me. I didn't notice because I was in the process of disinfecting the floor.

My wife and I have spent in excess of 10k to get our things moved here. To say that "money is tight" right now is an understatement. I seriously cannot afford to keep taking my cats to the Vet, having them charge $175+ per cat, per visit, to run their tests, then to just tell me to relocate the litter boxes and try different food. Our savings accounts have dwindled since/from moving here, and taking the cats to the local vet will have to be for a dire emergency only.

I apologize for rambling on, but I am at wits-end right now and cannot keep cleaning up after my cats day in and day out. Either they wake me up during the early AM hours by pooping or throwing up (yes, even TODAY!), or I have to walk like I'm in a minefield once I do wake up, or come home from shopping.

My wife cannot take this type of behavior, and even though I have a much higher tolerance level, I too am starting to wear-out. I can not stand the thought of being without them in my life, and I am even tearing up as I'm coming down to the end of my story here because I can't afford to take them to specialists to have a precise diagnosis. But something needs to be done...fast!

Please understand that I am writing to ask for help because I do not know what to do or where to turn. I'll respond to questions as quickly as possible. I could honestly use some good and experienced advice.

Thank you!
 
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hexiesfriend

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With regard to your diabetic cat,mine had the same issues when she got about 16 years old. I tried to find a larger little box and actually settled on an infant swimming pool. I cut the front rim down and I filled with littler and put in the garage. That worked for awhile. Then it stopped working and I had to resort to using human XL incontinece pads. I put them outside of the box and my cat started using them immediately without going to the litter box to pee, the other cats never used them. She would pee on them and used her paw to fold it over when done. She needed to xl pads because her aim wasn't that good. I think part of it was mine didn't want to get her feet wet in the litter box from the excess urine in the box when peeing. If your cats back legs are weak and this is a new thing it may be her insulin levels are off you may want to check that. As for your male cat I think the smell of the dog is having him poop everywhere. You may need to shampoo the carpets with an enzyme cleaner along with the walls. In the past I have had luck putting out bowls of food where they have previously peed or pooped and that has solved the problem. It may look dumb at first having food all over the house but that's worked for me. You may want to also make sure the litter boxes you have are in very private areas. I think your cats are just trying to adjust right now hopefully fully before your wife travels down. This isn't unusual behavior for your male cat. It's a new home and he's marking it probably because he smells the dog. It is also not unusual behavior for you diabetic cat. Hopefully you will get more and better advice than mine from other members but just know this behavior is not that unusual and I think there are solutions that can help.
 

LTS3

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I highly recommend that you check out FelineDiabetes.com for treatment options and tips for your diabetic cat. Glipizide is not a recommended treatment for diabetes as it can cause further pancrease damage. Insulin is a much better choice. The weak hind legs is a sign of diabetic neuropathy which can be treated with methyl B12 (methylcobalamin). Dry food isn't good for a diabetic cat. A low carb canned food diet is best. Think of dry food being greasy fast food for Human diabetics and low carb canned food as healthy things like veggies and fruit and well planned diabetic meals.

Once the diabetic cat's blood glucose levels are in a more normal range, you should see improvement in litter box habits as well as in her overall health. Consider getting a second vet opinion for the diabetic cat. Some vets just aren't familiar with the current methods to treat diabetes.
 
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marc5947

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Thank you for the advice and I will definitely try the food placement trick. I can get away with certain things now because she (wife) is not here :)

I might also go to the store and buy some of those XL pads like you've mentioned. A larger litter box could be a solution too, but the issue with her peeing is due mostly to her aim and I think those pads are a pretty good idea.

Once my wife gets here, I will take her to the vet and have her tested. I'd also like to get another opinion on that medicine too. Maybe injected insulin is a better way to go...??

I'm not going to bother with shampooing the rugs at the moment because we're going to be replacing them within a month or two, after the whole interior gets a fresh repaint. I know that the walls should be cleaned prior to painting, and I'll do the best I can. Besides, they'll need a good cleaning to help the new paint adhere better.

I thank you for your input/suggestions!
 

marc5947

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I highly recommend that you check out FelineDiabetes.com for treatment options and tips for your diabetic cat. Glipizide is not a recommended treatment for diabetes as it can cause further pancrease damage. Insulin is a much better choice. The weak hind legs is a sign of diabetic neuropathy which can be treated with methyl B12 (methylcobalamin). Dry food isn't good for a diabetic cat. A low carb canned food diet is best. Think of dry food being greasy fast food for Human diabetics and low carb canned food as healthy things like veggies and fruit and well planned diabetic meals.

Once the diabetic cat's blood glucose levels are in a more normal range, you should see improvement in litter box habits as well as in her overall health. Consider getting a second vet opinion for the diabetic cat. Some vets just aren't familiar with the current methods to treat diabetes.
Yeah, that option sounds much better to me than using glipizide. I will also start to wean them off of dry food. Never thought of the greasy, fast food part of it...
 

marc5947

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Any idea what low carb canned food I should use?

Not to sound funny, but I'm a male and I honestly do not read labels. It's in my genes...

The we food I'm currently using for them is Fancy Feast, the small cans.

Also, I thank everyone for their comments so far!! I'm starting to feel a bit better about this situation, knowing that I'm not experiencing it myself.
 

hexiesfriend

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I have never heard of pills for diabetes in cats injections of insulin are much easier sorry didn't catch that. Be careful about waiting on the diabetes, weak legs are a sign she is not controlled but it is the least of the concern as there are many many other complications. If she starts to lose any weight, that's is not from the stress of the move, that is her diabetes becoming a BIG problem. and it is out of Control. Because the vet visit has to be delayed I'd buy the ketone sticks at the drug store usually at the pharmacy and test her urine when she goes. It will always come out positive for ketones, whether she is controlled or not, but if the stick shows it extremely extremely high thats an indication the visit can no longer wait. Some actually do blood glucose readings on their own but I was never able to get any blood from my kitty to test.
 

marc5947

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I have never heard of pills for diabetes in cats injections of insulin are much easier sorry didn't catch that. Be careful about waiting on the diabetes, weak legs are a sign she is not controlled but it is the least of the concern as there are many many other complications. If she starts to lose any weight, that's is not from the stress of the move, that is her diabetes becoming a BIG problem. and it is out of Control. Because the vet visit has to be delayed I'd buy the ketone sticks at the drug store usually at the pharmacy and test her urine when she goes. It will always come out positive for ketones, whether she is controlled or not, but if the stick shows it extremely extremely high thats an indication the visit can no longer wait. Some actually do blood glucose readings on their own but I was never able to get any blood from my kitty to test.
I am actually going to the pet store today to get some low carb wet food and to buy a small dog carrier. She needs one for a dog because of her size.

On my way home from the pet store, I'm stopping by my local Vet and I'm making an appointment. I'm not going to wait for my wife to arrive in a week or so.

My cat isn't losing any weight, so far. She eats like she's fighting over the only meal left on the planet! When feeding both of them, I have to separate the two bowls by about 5 ft. (with me sitting in the middle) because she'll scarf her food down, then go and push him out of the way and eat his food. THEN beg for more!! ...not joking either!

...Wait until I start to wean her off of dry food. She's gonna be PO'd at me, & she's a very *vocal* cat! So much so, that I can already foresee many of sleepless mornings coming up...
 

hexiesfriend

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Just know the constant hunger could also be coming from the diabetes as well, hopefully that will improve for you!!!
 

snugglecat

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I personally don't have any experience with a diabetic cat but I had a friend who fed her diabetic cat nothing but Fancy Feast, no dry food and she was able to get it under control. At one point the cat didn't even need insulin anymore.

Hope things start getting better for you and your kitties.
 

LTS3

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Any idea what low carb canned food I should use?

Not to sound funny, but I'm a male and I honestly do not read labels. It's in my genes...

The we food I'm currently using for them is Fancy Feast, the small cans.

Also, I thank everyone for their comments so far!! I'm starting to feel a bit better about this situation, knowing that I'm not experiencing it myself.
Fancy Feast is good
Here are the low carb ones: http://www.felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm There are many other brands you can feed. They just need to be under 10% carbs. Use this chart: http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf Your non-diabetic can also eat these sames foods. It makes feeding two cat much simplier
Treats should also be low carb. Most big name treats (Pounce, etc) are too high in carbs due to the grains and starches used. 100% meat or fish treats are best. These are typically freeze dried. Any pet stores will have them. Halo Liv-A-Littles and Whole Life are two brands.

Here's some additional inf on diet and diabetes: http://catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes And how to help an overweight cat to lose weight: http://catinfo.org/?link=felineobesity

The message board at FelineDiabetes.com is a great place for more help
The members there can help you with the diabetic cat's litter box issues, the weak hind legs, diet, insulin options, and many more things.
 
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angels mommy

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Hi marc, & welcome back to TCS!  Sorry it's under these conditions. I don't have any experience w/ feline diabetes, but it sounds like you are getting some great advice from some fellow members here.

I am also so glad to hear that you are not waiting to take your baby girl to the vet. You don't want her to get worse, or be in pain, or feeling bad. 

When looking for a larger litter box, here's something you may want to consider. I got one of those under the bed storage box's for my big boy. he's 15 lbs, but is long, so he used to be what we call on this site as a 

"hiney hanger."  he would end up pooping just outside the box. He was IN the box, but he poops in the corner, so that's' where it would end up. I got one at walmart. I think it was only $8.00 or $9.00.  I tried the largest litter boxes, & they just weren't big enough. Here's a picture, to give you an idea. For your girl, you may have to cut a side down for her to get in & out of easier.  I will also say a prayer for you & your kitties, & that it all gets under control before your wife gets there. 


 

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Mist, my elderly cat, is a diabetic who is currently managed entirely through diet. She started off on Glipizide, which worked very well for her. She does drink a generous amount of water and pees to match but when tested her levels are acceptable. She's been off Glipizide for years. BTW - she's currently more than 18 years old.

Cats with diabetes are Type II, much easier to manage than dogs, where diabetics are Type I.

No dry food. Period. Dry food has carbohydrates which A) are not good for diabetics and B) are something cats cannot digest. They are obligate carnivores and cannot digest wheat gluten, corn gluten, potatoes, sweet potatoes, green peas, cranberries, etc that are added to cat food to entice the human shopping for cat food.

I feed Fancy Feast Classic and only the Tender Beef Feast (brown label) and Turkey and Giblets (olive green label.) Mist gets two 3-ounce cans / day. On my own, not suggested by vet, I decided that if human diabetics are advised to eat multiple small meals / day it might help my cat. So I feed 1/2 of a 3-ounce can for breakfast, lunch, dinner, bedtime. I understand this might not be possible for you and only offer it as a suggestion.

The two boy cats, 4 years old, non-diabetic, get the same food, same schedule, and thrive on it.

For treats I use Pure Bites freeze dried chicken.

Even though you will be repainting and replacing the carpeting I would suggest cleaning with an enzyme cleaner to remove any lingering smells that suggest that this is an O.K. place to pee.

All good luck with your cats in your new home in the new year.
 

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Glipizide didn't work for my diabetic cat. He was on it for 6 weeks. When we first took him to the vet because of excess drinking, there was no weak hind leg problem. The six week delay in going to insulin caused my cat to acquire peripheral neuropathy in his hind legs. If I have a cat that develops diabetes in the future, I will skip this stage altogether. Lowest carb as feasible and physiotherapy (getting the cat to jump up on a window sill and walks outside on a leash). These have helped, somewhat. Ask the vet for a chart of the glucose levels since you started the meds.

I find keeping the litter box very full helps the urine from spreading outwards (which your cat may be uncomfortable with). Litter attract may help get both of your cats in the box.
 

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@cocheezie, I'm sorry that Glipizide didn't help your cat. Like people, each cat is different from another. Glipizide did work for Mist, and putting the pill in her wet food was an easy way to treat her.

I hope your cat is doing better now.
 

marc5947

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Funny, I went out yesterday and bought that exact container! I'll try to post pics in a different thread below.
 
Litter attract may help get both of your cats in the box.
Litter Attract?? ...Never knew it existed. Well, I guess it's back to the pet store today :-)
 
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angels mommy

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Oh, that's great!!  Funny, I think I jinxed myself telling you about how Angel poops in the corner of the box, & would sometimes end up on the floor. Last night he was in his box, & I heard a" thud," I right away thought,  "uh oh, that hit the floor, not in the box."  I got up to look, & sure enough, there it was!  
 
 
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marc5947

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Update:

I'm not putting dry food down now, at all. I'm going to feed them wet food twice per day. Once in the AM, and in the PM hours. If they're begging for a night time snack, it will be a http://darlenemichaud.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/fancy-feast-appetizers-cat-food.png]container of this[/url], split between the two of them.

I made an appointment to see the vet on Monday, and I explained the situation to them over the phone. They're going to give her another blood test, and something else (forget what it was called). They're also going to have all of their records faxed down from their old Dr.

While talking to them, the receptionist told me to keep giving my cat the Glipizide, but she recommended it in slightly smaller dosages. That is, until her appointment on Monday.

I am having trouble posting a current 14 second video of her, but here she is just prior to moving down here to FL.

Getting into things, as cats usually do...

 

LTS3

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Update:

I'm not putting dry food down now, at all. I'm going to feed them wet food twice per day. Once in the AM, and in the PM hours. If they're begging for a night time snack, it will be a http://darlenemichaud.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/fancy-feast-appetizers-cat-food.png]container of this[/url], split between the two of them.

I made an appointment to see the vet on Monday, and I explained the situation to them over the phone. They're going to give her another blood test, and something else (forget what it was called). They're also going to have all of their records faxed down from their old Dr.

While talking to them, the receptionist told me to keep giving my cat the Glipizide, but she recommended it in slightly smaller dosages. That is, until her appointment on Monday.

I am having trouble posting a current 14 second video of her, but here she is just prior to moving down here to FL.

Getting into things, as cats usually do...
Great picture of your cat


The Fancy Feast Appetizers are ok for a bed time snack. Just remember that the food is a supplement and contains no vitamins and minerals.

Two meals a day isn't enough for most diabetic cats. Like Human diabetics, several small meals is best to keep blood glucose levels stable. I used to feed my diabetic cat 4 meals a day: breakfast, a midday meal using a timed feeder, dinner, and a post dinner snack.

Yes, keep giving the Glipizide until you have talked with the new vet about insulin treatment. Lantus is a popular insulin to use for cats with very good results. ProZinc is another good choice. You can read more about these and other insulins on the FelineDiabetes.com web site. Make sure the vet does a fructosamine test rather than a quick blood glucose test. A fructosamine test gives the average blood glucose level over the past few weeks. The quick test only tells what the blood glucose level is at that very moment.
 

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Well, I don't have any advice about the diabetes, but if you're putting pads around the litterbox to absorb accidents, I've found that Absorbz puppy pads sold at Costco are a lifesaver. They're very large and come in a box of 100 for around $16. I went through a lot of puppy pads while housetraining my dog, and aside from using them for her to go on, they're also great to clean up accidents if you just flip them over so the absorbent side is on the liquid.
 
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