Really disappointed - very uneducated!

it's been about 17 years since I've owned a cat, but for years I have been considering getting one, but my allergies to cats made me hesitant. Fast forward, I read that siamese seem to be a better breed for people with allergies, so I decided I would look for a rescue siamese/mix and take allergies pills to acclimate. 

2.5 months ago  I found an adorable siamese/mix kitten who was approx. 5-6 months old (along with her friend who was a tad bigger and older). When I arrived to the petstore I was met by the women, who cared for the cats, and I took the one I was interested in out and held her, obviously she was a little scared, but calm. The woman went on to tell me they were feral kittens saved from being released from the TNR program because they were sweet. .... I never heard of this program before.. and didn't have an understanding of feral kittens, I just thought they were "saved". 

I paid for my kitty, and fell completely in love with her, but thought... gee 2 would be better than one, and went back to the store and adopted her friend. So now I have Jazzy & Izzy. Jazzy, has always been curious and seemed to be pretty friendly, but still spooks pretty easy, but has definitely made progress! If she is sleeping, I can pick her up and hold her, she loves to be combed.. but is not really a lap cat at all. Izzy on other hand - loves me when it's feeding time, will play from time to time... but mostly, she remains in hiding. I honestly am so disappointed in my choice of getting feral kittens, I really wanted a PET, that I could love and would love me back.

We had company for Christmas this week... Izzy has been hiding the entire time and jumps at any small movement. However, they will both sleep on my bed, near my side. 2 nights ago... when my company was leaving, they left the door open and Izzy bolted out. I was right behind her, but she made some weird wild noise - like "leave me alone" and ran as fast as she could to get away from our house. Secretly, I felt that she was better off, and I'd go find a nice little domesticated kitten for a playmate for Jazzy. But - I do love Izzy, and kept a watch for her.. thinking I'll feed her and care for her outside. She returned around 11 PM last night, just before I was going to bed, I peeked out and saw her tail. I ran and got a plate of food for her, and brought it out - but she wouldn't come near me.. until I backed off a few feet. eventually, she came to me, and allowed me to pet her. I was able to coax her back into the house, and shut the door... she was pretty affectionate for a while, but she is back in hiding today. 

I almost feel it is cruel to try and force her to be an inside cat... I don't know if I want to settle for having an invisible pet. Taking any advise anyone can give me.

P.S. daytime at our home is quiet.. just me, but even comes and our house can be noisy. 

You don't need to see it as forcing Izzy to stay indoors. It will just take time for her/them to get really comfortable in your home. And their behavior is pretty typical for any rescue... the shelter experience is the great equalizer among animals, making even the tamest cat feel depressed and paranoid. The only way to not have to deal with that at all is to buy a kitten straight from a friend or breeder.

It is great news that Izzy came back home so quickly. So she wanted to see the neighborhood and go for a walk alone. It's perfectly natural. It doesn't mean she hates you.

Whatever you decide to do, please understand that she is never better off living in the wild. Feral cats have very short life spans, rarely get enough food, and can pose a danger to tame cats they run into. The answer is never to let a cat fend for themselves outside. If you decide you cannot live with her, please either rehome her with a friend/neighbor or call the shelter for advice.

But I would encourage you to give them both more time. My Regent came from a breeder and had lived with people his whole life, and his near-death experience really shook him. When he came to live with us it took a long time before he felt brave enough to jump on the couch and hang out with us. Even after all this time he hid behind the couch when we got a visit from carolers. However, we see his progress with each week and know how hard he is working to change.

If you give them a chance to get on their feet, you'll be amazed by their thankfulness and devotion in the end.

Thank you for the reply! At times.. I think I'm making tons of progress... but it's short lived. My other issue is I think Jazzy would do fantastic, but feeds off Izzy's fears. When Izzy runs or spooks - Jazzy does the same. 

Should I be trying to make Izzy allow me to hold her?

I would not give up on her. With time and patience she could become your lover cat. Sounds like they were not well socialized.  Give her a safe spot to hide, but treat and play time so they associated humans with good things. Once she is more content with you, bring good friends over to treat and play.

I have sat on the floor and let them come to me. Let them listen to radio/tv to get used to household noises. I had a quarantine room for the first 2 months they were in my home.  I brought them out for visits in the family room in a large crate to get used to things going on in the house.  Doors opening, dishes being done, washer/dryer running, and my husbands football games.

I have one cat that still does not like visitors and goes to the top of his cat tree.  I have visitors give him treats and let him smell them so he knows there is no danger. He is now coming down from the cat tree to be in the same room although he will not approach strangers like my others.

Sleeping with you is a good sign.

I love my former ferals and I see the return love for me in their eyes.

For her own safety, I'd keep her inside. It will also help her to overcome at least some of her shyness. If she's left outside she'll never learn to trust people and will face far too many dangers. She needs a place where she feels secure in order to blossom into a pet.

Feral cats and kittens require a lot of patience, but many of them can become loving companions. If Izzy interacts at meal times, has been sleeping on your bed and allowed you to pet her and bring her back inside, she's definitely showing progress and is at most semi-feral. Talk to her softly, spend time in whatever room she's hiding out in, gently coax her with wand toys and treats, and above all let her do things at her own pace. Christmas is a hectic time, so it's no surprise that she was anxious and acting a bit wild.

Our shelter pretty much "specializes" in feral cats and kittens, and you'd be very surprised at how many of the kittens are tamed with patience and lots of understanding of their fears. Even some of the supposedly "lost cause" adults manage to overcome their fear and allow people they interact with regularly to touch them.

Izzy is a challenge, but just think how worthwhile it will be to see her turn into a secure and affectionate pet. It's not impossible.

Thanks for all the encouragement! I really have researched feral socialization to death.. and have followed all the suggestions, so maybe it's just mere time she needs. She does rub on my legs in the morning, I can pet her wheneverI have food ( she will not allow me to pick her up). I do hope that she overcomes her fears and will be return the love. Izzy & Jazzy are about 8-9 months old.. maybe 10 months old now, and Iam seriously thinking of adding a 3rd kitten to our family.. a very friendly, domesticated one from a breeder. Do you think having a non fearful cat can help my semi-feral cats relax more?

I would not force Izzy to do anything scary for her. Just keep doting on her and petting her, and as you go, see if you sneak in a kiss or quick hug. The first time you try it, she will squirm away. A few hours later when she lets you pet her again, sneak in another grab. After a while she will be like "I don't understand what this lady is doing but she doesn't seem to be hurting me." This will cause a passive acceptance of being held. Then after a bit more time she will understand cuddles.

P.S. they were trapped from 2 different colonies.. so I know nothing about their past life, other than they were caught around 4-5 months old, was kept with the rescue woman a few weeks, and than caged at the pet store - Izzy there for 4-5 weeks before I adopted her.

No one believes we have six cats because four of them disappear whenever anyone comes in. You are providing her with a very good life. She's already made a lot of progress - sleeping with you is a biggie!

I would definitely keep going. One day you will find she is seeking out pets or standing her ground when someone comes in. Former ferals are the best. I truly think they appreciate what they have.

Thank you for your patience. She's a lucky kitty to have found you!

izzy123 said:

 
Thank you for the reply! At times.. I think I'm making tons of progress... but it's short lived. My other issue is I think Jazzy would do fantastic, but feeds off Izzy's fears. When Izzy runs or spooks - Jazzy does the same. 

Should I be trying to make Izzy allow me to hold her?

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It is surely true it would go quicker to foster Jazzy into a pretty normal home pet cat if alone.  Experienced fosterers avoid to have two shy cats to foster simultaneously, they tend to foster them in each own room.

But in this case, Izzy gets the positive example of Jazzy, and makes HERS fostering easier.  

All in all, they began as ferales, as you were told, although you didnt knew what it meant at this time.

Coming this far, after just 2,5 months, isnt not bad at all!!!   Believe me, its not bad at all.  Fostering of ferales usually do take time, love patience and effort.  You must apparently done quite a few things entirely right, to come as far as you did.  Believe me.

Also, your vision is of a typical, social, home pet loving to sit on your knees.  But quite a few cats, arent so. Not so few, even purebreds, are more or less shy to visitors.

I can take an example from my oldest resident, a well pure bred Russian blue.   Now we knew  RB are often shy, so we accepted this.   And yes, 13 years later he is shy to strangers, but very nice family cat.  He doesnt like much to be carried, but loves be petted when he is lying on a sofa or chair.  He dont likes to lie on our knees, but when we are lying down, he is fond of lying down between the knees, or behind the knee angle - depending on our position.

I know my brothers pure bred somali was very shy too. Really sociale to his dau, but hiding to visitors..

It is quite possible your protegees will always remain shy to visitors - it is just to accept that.   But with proceeding patient work and love, they should be wonderful pets and friends to you.

If you want some cheats, so try with a Feliway diffuser.  Its calming and helping them feel stress free.

There are also other tricks, but you shall know - you ARE on the right way and the right direction.

Take care, and Good Luck!

LOL.. I actually order Feliway before posting!  Again, thanks for all the encouraging, and I will keep working with them! Jazzy actually is more loving today than ever, so hopefully she will be an example to Izzy that we are okay! Honestly - I don't care if visitors see them, I just hope that they will become nice pets for our family, including our 13 yr old who is unable to approach Izzy still.

When I was a teenager, my sister brought home a Siamese cat that had been living on the streets. It literally took about 6 months for her to come out of hiding, but after that she was a lap cat.

My current cat is half Siamese. He's almost 3, and while he'd sleep with me, or sleep on the sofa with me, he'd never rest his head on my lap until about 3 months ago. Now if he sees me sit down he has to put his head right on my leg, and goes right to sleep.

Your cat seems right on schedule for coming out of her shell, as far as I can see.

It took 3 months before Regent willingly let anyone pick him up. Then he had an epiphany that being carried upstairs is easier than climbing them, with the added bonus that he is at human eye level. Now I carry him up for bed every night.

Cats very quickly snap out of their reluctance as soon as they see the benefit of something.

I adopted Remy when he was 6. He had been found in a feral cat colony and spent 3 years in a no-kill rescue shelter when I adopted him. He was friendly and playful, enjoyed pets but did not want to be held or carried.It took about a year for him to become the lap cat he is today. Hang in there and just be patient. Cats do not run on our time. Also, your cats are kittens. In my experience kittens spend very little time in a lap. I would bet the world that things will turn out well for you

izzy123 said:

I am seriously thinking of adding a 3rd kitten to our family.. a very friendly, domesticated one from a breeder. Do you think having a non fearful cat can help my semi-feral cats relax more?

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Our shelter typically puts feral or semi-feral kittens in the same room as friendly socialized ones, and it makes a difference with most of the former. They learn by copying other cats.

I can attest to the fact ferals can become very friendly even the ones that stay outside. I help take care of a very large colony of ferals. About 8 percent are like regular pets because they have acclimated to people feeding and interacting. Just this morning a yearly spring baby was crawling up the back of my coat while I crouched down to fed them. He (Pepino) also got a peacock feather for xmas and we play with it right there in the parking lot under the street light. Others actually get territorial over affection and run other cats off. I know very well the dilemma you face. It can feel you take something from a cat especially ferals, when you deny access to the outside. After all, they were made for it. Just look at them. For this reason I do believe things like cat fences and catios will become more and more popular.

Sorry, typo....I meant 80 percent. These ferals are extremely affectionate!

izzy123 said:

it's been about 17 years since I've owned a cat, but for years I have been considering getting one, but my allergies to cats made me hesitant. Fast forward, I read that siamese seem to be a better breed for people with allergies, so I decided I would look for a rescue siamese/mix and take allergies pills to acclimate. 


2.5 months ago  I found an adorable siamese/mix kitten who was approx. 5-6 months old (along with her friend who was a tad bigger and older). When I arrived to the petstore I was met by the women, who cared for the cats, and I took the one I was interested in out and held her, obviously she was a little scared, but calm. The woman went on to tell me they were feral kittens saved from being released from the TNR program because they were sweet. .... I never heard of this program before.. and didn't have an understanding of feral kittens, I just thought they were "saved". 


I paid for my kitty, and fell completely in love with her, but thought... gee 2 would be better than one, and went back to the store and adopted her friend. So now I have Jazzy & Izzy. Jazzy, has always been curious and seemed to be pretty friendly, but still spooks pretty easy, but has definitely made progress! If she is sleeping, I can pick her up and hold her, she loves to be combed.. but is not really a lap cat at all. Izzy on other hand - loves me when it's feeding time, will play from time to time... but mostly, she remains in hiding. I honestly am so disappointed in my choice of getting feral kittens, I really wanted a PET, that I could love and would love me back.


We had company for Christmas this week... Izzy has been hiding the entire time and jumps at any small movement. However, they will both sleep on my bed, near my side. 2 nights ago... when my company was leaving, they left the door open and Izzy bolted out. I was right behind her, but she made some weird wild noise - like "leave me alone" and ran as fast as she could to get away from our house. Secretly, I felt that she was better off, and I'd go find a nice little domesticated kitten for a playmate for Jazzy. But - I do love Izzy, and kept a watch for her.. thinking I'll feed her and care for her outside. She returned around 11 PM last night, just before I was going to bed, I peeked out and saw her tail. I ran and got a plate of food for her, and brought it out - but she wouldn't come near me.. until I backed off a few feet. eventually, she came to me, and allowed me to pet her. I was able to coax her back into the house, and shut the door... she was pretty affectionate for a while, but she is back in hiding today. 


I almost feel it is cruel to try and force her to be an inside cat... I don't know if I want to settle for having an invisible pet. Taking any advise anyone can give me.


P.S. daytime at our home is quiet.. just me, but even comes and our house can be noisy. 

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It can take a year or two, but probably lot less of time as Izzy can be affectionate.

If there would be possibility to have own quiet room for them, it might make things bit easier for Izzy, but with time they learn how there are no true danger.

Greatest issue probably will be that escaping, cats are really great at learning how to get somewhere where they want and if that is outdoors, one have to be really careful with doors.

One of mine like to still sometimes sneak out from the door in attempt to get outdoors, which is not allowed for her during winter, luckily there is two doors (staircase area is between door to outside and door to indoors) and only me to open those doors so she finds herself being carried back to indoors every time.

Her tactic is to listen if I approach the door and immediately when there is a gap she bolts, I have learned to counter that by placing my foot into gap before opening the door fully, but it is constant struggle, can't imagine how anyone could manage with only one door.

Despite this small daily battle these ferals have become very long way, they are very affectionate indeed and they even come when called, if they have the mood of course, few are visiting outdoors daily and everyone I can pick up and pet, some are even lap cats.

I mostly let them be cats, what they are, I did not except anything from them and let them take small steps of progress as they wanted, daily playtime and regular feeding schedule as well as learning to communicate at their level, it is really great time after you get them to really bond and trust.

Oh yes, mine hide every time when they see or hear other human being when being outside, at their house there is not visitors though, but if there would, they would hide most likely, they don't really come close to other ones and also one thing to remember is that they don't tolerate much of anything that goes against their will, forcing them for example into carrier will probably cause bleeding cuts as ferals are not same as non ferals, they have stronger self preservation sense and they are perhaps more in almost every way, in good and bad.

Working with mine is such, that I just coax them to do what I want, only way seem to be to make them want to do, for example to come indoors it would be impossible to walk to cat and pick it up, they would just hide, I have to get them curious enough to come to me, this was even more important at the beginning, few of them I can now just pick up, but they clearly prefer to walk indoors by themselves, so that is what I usually let them do.

So it requires to learn bit different mindset to get especially those shy ones to trust.

Sounds, body posture, even how one positions fingers, all those matter with those most shy ones, mine were originally such that they ran to hide when I spot them tens of feet away, but these days they come running to me tails upright, that is even that they were a lot older than usually mentioned 8 weeks for socializing, two boys were more like over 50 weeks before I got them in and it took over 20 weeks to get them in, but with enough time and work there is no really impossible.

I'm sure Izzy is a lot easier as you could already pet and got Izzy indoors, it might take few months but surely should be learning to enjoy indoor life.

It took months before I could see my own two boys after I took them in, they were just hiding in their room and I just brought food for them and cleaned litter boxes, sometimes slept in a cough at their room, just use Izzy's curiosity to win fear.

Thanks again for all your thoughts, suggestions and experiences!

I just want to give you an Izzy update.... My company is now gone and our household is getting back to normal, and Izzy is almost like a different cat! SHe is still quick to startle and is still jumpy... but for the past 2 nights she has been totally loving on me! I was laying in bed, watching TV and she climbed onto my chest and just laid down.. she is asking to be petted (still can't pick her up) Maybe we really are getting somewhere!

That's great to hear! Belly rubs and being carried are the two hardest things for a cat to accept. She is making good progress.