Step Brothers, Opposite Personalities, Depression and Competition, Advice (Long Post)

Allow me to formally introduce Mr.Biggie Smalls (LRG Maine Coon mix) and Mr.Teriyaki.

About myself- Had MANY FEMALE cats from birth to age 15, Hand raised many litters in that time. Now at 24 I have two Males.

I am going to ask my questions FIRST, in case no one wants to read the entire book I just wrote about my babies. Scroll down to get some backround.

1.) Biggie (the oldest), lets the young one run over him, he won't play with toys if he knows the kitten is close. Teriyaki is not good at sharing and will simply go after any toy that's making noise or moving. He isn't aggressive and it doesn't seem he's doing it to prove any sort of point but, he just REALLY wants to play with that thing! This has left me very concerned with Biggie and his stimulation. He seems to also be okay with the kitten playing with the toys in front of him as well. It's very similar in my opinion to be a brother type thing. If we try to keep the small one entertained in another room when the older one is in play mode, He'll play for a small time but, then goes in search of his little brother. I'm just not sure what to do here, Biggie was pretty playful until I brought his brother home. I feel like this isn't normal. Anything I can try?
Another thing is food, I feed them wet a couple times a day and dry is always left out for them. The kitten will leave his half way through to go find Biggie and eat on his as well. Biggie doesn't like that. He'll growl a few times but, then just go and find Teriyaki's food. Again, doesn't seem like a dominance thing (the SO seems to think so), seems like he just wants to do EVERYTHING Biggie does. Unless he's trying to cuddle with us, he's going to find Biggie and cuddle him. Could this depress Biggie?

2.) We went out of town for 3 days for thanksgiving, My mother came over daily to feed and give them some attention daily. Once I got back, Biggie has been exceptionally loveable. Only towards me but, he's only really every been that way. Not very sociable, especially with other people. Before I left, I could only get some love once, maybe twice a day. Now mind you, he still followed me room to room. Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining! I love all the attention he's been giving me but, I am concerned he may have had some emotional issues and it's making it harder to still do kitty things.
Neither of them fight for my attention or anything like that. They enjoy very much for all three of us be cuddled on my bed together. Have I broke my cat? lol Is this normal?

3.) These two are COMPLETELY different cats. Biggie is large and laid back. Teriyaki is small and HYPER. However, they are extremely affectionate towards each other. I've never seen unrelated cats as loveable as them. Besides the following around,  I've seen no signs of competition yet. I know they are still young but, Biggie is DEFINITELY sexually matured or VERY close to it. His urine has changed to that very smelly spraying stuff. He has not sprayed on anything, he actually spays inside the litter box. Sometimes he won't cover it but, he does almost every  time. They've both mounted each other a few times but, they cut that out pretty quickly.  Now, I know, Why have I not neutered him yet? Well, Not all males spray and if there is not a good reason I need to have my cats get surgery, then it's not happening. Don't see the point in hurting them because of what MAY happen. They are both completely indoor cats. Biggie was terrified of being outside (still kind of is), I guess all the smells and noises. He will actually walk on a leash and quite enjoys it at night. I don't do it often because sometimes a male or two makes it into our apartments. Do I need to prepare for them being competitive? What can I do to prevent it from being too extreme?

I guess those are my main concerns. If anyone has any advice not completely relevant to my questions, I am open to that as well! As time goes on my confidence is getting lower (it may just be me, recently disabled)

Off topic, Biggie is terrified of my ceiling fan? We never had one until this OCT. If it's off he will barely even enter the room, then at other times he just randomly looks at it and gets very skiddish and runs away. If he hears another fan somewhere else in the house start, he thinks it's the ceiling fan and again freaks out! I've brought him eye level with it, so he could smell it. I gave him treats while it was turned off and, spun it slowly with my hands, too which he didn't give a crap about the treats and took off. I know other people have had their cats afraid at first but, it's still an every day occurrence..
Suggestions?






Mr.Biggie Smalls, Age: aprox. 8 Months. I found him by following what I had first thought to be a garage sale on my way home from work. "FREE KITTENS", was what it actually said. Decided I wanted to stop and cuddle them for a bit since my boyfriend and I disagreed on adopting. Well.... Once I arrived, there were MANY 'stray' cats running around. Met the woman around back, greeted me and then pointed to a plastic carrier in some obscure corner that had old furniture cluttering it (This was a very nice residence, not trashy as I may have painted here.). Now, I live in Texas, The exact date was May 6th 2014, it was pretty warm out, low 90's I believe. I look into this carrier to see one itty bitty baby all by himself terrified in the corner just starring at me. It was love at first no doubt!


Safe to say, He was certainly a very unique kitty. He was only 4 MAYBE 5 when I got him. I had, had no intentions of actually taking him in the beginning but, after chatting with the lady about how he arrived into the world, and basic questions about him, I realized she was lying about everything. Trying to get me to take him. Once I removed him from the CAGE, I noticed he was covered in urine. I sent a picture to my SO and it was a yes! He's been the most intelligent cat I've ever had. Not ONE litter accident, no scratching anything, no obsessive midnight meowing. Just perfect. I grew up in a home with an animal hoarder (sort of, took in strays that were hurt or needed a warm place to sleep). Needless to say, we almost ALWAYS had a fresh litter at any given time. Believe me, looking back, I see how irresponsible that was but, I was also a child and knew no better and couldn't really do much about it besides love the kitties. Almost all the indoor cats were females, never had many males stay around the house but, I became very adept in the ways of caring for kittens, so taking care of him physically was certainly no issue. I did however feel he was not as playful or as interactive with us as cats I had 9/10 years ago. I had assumed at first, of course he just needed to adjust, he want from the street life with other cats, to zero cats in a quite apartment. The first week was TOUGH, he would barely eat, barely move around. I was quite afraid he was very ill. The first picture was a few days after I got him, see if he'd perk up if he went outside. Sure enough he did for a little while. Took him to the vet to make sure he wasn't ill, Vet couldn't give a definite age because of him being a maine coon mix, (I recently found he is almost half, that I know of).
Okay, SORRY I am going WAAAAY in depth here, He was a pretty loner type of kitty but, once we were all home, he was a playful little thing. Mostly playing tag with my daughter and I. Chase us down, bop us on the head and tear arse into the other room and hide. Still at this point, He'd only give us super love once a day! I was also working so none of us were home for about 9 hours a day.
Now, I kind of babied the crap out of him because he was just so little and alone. I held him and talk to him A LOT. He still follows me like a lost dog!

Mr. Teriyaki, Age: Aprox. 4 1/2 months. He was, in the wal-mart parking lot.... With a woman and a child and a sign "FREE KITTENS", of course I couldn't resist. I went to play. They had been out there for two days trying to give them away. Only got 1 of the 3 a home. A female and a male. The story of this litter was, the woman found the litter when they were about 2 weeks old on the school playground. She thought the mother was coming back but, didn't want to leave them there, so she took them.... =( Not the best decision in my book but, her intentions were good. Not positive if the story was true or not. I stood with them for about an hour talking about them and their up bringing, For some reason, she was getting a lot more people approach her since I had come over to play with them. She said, she bottle feed them since she got them, and she had a few dogs and cats already at home but, the kittens were malnourished for sure, So I am not sure if she was actually feeding them the right stuff or right way. They were also covered in fleas and felt like maybe they had worms. After seeing some of the people who were interested in the kittens, none of them could even handle the kittens correctly. In the end, I decided to take the male after a very nice family took the female. I had no intention on keeping him. Was going to get him into good health and find him a good home, which I thought would be better then some random person at walmart.
First day, in the Parking lot.

I had him flea free in a week thanks to NO carpet and diatomaceous earth! He's been a very rambunctious fella since the day I brought him home. Scared of nothing but, baths! Extremely loveable, instant purr factory when you pick him up. However, he was quite difficult to train. Still having a lot of issues with jumping on counters and tables. Scratches a little on other things besides the posts but, he's getting better! I honestly thought that he was not all there in his little kitty head or was malnourished so young, it hurt his growth. He's a small framed cat, slender and long and just all over the place. Happiest little ball of energy I ever saw.



Day 1 of the boys meeting, Teriyaki, instantly ran up to Biggie and started rubbing and trying to play. Biggie freaked out and ran away scared. Biggie would follow Teriyaki around non-stop and would cry if he lost sight of him but, would not interact with him (staking out the kitty I guess). The humans were completely ignored at this point, even food wasn't as important as following the kitten around.

After a few days Biggie finally started interacting with Teriyaki. Now, Obviously they are best friends.... They sleep like that everyday.
 

Your logic about not needing to get them neutered is incorrect.  True, not ALL male cats spray.  But, two intact males will eventually become vicious toward each other and toward people.  They can't live together and getting one fixed will not solve the problem, because the intact male will still attack him.  Intact males need a harem of females to keep them happy.  The mounting now is a sign of dominance.  Soon, it will become sexual frustration. 

Even if you let them out to "roam" and sow their wild oats... One will eventually leave because two intact males would rather not live together. 

Not only that, its healthier for them physically and mentally.  They won't be constantly fighting or have the risks of so many health problems, including but not limited to cancer. 

I also agree, neutering them both will save you a lot of heartache in the long run. If you Google the pros and cons of spay/neutering Felines, you'll see for yourself how little you have to lose and so much more to gain from it.

I've read too many stories of intact toms becoming a notorious escape artist and some never returning home. Those that do, are often injured, skinny, and dirty. Getting your cats fixed will not make them feel any less, those are human emotions. I think everyone who got their cat desexed never regretted their decision, either.

I hope you change your mind about this. Your two really have nothing to lose.

I've looked at the pros and cons of it. I'll get them both fixed IF it becomes an issue. So far it has not. I know 90% of people disagree but, it's just not something I am willing to subject them to if I have no good reason to do so. I've talked with google and vets about it. The pros and cons of it. There are adverse affects for either or. Now, I am new to having two males at once, So please don't think I am not heeding your guys advice believe me, I want them to happy and if they start to terrorize each other I will certainly take them both to get the knife. Am I a bit afraid of the conflicting personalities? Absolutely, my oldest is a not a fighter but, could do some serious damage to the youngest, and again, I do not want that.

They're your cats.  We can't make you do anything... But, as someone working in a vet office and going into behavior studies, I am advising that this course of action is ill advised.... Why?  Because "waiting until there's a problem"... You may not be able to reverse it.  If they start spraying, they may not stop.  AND, when (not if but when) they start becoming vicious with each other, you will have to start all over again and it's a LOT of work to try to fix two cats that were fighting and it doesn't always work.  So it would be in theirs (and yours) to have them done BEFORE there is a problem. 

Also like to add (because it's the biggest reason we hear for people not doing so), if money is an issue, ask your vet or asks around... Lots of places will do males for very cheap or for free even.  You just have to know about it and find it.  You can also look online.  Often the Humane Society (if you have one in your area) will know or will be doing it.

Okay Okay. I know you guys are right it's just uuuuuuuuugh. These are my sons. They have the same place as my own child. I've gotten with the human society and other places and have a few cheaper options. I have recently become disabled, so any money saved would be very ideal. When I got them both I had a very high paying job, if I didn't I never would have gotten them in the first place. It will take a couple months before I can comfortably afford it, even with it being heavily discounted. I have yet to find a free program in my area. I don't think there is one just because I live in such a condensed area it'd be damn hard to offer free services to such a large population?

As far as personalities, for biggie, he just seems so bored.

I understand.  I felt the same way.  When I was growing up, I had two males that I got from their momma that my mom let me keep.  Morris and Max.  They were inseparable.  Then, around a year and a half old, they started fighting non stop.  Max left.  I was heartbroken.  Even after I got Morris neutered (I had to save up my own money, too, and for a 9 yr old I was very proud of myself), Max never really came home.  I would catch glimpses of him from time to time and put his food out hoping he'd come home for good... It didn't happen until after Morris died.  Max came home a few months later, after Morris's scent was gone.  He was home approximately 5 months before he died.  I tried to have him neutered, too, but unfortunately, he had STD's and didn't have long to live.  It was too late.  So, I made his last months as happy and comfortable as possible. 

If you are worried about them becoming lazy or their personality changing, let me assure you these are myths.  Weight gain is a possibility but as long as you keep them active by playing with them a lot and exercising with them, it isn't an issue, either.  The risks are minimal when you consider the risks keeping them intact.  I play with my neutered males everyday and they are a good and healthy weight.  They could probably stand to lose a pound or two but they are not obese and they are very active and happy.  Their personalities did not change. 

For Biggie, you can try playing and exercising with him.  Try to see if you can get him used to a kitty harness and take him for walks.  It seems silly but they love it.  It is a rule of thumb that cats should have at least half an hour of hard play per day.  Some people like to spread it out during the day so 5 or 10 minutes here or there and a really big one before bed to wear them out.  It makes them happier and helps them bond with each other and you more, as well.  Lots of people like Da Bird or laser toys or Neko Flies, etc.  Each cat is different. 

You can look up low costs neuters in your area.  You might be surprised. 

hizerslougha said:

 
I've looked at the pros and cons of it. I'll get them both fixed IF it becomes an issue. So far it has not. I know 90% of people disagree but, it's just not something I am willing to subject them to if I have no good reason to do so. I've talked with google and vets about it. The pros and cons of it. There are adverse affects for either or. 

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I'd like to see where you have seen that there are cons for neutering.

Please be advised too that this is a pro-spay-and-neuter site. We encourage anyone who is not a licensed, professional breeder to fix their pets. Forum rules:

 3. This is a pro-spay-and-neuter website. Please make sure to spay and neuter your cats. Unless you are a professional breeder and your cat is part of a professional breeding program, please educate yourself to the importance of spaying and neutering by the time your cat is 4-6 months old. If you take care of a feral colony, please make sure to do so responsibly by practicing TNR (Trap, Neuter, Release) protocols within the colony. Read More Here.

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FhiCat said:

 
I'd like to see where you have seen that there are cons for neutering.

Please be advised too that this is a pro-spay-and-neuter site. We encourage anyone who is not a licensed, professional breeder to fix their pets. Forum rules:

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You can find "cons" for neutering on just about any site you look at.  The problem is, people don't realize that just because it's on the internet and it says "Veterinary" whatever does NOT mean that the information is accurate.  Plus, not only that, you can get a lot of bad advice on a lot of sites.  And people that don't really want to do something will take any reason and stretch it out to rationalize it.  Unfortunately, I see this a lot in my area.  People don't want to take the time to know the truth and they tell themselves "A male cat doesn't need fixed because I won't be taking care of kittens."  Then, they wonder why there are so many kittens and cats around all of the sudden being a "nuisance."  It is just as important, if not more important to neuter a male because he can impregnate hundreds of females and father thousands upon thousands of kittens in his lifetime.  With the unwanted pet crisis, this is heartbreaking.  Plus the health and mentality benefits for him.

Big Fix for Big D spay/neuter surgeries will be available for pets in eight Dallas zip codes: 75211,75212, 75216, 75217, 75224, 75227, 75228  and 75241. The program will offer FREE  spay or neuter surgeries, rabies vaccinations and registration to the pets of people living in these eight zip codes in South Dallas. Though these services are FREE, the Big Fix for Big D partners ask participants to please consider making a donation so they can help even more individuals spay or neuter their pets

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From this link:

http://www.spayneuternet.org/available-programs/index.php

More links for affordable s/n programs:

http://www.texasforthem.org/services/spay-neuter/cat-spayneuter/

http://www.outreachclinic.com/prices-dallas-texas/

http://pawsitivelytexas.com/resources-for-pet-owners/resources-for-pet-owners/

In addition, you could also see if any of these places take "care credit". With your disability, I'm sure you can apply for it and be approved. More info on care credit is here: http://www.carecredit.com/vetmed/

I hope you find something here that works for you. We're all rooting for you and your kitties, so don't feel bad. I've been down and poor before too, but my two kitties have made my world just a bit more fun again.   

As has been said, while not all whole males spray, they certainly are prone to. The thing is, once they start, neutering will be necessary but possibly not enough to break the habit. It really is best to neuter males before they are six months old, to avoid this risk.

Good luck!