- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #21
Also wanted to post the xray and labs. See if anyone sees a correlation. Pls excuse the shadowing
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Multiple issues. Guidance appreciated
- Thread starter haze n blaze
- Start Date
Any luck off the lysine? I'm curious!
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #23
He hasn't thrown up at all! And I haven't given him the lysine again. It's hard to say if the "gastritis" just worked itself out of his system or if it REALLY was the lysine. I'm currently trying to get him off the royal canin hydrolized canned food because it's expensive and has horrible fillers. I'm slowly switching him to Nutro Natural Choice canned. It's affordable, grain free, no meat by products, and carrageenan free. I'm doing only the chicken loaf kind with the idea that if it is an allergy, I can sort through it.
Fingers crossed!
Fingers crossed!
Yay! I'm glad he's doing better!
I guess once his diet is settled you can re-introduce the lysine and see what happens....
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!
I guess once his diet is settled you can re-introduce the lysine and see what happens....
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #25
I was actually able to find some articles were animals were having allergic reactions To lysine. It does happen and no doubt with my luck, my kitty will be the small percentage.
Now if it does end up being the lysine (my vet said he would be hard pressed to believe it) what do I do about the FHV? Lactoferrin alone won't help will it? I'm almost afraid to try anything at this time but don't want him to suffer with the URI sneezing and runny eyes when it happens. Those symptoms never reoccurred on the lysine
Now if it does end up being the lysine (my vet said he would be hard pressed to believe it) what do I do about the FHV? Lactoferrin alone won't help will it? I'm almost afraid to try anything at this time but don't want him to suffer with the URI sneezing and runny eyes when it happens. Those symptoms never reoccurred on the lysine
I'm just seeing this thread. My cat was on a combination of lysine and lactoferrin but seemed to not like the taste of the lysine. Someone (maybe my vet, I can't remember now) said lysine might be salty and that's why she didn't like it. At any rate, I had her just on lactoferrin and it did help. There's a long thread about it here: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/267703/stubborn-herpes-infection-add-lactoferrin-in-addition-to-lysine. If you scroll down to post #18 or so that's where the conversation turns to using lactoferrin only.
Agree with above. But also back to lysine.... It is important to see what else might be included in the lysine supplement you are using. Unless it was pure lysine powder they often mix it with other fillers or preservatives that could be causing the issue. Just something to keep in mind with all these supplements.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #29
I use the pure lysine powder by NOW.
OK, just wanted to throw that out there as a possibility.
I'm coming in on this thread late, but I have a few thoughts:
It appears that Haze has Type 2 FHV. Is that correct?
I've been Googling Feline Herpes Virus. Type 2 has been associated with urinary problems in one study. www.provet.co.uk/infectiousdiseases/5a7b68c.htm
Cat problems don't always equate to human problems that are similar, but herpes may. In humans, herpes tends to "hide" in infected cells, sneaking out along the nerves occasionally to cause outbreaks. Remember those ads about shingles vaccinations? If you've had chicken pox, the virus is inside you. So the virus is there already, but they still recommend vaccination. Why? Because it alerts the immune system to be on the lookout for the virus and try to fight it off. Is there a vaccine available for FHV? If so, and if Haze is allergic to L-lysine, this might be another way to go.
My mother was a physical therapist, and she used therapeutic levels of ultrasound to effectively treat herpes outbreaks (both cold sores and shingles). If you like, I'll ask her whether she remembers the details.
In humans, pain can definitely cause nausea; I'm pretty sure this is true for all vertebrates.
Margret
It appears that Haze has Type 2 FHV. Is that correct?
I've been Googling Feline Herpes Virus. Type 2 has been associated with urinary problems in one study. www.provet.co.uk/infectiousdiseases/5a7b68c.htm
Cat problems don't always equate to human problems that are similar, but herpes may. In humans, herpes tends to "hide" in infected cells, sneaking out along the nerves occasionally to cause outbreaks. Remember those ads about shingles vaccinations? If you've had chicken pox, the virus is inside you. So the virus is there already, but they still recommend vaccination. Why? Because it alerts the immune system to be on the lookout for the virus and try to fight it off. Is there a vaccine available for FHV? If so, and if Haze is allergic to L-lysine, this might be another way to go.
My mother was a physical therapist, and she used therapeutic levels of ultrasound to effectively treat herpes outbreaks (both cold sores and shingles). If you like, I'll ask her whether she remembers the details.
In humans, pain can definitely cause nausea; I'm pretty sure this is true for all vertebrates.
Margret
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #32
I'm not sure I know the type of FHV. The vet based it off of the symptoms Haze was having. And with the lysine working so well, it "confirmed" the belief of FHV. He has been fully vaccinated. I will have to see if that includes against FHV also. My vet does some type of laser treatment at his office. I would love if you could ask your mom the type of laser treatment she used so I have reference when speaking to my vet.
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WATER: You might also consider that your tap water may contain something that Haze is sensitive to.
I'm in NYC. Our Tap water USED to be great. Not any more. There have even been Coccidia cysts discovered in our water supply on occasion.
And - there are Prescription residues, pesticide residues, petroleum residues, etc - found in many public water supplies. These don't boil off!
(If you're near a farm area - there's a very good chance of Pesticide residue.) Florida also is not well-known for great public water.
I don't use tap water for drinking - or for cooking. Not for me - or for my cats. We all get Poland Spring water.
I don't get the cheaper brands - as many have been shown to be using public tap water - and just bottling it. Some use "purified" water from public supplies.
I don't trust this either.
RE: Foods: Evanger's makes many varieties of foods that do not contain bad ingredients. (You need to check each label). They are a bit more expensive than supermarket food - but -
not terribly (At least -not on the internet!). Instinct Variety is very good too - and generally well-liked by cats - but rather costly. (This company has told me that the Instinct varieties of Chicken,
Beef, Lamb, etc are THE SAME FORMULAS - in their cat or dog food. So, you can save money by buying the 13oz dog food cans. They DO contain Taurine.)
Many of the Evanger's varieties - are not easily available in retail stores. Instinct is - but - very costly in retail stores.
There are other good foods too, of course.
You may want to try going to internet sites such as Wag or Petfooddirect. They have a lot more variety of foods than retail stores -
and - they are much less expensive.
You can also use these 2 sites just to see what is in the foods - as they both tend to have complete ingredient disclosures available.
Jackie
I'm in NYC. Our Tap water USED to be great. Not any more. There have even been Coccidia cysts discovered in our water supply on occasion.
And - there are Prescription residues, pesticide residues, petroleum residues, etc - found in many public water supplies. These don't boil off!
(If you're near a farm area - there's a very good chance of Pesticide residue.) Florida also is not well-known for great public water.
I don't use tap water for drinking - or for cooking. Not for me - or for my cats. We all get Poland Spring water.
I don't get the cheaper brands - as many have been shown to be using public tap water - and just bottling it. Some use "purified" water from public supplies.
I don't trust this either.
RE: Foods: Evanger's makes many varieties of foods that do not contain bad ingredients. (You need to check each label). They are a bit more expensive than supermarket food - but -
not terribly (At least -not on the internet!). Instinct Variety is very good too - and generally well-liked by cats - but rather costly. (This company has told me that the Instinct varieties of Chicken,
Beef, Lamb, etc are THE SAME FORMULAS - in their cat or dog food. So, you can save money by buying the 13oz dog food cans. They DO contain Taurine.)
Many of the Evanger's varieties - are not easily available in retail stores. Instinct is - but - very costly in retail stores.
There are other good foods too, of course.
You may want to try going to internet sites such as Wag or Petfooddirect. They have a lot more variety of foods than retail stores -
and - they are much less expensive.
You can also use these 2 sites just to see what is in the foods - as they both tend to have complete ingredient disclosures available.
Jackie
Last edited:
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i would take him off that food for a while if you can, if it is making him ill it is not worth a nickel anyway..perhaps if he has urinary issues..(had to deal with blockage with my little guy last year) try the royal canin urinary SO. They make both wet and dry and all my cats love it but I really watch and make sure they do not eat it as I dont need them having issues! the science diet made other kitty ill.. I am wondering could he have kidney issues..He seems young but it is not unheard of..I am dealing with that now with my oldest kitty who is 17 1/2. I have another rescue kitty who threw up food for 2 weeks, I changed her to the hills sensitive stomach and it stopped. I am phasing it out and shifting to the Wellness indoor but ever so slow.
I do have to say I usually do NOT feed Hills or Royal Canin foods and would not due to all the grains and who knows what. I feed the rest of the brood merrick thanksgiving feast and beef pate but they have all sorts of flavors. I have 5 cats ranging in age 2 to 17+ but the kidney issues and urinary blockage were new to me and boy I know about the hit to the credit card..
Keep us updated..
Take care and good luck!
Vicky
I do have to say I usually do NOT feed Hills or Royal Canin foods and would not due to all the grains and who knows what. I feed the rest of the brood merrick thanksgiving feast and beef pate but they have all sorts of flavors. I have 5 cats ranging in age 2 to 17+ but the kidney issues and urinary blockage were new to me and boy I know about the hit to the credit card..
Keep us updated..
Take care and good luck!
Vicky
Not laser, ultrasound. Lasers may be used for surgery, I don't know, but this is vastly different. It provides deep heat, without damaging normal tissue. My mother used to give us an ultrasound treatment whenever we had a sore throat; never actually tested it with a throat culture before and after, but it was probably killing even strep.
I will ask her later tonight. Remember, she's not a veterinarian; she was using this on humans. Also, she is almost 97, and hasn't been active in P.T. for many years, so she may not remember. And I don't know whether there are any vets who do therapeutic ultrasound, which is what you would need. Not trying to be negative, I just don't want you to think it's a sure thing. I'll let you know what she says tomorrow.
Later, Margret
I will ask her later tonight. Remember, she's not a veterinarian; she was using this on humans. Also, she is almost 97, and hasn't been active in P.T. for many years, so she may not remember. And I don't know whether there are any vets who do therapeutic ultrasound, which is what you would need. Not trying to be negative, I just don't want you to think it's a sure thing. I'll let you know what she says tomorrow.
Later, Margret
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This is something I just thought of. Worms. Worms can compromise the immune system - and cause allergic reactions.
Typical worms (eg. Roundworm, Hookworm) are not always detected in commonly used Flotation Tests, as they look for eggs in a flotation test. Eggs can easily be missed
(Often because of the particular stool sample), Have your cats been wormed recently?? Most cat rescuers I know - simply worm all cats coming in - without bothering with
Flotation tests, as the standard wormers are quite safe. And virtually ALL cats coming in from outdoors - have worms. But, do ask your vet about this.
If one of your cats has these worms - the other probably will, as they are easily transmitted.
Also - there are some very devastating worms that ARE NOT DETECTED AT ALL by the Flotation test. These are Fluke Worms.
Fluke eggs can only be confirmed with a SEDIMENTATION test - as they have heavy eggs that don't float.
Even with a Sedimentation test - they can be missed. Because of the various (and complicated) life cycles - these eggs may not be released regularly.
There may have to be repeat tests at different times. Flukes also do not respond to standard worming medicines.
Fluke worms are rather common in warm, moist waters. (You did say you are in Florida?). The new kitty may have had water outside that contained Cercariae (Kind of like larvae) from flukes.
Flukes can also be transmitted through foods - eg. Raw meats from contaminated mice or other animals, fish from contaminated waters, vegetables that may have been contaminated with
water containing flukes, etc.
I have a cat in my home in New York - who had a severe Fluke infestation - with MANY varieties of Flukes. From waters in Long Island where he came from - or from foods he may have eaten
foraging as a stray. What he had was not Cat Flukes. He had flukes that normally infest cattle, deer, etc. (He came from a country/farm area.)
As I understand it - Flukes generally are not transmitted from one cat to another, as the whole worm would need to be ingested. So, your other cat should not contract them from Haze, if he has them.
(I am assuming that your cats are not allowed outside? As you can surmise - this can be very dangerous - even just for contamination from worms!)
I even found an encysted Fluke - inside the belly cavity of a Rotisserie chicken I bought in my local supermarket. Dead from the cooking - but Gross!)
Be careful about feeding raw meats. Especially those that come from Florida or other warm areas.
I've been told that you can freeze meats first for a while - to kill these monsters.
Flukes are very debilitating. They can eat virtually all the cat's nourishment - seriously affecting the cat's immune response. And, they can get into every organ - causing damage there.
(Including Liver, Heart, Brain, Kidneys, Bladder, etc). There are also Lung and Blood Flukes. (which more typically infect cats).
PLEASE - ASK YOUR VET ABOUT ALL OF THIS. Vets in Florida may be more familiar with Flukes than they are in NYC. I got no help at all from vets in New York for my kitty - as none of the many
I contacted were familiar with the kind of flukes he had. The vet I took him from - and, who had checked him out - missed these flukes totally. She was about to euthanize him because he was so sick.
So, I took him in. He is healthy and happy today (even still harboring ONE variety of Fluke worm that is very resistant).
I knew that my kitty had flukes - and several varieties - because - they were coming out WHOLE. I don't think this generally happens - but, it did with my guy.
(I thought they were poops at first, as they were brown from poop - and compressed like poop. It took me a while to recognize - that these were actually some sort of organisms coming out of him!)
So, I identified them by matching with pics on the internet. The Flukes he had were typically found in cattle, deer, sheep, etc.) I sent pics to my vets. No one knew how to treat these flukes in a cat.
The medication they use on cattle et al - is dangerous for cats.
If your vet is not familiar with all these fluke scenarios - try to find a vet who is.
I know of one vet in Florida (Orlando area) who is familiar with Fluke Worms- as I get my worming medications from him (very inexpensively).
He is retired, so, I don't know if he would agree to see your cat, but, he will answer questions via email. And, he may know of a vet in your area who is familiar with Flukes.
He is: Dr Arthur Wells
Jackie Page
Typical worms (eg. Roundworm, Hookworm) are not always detected in commonly used Flotation Tests, as they look for eggs in a flotation test. Eggs can easily be missed
(Often because of the particular stool sample), Have your cats been wormed recently?? Most cat rescuers I know - simply worm all cats coming in - without bothering with
Flotation tests, as the standard wormers are quite safe. And virtually ALL cats coming in from outdoors - have worms. But, do ask your vet about this.
If one of your cats has these worms - the other probably will, as they are easily transmitted.
Also - there are some very devastating worms that ARE NOT DETECTED AT ALL by the Flotation test. These are Fluke Worms.
Fluke eggs can only be confirmed with a SEDIMENTATION test - as they have heavy eggs that don't float.
Even with a Sedimentation test - they can be missed. Because of the various (and complicated) life cycles - these eggs may not be released regularly.
There may have to be repeat tests at different times. Flukes also do not respond to standard worming medicines.
Fluke worms are rather common in warm, moist waters. (You did say you are in Florida?). The new kitty may have had water outside that contained Cercariae (Kind of like larvae) from flukes.
Flukes can also be transmitted through foods - eg. Raw meats from contaminated mice or other animals, fish from contaminated waters, vegetables that may have been contaminated with
water containing flukes, etc.
I have a cat in my home in New York - who had a severe Fluke infestation - with MANY varieties of Flukes. From waters in Long Island where he came from - or from foods he may have eaten
foraging as a stray. What he had was not Cat Flukes. He had flukes that normally infest cattle, deer, etc. (He came from a country/farm area.)
As I understand it - Flukes generally are not transmitted from one cat to another, as the whole worm would need to be ingested. So, your other cat should not contract them from Haze, if he has them.
(I am assuming that your cats are not allowed outside? As you can surmise - this can be very dangerous - even just for contamination from worms!)
I even found an encysted Fluke - inside the belly cavity of a Rotisserie chicken I bought in my local supermarket. Dead from the cooking - but Gross!)
Be careful about feeding raw meats. Especially those that come from Florida or other warm areas.
I've been told that you can freeze meats first for a while - to kill these monsters.
Flukes are very debilitating. They can eat virtually all the cat's nourishment - seriously affecting the cat's immune response. And, they can get into every organ - causing damage there.
(Including Liver, Heart, Brain, Kidneys, Bladder, etc). There are also Lung and Blood Flukes. (which more typically infect cats).
PLEASE - ASK YOUR VET ABOUT ALL OF THIS. Vets in Florida may be more familiar with Flukes than they are in NYC. I got no help at all from vets in New York for my kitty - as none of the many
I contacted were familiar with the kind of flukes he had. The vet I took him from - and, who had checked him out - missed these flukes totally. She was about to euthanize him because he was so sick.
So, I took him in. He is healthy and happy today (even still harboring ONE variety of Fluke worm that is very resistant).
I knew that my kitty had flukes - and several varieties - because - they were coming out WHOLE. I don't think this generally happens - but, it did with my guy.
(I thought they were poops at first, as they were brown from poop - and compressed like poop. It took me a while to recognize - that these were actually some sort of organisms coming out of him!)
So, I identified them by matching with pics on the internet. The Flukes he had were typically found in cattle, deer, sheep, etc.) I sent pics to my vets. No one knew how to treat these flukes in a cat.
The medication they use on cattle et al - is dangerous for cats.
If your vet is not familiar with all these fluke scenarios - try to find a vet who is.
I know of one vet in Florida (Orlando area) who is familiar with Fluke Worms- as I get my worming medications from him (very inexpensively).
He is retired, so, I don't know if he would agree to see your cat, but, he will answer questions via email. And, he may know of a vet in your area who is familiar with Flukes.
He is: Dr Arthur Wells
Jackie Page
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- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #37
He was given two rounds of worm treatment that starts with a "P". Honestly can't remember the full name. Plus he had one round of treatment at the humane society. He is also on Revolution for the last two months.
Would that kill most worms including flukes as you described? He has had two X-rays to look at his lungs and abdominal area and the vet seemed to feel that there were no worms. Is there a way to test other than fecal testing?
In the beginning, I thought the water was the culprit so I started giving both my cats bottled water. Pampered little fur babies! Lol!
I feel like since he isn't able to get any more dried food, he has nothing to "harden" up his BMs. All just wet food. He hasn't thrown up in 9 days which is the longest he has gone in the last month. I really think there may be a link to the lysine. Or at least it was a contributing factor.
Would that kill most worms including flukes as you described? He has had two X-rays to look at his lungs and abdominal area and the vet seemed to feel that there were no worms. Is there a way to test other than fecal testing?
In the beginning, I thought the water was the culprit so I started giving both my cats bottled water. Pampered little fur babies! Lol!
I feel like since he isn't able to get any more dried food, he has nothing to "harden" up his BMs. All just wet food. He hasn't thrown up in 9 days which is the longest he has gone in the last month. I really think there may be a link to the lysine. Or at least it was a contributing factor.
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P: The "P" was probably Pyrantel Pamoate (aka: Strongid). For Roundworms/Hookworms. This does not kill Fluke Worms. Just knocks out their competition.
If they found traces of Tapeworm the may also have given Praziquantel. This can be effective against some Flukes. but - should be used for Flukes with guidance
from a Fluke-Knowledgeble vet, as it is used differently for Flukes.
(Also, if Ivermectin is recommended - it should be done under the supervision of a vet - and the cat needs to be weighed exactly on a baby-scale (or vet scale) as it must be given
in exact dosages. Because Ivermectin can cause bad side-efffects.
Weighing the cat on an adult human scale - or holding the cat on a human scale - is not accurate enough.)
REVOLUTION: Did Kitty have these problems before the Revolution? Revolution can have side-effects in some cats. I forget what they are right now - but, you can research this on the internet.
or - call the company. They're very customer-friendly.
FLUKES: I don't think Revolution would help with Flukes. Revolution is not known for this. You can call the company to see if they know anything about this.
I don't know if x-rays would show Flukes - or traces of them.
The best person I know to ask about flukes - is Dr. Wells.
RE: Hardening Bowel Movements: I use some Baby Rice Cereal mixed into wet food. It is a very effective binder.
(Also- Instant potatoes are good. The most chemical-free form I have found is the Betty Crocker plain potato formula.)
Or - I sometimes add pumpkin, which helps normalize consistency.. Sometimes - I use both. (Pumpkin is one of the few veggies that is very good for cats)
Glad you thought to use bottled water. It's the only way to go lately! Check the label to see where it's from. Then you can check if those water sources - are the better ones!
Lots of research is involved nowadays to check anything going into your body or your babies. We humans have spread contamination all over!
Jackie Page
If they found traces of Tapeworm the may also have given Praziquantel. This can be effective against some Flukes. but - should be used for Flukes with guidance
from a Fluke-Knowledgeble vet, as it is used differently for Flukes.
(Also, if Ivermectin is recommended - it should be done under the supervision of a vet - and the cat needs to be weighed exactly on a baby-scale (or vet scale) as it must be given
in exact dosages. Because Ivermectin can cause bad side-efffects.
Weighing the cat on an adult human scale - or holding the cat on a human scale - is not accurate enough.)
REVOLUTION: Did Kitty have these problems before the Revolution? Revolution can have side-effects in some cats. I forget what they are right now - but, you can research this on the internet.
or - call the company. They're very customer-friendly.
FLUKES: I don't think Revolution would help with Flukes. Revolution is not known for this. You can call the company to see if they know anything about this.
I don't know if x-rays would show Flukes - or traces of them.
The best person I know to ask about flukes - is Dr. Wells.
RE: Hardening Bowel Movements: I use some Baby Rice Cereal mixed into wet food. It is a very effective binder.
(Also- Instant potatoes are good. The most chemical-free form I have found is the Betty Crocker plain potato formula.)
Or - I sometimes add pumpkin, which helps normalize consistency.. Sometimes - I use both. (Pumpkin is one of the few veggies that is very good for cats)
Glad you thought to use bottled water. It's the only way to go lately! Check the label to see where it's from. Then you can check if those water sources - are the better ones!
Lots of research is involved nowadays to check anything going into your body or your babies. We humans have spread contamination all over!
Jackie Page
I finally got hold of my mother, and she doesn't remember it at all. (There may be some selective memory going on; she knew a doctor who played trumpet in an amateur jazz band and got cold sores every year. She cured his cold sores, and then he shunned her when she changed her religion.)
If you still want to try it without better details, here's what you do. First check with your vet to make sure that the mouyh sores really are causedby the herpes.B]With your vet's consent[/B], find a therapist or vet who does therapeutic ultrasound, assuming they exist. I can't emphasize this too strongly. It must be someone who is accustomed to doing this kind of thing on cats, and both your vet and the therapist must agree that it's worth trying. Arrange that the next time Haze gets a mouth sore (please note that I'm assuming that these are the equivalent of cold sores) ask for some low level ultrasound be applied to the sore. It must be at a time when the sore is actually present, because that's when the virus is at the surface and therefore vulnerable. And it's best if you can have it done when the sore is just starting. Make sure that it's extremely low level ultrasound. if it works, great. If not, you take Haze back for more ultrasound the next time he gets a mouth sore, but this time tell them to make the ultrasound a bit stronger. Keep up this process until it works, the therapist says it's not safe to increase the intensity any higher, or you decide that it's no longer worth it.
If necessary, sedate Blaze before taking him in for a treatment.
Remember, start low and build up slowly.
Good luck[/SIZ
If you still want to try it without better details, here's what you do. First check with your vet to make sure that the mouyh sores really are causedby the herpes.B]With your vet's consent[/B], find a therapist or vet who does therapeutic ultrasound, assuming they exist. I can't emphasize this too strongly. It must be someone who is accustomed to doing this kind of thing on cats, and both your vet and the therapist must agree that it's worth trying. Arrange that the next time Haze gets a mouth sore (please note that I'm assuming that these are the equivalent of cold sores) ask for some low level ultrasound be applied to the sore. It must be at a time when the sore is actually present, because that's when the virus is at the surface and therefore vulnerable. And it's best if you can have it done when the sore is just starting. Make sure that it's extremely low level ultrasound. if it works, great. If not, you take Haze back for more ultrasound the next time he gets a mouth sore, but this time tell them to make the ultrasound a bit stronger. Keep up this process until it works, the therapist says it's not safe to increase the intensity any higher, or you decide that it's no longer worth it.
If necessary, sedate Blaze before taking him in for a treatment.
Remember, start low and build up slowly.
Good luck[/SIZ
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #40
Thank you everyone! I was told to give pure pumpkin to my other cat when he was having urinary issues in case he was straining. I was always under the impression that pumpkin had a lot of fiber this making the BM softer. Is that not correct? I've seen on here a few times that it can be used for diarrhea but thought that contradicted what I previously used it for.
