Multiple issues. Guidance appreciated

I've been an original poster for Haze's urinary issue but now additional things have come about and I'm confused. Haze is 10 months old. I've had him for 2 1/2 months now in addition to my 1 1/2 year old cat, Blaze. They grtalong great. Sleep together, lick each other, sit in the window together to bird watch



Issue #1: ongoing for the last month. urinary frequency. The vet feels it's stress related so we have tried calming collars, feliway spray and diffuser, and c/d science diet wet. Collar worked for a week for the frequency, feliway didn't work and the c/d diet caused vomiting ( or we think that was the cause of the vomiting. I'll get to that in a moment). We've tried collecting urine but cat won't sit still enough to cystocentesis. But because the frequency intermittent and the vet was able to look at as,all sample under micro and saw no bacteria, they are excluding infection. Next step is sedated cystocentesis urine collection. C/d stress dry is on its way to see if that works.

Issue #2: last week and then again last night- vomiting. 4 times. The first vomit was 3-4hrs after eating and produces all food eaten. Then followed by vomiting every couple of hours of just white foamy fluids. Both times( last week and again today), vet gave injection of cerenia and famotodine. Haze does well on both and usually start seating within a few hours. He did well for 6 days with no vomiting since the last weeks injections. Last night started again. I told the vet the vomiting and nausea seems to correlate after licking genitals and the most recent incident was while he was trying to urinate in the box. That was today. Last week vet tried having me giveHaze science diet I/d for gastrointestinal issues.haze refused to eat it and went back to his normal science diet wet food and tiny amt of science diet hairball dry. No problems all week.

Chemistry panel labs done todaywere all normal. Hematology had to be sent out and won't be back until Monday. Vet now wantsme to try royal canine hypoallergenic wet food to see if he is developing an allergy. I'm kinda annoyed because he's been fine on his regular food previously to trying the c/d. I really think the cystitis flare up is just causing pain, nausea, and vomiting.

Issue #3: vet noticed today gingivitis and some sores near his teeth that were not there last week when she checked them. This would explain why he seemed to be having trouble chewing the hairball dry because it's triangular and a bigger shape.

I asked for the buprenex that was previously discussed because it's supposed to help with the cystitis pain but she didn't want to give it because she said if there is an underlying problem,the buprenex could mask it and we need to figure it out.

I really think the underlying issue IS the cystitis which is not being properly treated. I'm so frustrated and upset because not only is my little fur baby not feelings well, but it seems there is no end in sight. I just lost a 5 month old kitten in October due an "unspecified congenital kidney disorder" and am terrified thisis becoming a repeat.

Haze is eating, drinking, having bowel movements, urinating( albeit frequently) and playing with Blaze.

I will try to royal canine today once he is ready to eat after his exhausting trip from the vet. We literally just got home and I wanted to reach out to everyone on the site.

If I've left out any pertinent info that you need to help me, pls let me know.

Thank you in advance for any help.

I forgot to say that haze is feline herpes virus based on symptoms of URI and eye drainage. Managed with L-lysine twice daily. This of course doesn't help the cystitis and seems to just be a revolving door of sickness. Now with the mouth sores near his teeth....the FHV causes those?

OK, here we go.  First off, I'm going to state right up front that I'm not really an expert on the issues you've got going on, but I"ll give you my opinions anyway

Issue #1)  Frequent urination doesn't necessarily mean there is cystitis going on.  Is Haze urinating inappropriately (in placing OUTSIDE the litter box)?  I see his chem panel was normal (good ), but not sure what it is you are still waiting for...hemotology?    Does he cry while in the box?  (as if in pain?)  How many boxes do you have?  Do you use perfumy litter, or unscented?   I have only recently had any experience at all with cystitis, and my little one would sit in the box for long periods of time with no output, then she would squat on the bed, then on the couch, then back into the box, etc. We took her to the Emergency Vet and she had an empty bladder, so could not get a sample, so they gave her a pain shot and an antibiotic and gave us a large bill and away we went.  Next day she was fine.  Two weeks later, same exact thing.  This time we were able to go to our regular Vet and he gave her a tiny bit of steroid shot to  help with inflammation of her bladder, in case, and more antibiotics. (again, empty bladder)  No more issues.  Between the first and 2nd times, though, we had out of town company, which might have exacerbated the problem.  Now, as to the food, DRY is the very worst you can feed a cat with urinary tract/bladder issues.  They need moisture.  Even adding water to canned food is a good idea.   Can you not try mixing in some of his "normal" food into the canned c/d to see if you can get him to eat it?  Which Science Diet canned do you  normally feed him? 

Issue #2)  The vomiting white froth is indicative of too much stomach acid, and the famotudine is for that.  The Cerenia is an anti-emetic, which should help with nausea.  The question is obviously, why is he nauseated? I've honestly never heard of cystitis causing nausea, but as I stated earlier, I'm not an expert on this topic (although I have googled it LOTS  ) Sounds like it COULD be food related, but no way to tell for certain without food trials.  I think the Royal Canin hypoallergenic might not be a bad idea, but CANNED only.

Issue #3)  These new mouth sores could definitely be caused by his herpes, poor guy.  You say you are using L-Lysine twice a day.  What dosage?  During flare-ups I've read you can give as much as 1000mgs per day.  And make sure it's pure Lysine, no additives.  Also, you might want to check out this thread:  http://www.thecatsite.com/t/267703/stubborn-herpes-infection-add-lactoferrin-in-addition-to-lysine.

Since you haven't had Haze all his life, do you know his history?  Could he have had a very stressful kittenhood?  I'm just wondering if stress IS the reason for his issues, yet he gets along well with Blaze, then wondering what IS bothering him to try to help you keep his stress down.  Knowing his past history  might help with that. 

BTW, so sorry to hear about the loss of your other little one so recently.  It makes it doubly hard, and scary, to be going thru this problem now with Haze, not knowing what is wrong with him

You might check out Jackson Galaxy's Spirit Essences site for some help with both issues.  I've used a couple of his mixes successfully with stressed out kitties who are peeing inappropriately.  We use Peacemaker, Safe Spaces for Cats, and Stress Stopper.

stephanietx said:

You might check out Jackson Galaxy's Spirit Essences site for some help with both issues.  I've used a couple of his mixes successfully with stressed out kitties who are peeing inappropriately.  We use Peacemaker, Safe Spaces for Cats, and Stress Stopper.

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mrsgreenjeens said:

OK, here we go.  First off, I'm going to state right up front that I'm not really an expert on the issues you've got going on, but I"ll give you my opinions anyway

Issue #1)  Frequent urination doesn't necessarily mean there is cystitis going on.  Is Haze urinating inappropriately (in placing OUTSIDE the litter box)?  I see his chem panel was normal (good :high5: ), but not sure what it is you are still waiting for...hemotology?    Does he cry while in the box?  (as if in pain?)  How many boxes do you have?  Do you use perfumy litter, or unscented?   I have only recently had any experience at all with cystitis, and my little one would sit in the box for long periods of time with no output, then she would squat on the bed, then on the couch, then back into the box, etc. We took her to the Emergency Vet and she had an empty bladder, so could not get a sample, so they gave her a pain shot and an antibiotic and gave us a large bill and away we went.  Next day she was fine.  Two weeks later, same exact thing.  This time we were able to go to our regular Vet and he gave her a tiny bit of steroid shot to  help with inflammation of her bladder, in case, and more antibiotics. (again, empty bladder)  No more issues.  Between the first and 2nd times, though, we had out of town company, which might have exacerbated the problem.  Now, as to the food, DRY is the very worst you can feed a cat with urinary tract/bladder issues.  They need moisture.  Even adding water to canned food is a good idea.   Can you not try mixing in some of his "normal" food into the canned c/d to see if you can get him to eat it?  Which Science Diet canned do you  normally feed him? 

Issue #2)  The vomiting white froth is indicative of too much stomach acid, and the famotudine is for that.  The Cerenia is an anti-emetic, which should help with nausea.  The question is obviously, why is he nauseated? I've honestly never heard of cystitis causing nausea, but as I stated earlier, I'm not an expert on this topic (although I have googled it LOTS :lol3: ) Sounds like it COULD be food related, but no way to tell for certain without food trials.  I think the Royal Canin hypoallergenic might not be a bad idea, but CANNED only.

Issue #3)  These new mouth sores could definitely be caused by his herpes, poor guy.  You say you are using L-Lysine twice a day.  What dosage?  During flare-ups I've read you can give as much as 1000mgs per day.  And make sure it's pure Lysine, no additives.  Also, you might want to check out this thread:  http://www.thecatsite.com/t/267703/stubborn-herpes-infection-add-lactoferrin-in-addition-to-lysine.

Since you haven't had Haze all his life, do you know his history?  Could he have had a very stressful kittenhood?  I'm just wondering if stress IS the reason for his issues, yet he gets along well with Blaze, then wondering what IS bothering him to try to help you keep his stress down.  Knowing his past history  might help with that. 

BTW, so sorry to hear about the loss of your other little one so recently.  It makes it doubly hard, and scary, to be going thru this problem now with Haze, not knowing what is wrong with him

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Haze has not urinated anywhere but the box. He doesn't cry out but occasionally he does what I call "shrilling" which I feel is a sound of irritation. I use unscented fresh step litter. I also have three boxes in my tiny apartment but often the third one goes unused. The vet lab machine that runs the hematology was down so they sent it out. I gave haze mostly wet science diet chicken pate with just a small amt of dry to give a little crunch. I add about a tablespoon of water to it to make it wetter so he will get enough fluids. When the c/d wet was originally introduced, i mixed it with the other wet and dry food. He threw it up. I tried a couple of days later and that is when the full on vomiting episode took place.

I worry about trying all these different foods because ultimately I want him onsomething that will help with the urinary issue. That seems to be the biggest obstacle. I think, in my uneducated experience, that the rest of these problems will eventually get better once that is managed.

I give 500mg of lysine in morning and then again at night. I tried going down to the maintenance level after things seemed cleared up, but the sneezing started again so I'm just going to leave him on the 1000mg a day. I give the Now lysine pure powder so no fillers or other stuff is in it. I have heard about lactoferrin most recently but before i add anything else to his diet, I was hoping to clear everything else up first.

I don't know much about haze's history. He was only at the shelter three days before I adopted him. He was 8 months old and already neutered, clean, no mites, fleas, etc.

As a side note, he seems better today. I'm not giving him any dry since it seems it would be too hard for him to chew with those gum sores. Coincidentally today, just one day after haze's episode, I came down with the stomach flu. Vomiting all day, nausea. Etc. weird right?

I will checkout the spirit essences site. Seems better than putting haze on meds. I wouldn't want him in a "haze". Do you use all three at all meals?

Glad Haze is a little better...sorry you're sick now. 

Sounds like you're doing everything right on the litter and boxes     Hmmm, I guess i didn't understand that it was the 2nd time around trying the C/D that started up the vomiting again.  That's really strange since Science Diet and Hills prescription foods are quite similar. (I say that, but I still don't know WHICH variety of Science Diet you are feeding...(they don't have something called Chicken Pate) so I can't compare apples to apples...   AND, there is more than one "flavor" of the canned C/D ) 

Maybe the spirit essences will help.  I've never used them, but know several folks who have. 

mrsgreenjeens said:

Glad Haze is a little better...sorry you're sick now. 

Sounds like you're doing everything right on the litter and boxes :high5:     Hmmm, I guess i didn't understand that it was the 2nd time around trying the C/D that started up the vomiting again.  That's really strange since Science Diet and Hills prescription foods are quite similar. (I say that, but I still don't know WHICH variety of Science Diet you are feeding...(they don't have something called Chicken Pate) so I can't compare apples to apples...   AND, there is more than one "flavor" of the canned C/D ) 

Maybe the spirit essences will help.  I've never used them, but know several folks who have. 

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Haze threw up after the first feeding of the hills c/d and then again two days later when I tried giving it to him again. That was the first round of vomiting. Then 6 days later, he had another bout of vomiting while just eating his regular science diet chicken. I say pate because it's not the chunky gravy kind. He was given the hills c/d chicken when wee were trying the prescription

It just seems so weird to me that he was fine (with exception to the FHV which was at bay) for several weeks and then all of this happened and now there is talk of stress cystitis and food allergies. Part of me feels like I'm being "had" by the vets office and I really don't want to be disrespectful because I love my vet. But i don't want to be gullible either. I would do anything for my cats and I don't want that to preyed upon.

Idk....

I just had a foster kitty that was drinking excessive amounts of water and peeing tons. His urine and blood came back fine. 

Thankfully he's finally cut back on the water consumption, but it took him about two months. Due to his history (being trapped as part of a feral colony) I think his water drinking is a resource hording issue. Now that he knows the water is the 100% of the time and not going away he doesn't guzzle it as much as he used too. 

Look into getting a water fountain maybe? My water guzzler seems to like it, he would at first sit there and drink for up to a minute. Now he just takes a little sip here and there. 

I'd also try out a limited diet wet food only for him. If his mouth is hurting the wet food will be easier to eat. If he does has crystals then the wet food will make him pee it out. If he's thirsty all the time the wet food will hydrate him. A limited diet because of allergies. I'd recommend Natural Balance's line of food, most cats seem to like it and its easy to find. 

ReiKitty said:

I'd also try out a limited diet wet food only for him. If his mouth is hurting the wet food will be easier to eat. If he does has crystals then the wet food will make him pee it out. If he's thirsty all the time the wet food will hydrate him. A limited diet because of allergies. I'd recommend Natural Balance's line of food, most cats seem to like it and its easy to find. 

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Ever since this last visit Haze has only been getting wet. I can only imagine the pain that even the small amt of the dry I was giving him was doing to his gums.

Haze n Blaze said:

Ever since this last visit Haze has only been getting wet. I can only imagine the pain that even the small amt of the dry I was giving him was doing to his gums.

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Sorry I missed that when I first skimmed through the posts. A couple thoughts I have had....

He's reallllllly young to have that bad of teeth. There has to be something else going on. stomatitis comes to mind. Rodent ulcers?

Is he maybe ingesting any litter? Since you seem to notice he does after cleaning himself....

Maybe a an allergy test for Haze? Our local pet specialty store offers one and there's this one online - http://www.nutriscan.org/

I hope you get some answers

Thanks.

I have ordered the CET oral rinse as suggested by my vet. Found it much cheaper on Amazon than through my vet but that's no surprise. I didn't purchase the water additive because it says use 2 teaspoons to a quart of water daily. I def don't leave that much water for them. How would I figure the difference with just a medium size cat bowl. They don't drink THATmuch water so I feel it would be wasted anyways. I read online that you can soak a QTip in the rinse and rub it over the teeth which is easier than squirting. I think I will try that. I still hate being the person my cat associates with these unhappy situations. . I'm hoping the rinse will be delivered by my appt next week so I can ask the vet to show me how to do it with just one person. Single person household here

Does anyone have experience if the rinse will be painful to the sores he has on his gums? I'd hate to irritate him even more. His breath is foul and I'm just putting together the fact that he likes sucking on my fingers within the last couple of weeks. I thought he was just being cute. I thought it just meant he was comfortable with me like he. Was with his momma. I actually wake up in the middle of the night with him curled up sucking on my fingers! I wonder if it helps soothe him or the teeth? But I imagine I shouldn't let him do that due to infection. The vet wants me to follow up next week to recheck him. I did find a baby tooth on the carpet today. Am I silly in thinking the sores could be mistaken for teeth breaking in? Surely a vet would know the difference right?

I also got back the remainder of the labs (hematology) and they were all normal only showing slight inflammation which she said is normal after Haze vomiting. She is hoping this is not an autoimmune disease. :sunk:

On hating being that person - oh, how familiar. I found that if I had a treat (Greenies can work wonders!) in my pocket and gave it immediately after the squirting, my cat actually looked forward to these occasions. Well, to the treat, anyway.

Back at the vets office because haze vomited again and became very lethargic. Meatloaf form, won't eat after two meals, he did try drinking water. Vet did an X-ray and sent for extra radiologist review-nothing. She said they could do an ultrasound but they have to send me out for that and since it's New yets nothing is open but the emergency hospital. She is going to give him cerenia and famotodine injections again. I'm now very limited to money as I have racked up over $1000 on my credit cards for the last few weeks with all these issues. She said if it's gastritis it may just take a few more days to resolve. This has been going on a week and a half with the vomiting. She doesn't think it's pancreatitis because he would have a fever and be a lot more sick and vomiting excessively. It's been three days since the last vomiting incident. With the holiday tonight I'm worried he is going to end up in the ER or at the least go through this all over again in a few days. I've looked up causes of gastritis. He hasn't eaten or drank anything bad. I don't have plants or poisonous fluids available. I'm just spent and have been crying all night at the thought of him being in so much discomfort and looking so lethargic. He slept so deeply last night after throwing up that I wasn't even sure if he was breathing. He usually wakes up to any sound and he never budged the whole night. I'm scared that the vet isn't catching something and I can't afford another opinion.

She said anti inflammatory we can be hard on his already upset stomach.

Does anyone have any other ideas?

How long does a famotodine injection last?

Gastritis I think would have more constant vomiting with it and not last over a week.

Is he pooing? if he's not its probably some sort of blockage not showing up on the xray, totally possible, and will require exploratory surgery.

If he is pooing okay, or when he actually manages to keep food down and is, try feeding him just plain chicken, cook some in your home and see if he'll eat that and keep it down. Rip it into small shreds so he doesn't have to chew it. If he doesn't keep that down see if he'll keep down cook hamburger meat. Don't do raw, you don't want to upset his tummy. But chicken can pretty common food allergy. You can also try some plain yogurt, preferably goat yogurt which you can find at health food or fancier grocery stores. You want to get something in him that he will keep down.

Also they have A/D food which is a very moist, palatable food high in calories. You can even syringe feed it. However its full of other random junk and if he's sensitive to something it might bother him.

Allergies could be causing the mouth sores... maybe?

So if you can find something he can eat and keep down reliably you can start bring in other foods and start working on finding out why his gums are so bad.

If you are extremely worried for him over the holiday talk to your vet, it might be cheaper to hospitalize/kennel him for a couple of days over the holiday where they will be monitoring him, then having to go to an emergency vet.  I had a litter of parvo pups over new years a couple year and we did that with one of the pups that was really bad off rather then risk him crashing at home and no vet care available.

cocheezie said:

How long does a famotodine injection last?

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It seems to last at least 24 hrs because my vet said if I neededto, I can give a 1/4 tablet of a Pepcid AC the next evening one hr prior to a meal.

ReiKitty said:

Gastritis I think would have more constant vomiting with it and not last over a week.

Is he pooing? if he's not its probably some sort of blockage not showing up on the xray, totally possible, and will require exploratory surgery.

If he is pooing okay, or when he actually manages to keep food down and is, try feeding him just plain chicken, cook some in your home and see if he'll eat that and keep it down. Rip it into small shreds so he doesn't have to chew it. If he doesn't keep that down see if he'll keep down cook hamburger meat. Don't do raw, you don't want to upset his tummy. But chicken can pretty common food allergy. You can also try some plain yogurt, preferably goat yogurt which you can find at health food or fancier grocery stores. You want to get something in him that he will keep down.

Also they have A/D food which is a very moist, palatable food high in calories. You can even syringe feed it. However its full of other random junk and if he's sensitive to something it might bother him.

Allergies could be causing the mouth sores... maybe?

So if you can find something he can eat and keep down reliably you can start bring in other foods and start working on finding out why his gums are so bad.

If you are extremely worried for him over the holiday talk to your vet, it might be cheaper to hospitalize/kennel him for a couple of days over the holiday where they will be monitoring him, then having to go to an emergency vet.  I had a litter of parvo pups over new years a couple year and we did that with one of the pups that was really bad off rather then risk him crashing at home and no vet care available.

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He is def having decent BMs.

I hadn't thought about allergies causing he mouth sores. Is that common? I just figured it was associated to the feline herpes.

He just seems too young to be having any major issues. I keep thinking it has to be something environmental. Something in my household. I've looked up everything that could possibly cause stomach upset and I really just don't have a lot of those types of things in my house (plants, toxins, etc)

BM are good! The odds of it being a blockage are going to really slim!

If allergies in humans cause hives and reactions in people.... I know when I eat walnuts my mouth feels like its on fire.... So I can't see why allergies couldn't cause irritation on the gums. It's worth a shot. You've done urine and blood samples, and everything sounds good. I'd start thinking about allergies. Our pup had diarrhea that the vet couldn't explain, we spent around $300 dollars on tests and visits. Someone told us to take him off lamb it's too rich for pups. Sure enough the poos went back to normal and any time he has lamb he gets an upset tummy still.

There is something going on with him for sure and like you said his really young for any serious issues.

Hmmm..

http://www.med-health.net/L-Lysine.html

Allergic reaction to L-Lysine in humans is swelling around the mouth and tongue. Maybe you have the one cat in the world allergic to Lysine. Maybe take him off the supplement for a couple days and see if there is any improvement. Worth a shot!

ReiKitty said:

BM are good! The odds of it being a blockage are going to really slim!

If allergies in humans cause hives and reactions in people.... I know when I eat walnuts my mouth feels like its on fire.... So I can't see why allergies couldn't cause irritation on the gums. It's worth a shot. You've done urine and blood samples, and everything sounds good. I'd start thinking about allergies. Our pup had diarrhea that the vet couldn't explain, we spent around $300 dollars on tests and visits. Someone told us to take him off lamb it's too rich for pups. Sure enough the poos went back to normal and any time he has lamb he gets an upset tummy still.

There is something going on with him for sure and like you said his really young for any serious issues.

Hmmm..

http://www.med-health.net/L-Lysine.html

Allergic reaction to L-Lysine in humans is swelling around the mouth and tongue. Maybe you have the one cat in the world allergic to Lysine. Maybe take him off the supplement for a couple days and see if there is any improvement. Worth a shot!

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Omg! Get out of my head! I was thinking the same thing about the lysine. Lysine leaves the system quickly. I will take him off for a few days. Fingers crossed I don't get a URI flare up. It really does feel like a never ending battle.

Thank you for the article. I'm definitely showing my vet. Anyone know of an alternative to lysine for FHV? I've read up on lactoferrin but don't know much passed what I've read if it just supplements lysine or could be used as a standalone