First time making bone broth for IBD questions.

So I was over on the feline nutrition site reading about IBD and the "healing power" of bone broth. Then I read about it and watched the You-Tube video from Dr. Becker too. They mostly covered using a stockpot or slow cooker and simmering for up to 24 hours. I found some other sites about making bone broth for people...more popular now with the Paleo diets I guess. One was using the electric pressure cooker we have (Instant Pot) and takes 2.5 hours. It goes through a 30 min pressure cook then a  20 minute simmer, then repeats the process 2 more times. So I decided to try that method.

I got some whole chicken necks to use. My plan was to take the meat of the bone after the first cooking so not overdo the meat so much. After the first cooking though everything is pretty much broken down and the bone is pretty soft and crumbly. There is no way to take the small amount of meat and skin off. So I'm going to leave it in the full time. Dr. Becker said if the bones get that way some people just whir it up in a blender to make sure it is totally broken down and either leave it in or feed it separately. These will be cooked bones but totally mush.

I'm just wondering if I should strain the broth, leave it all in, skim some fat, no fat?? Everybody seems to do it differently. My kitties are still eating canned  and dry (unfortunately) food. This is just a trial for a while to see what I can get them to eat, before I buy supplements. So far all I have given them is some baked chicken thigh, heart, and liver in very small amounts (for about 1 week).

I should have a good 8-10 cups of this stock/broth that I hope to freeze for future use as well. I'm just not sure how much and how often to give it to them and if I should leave the skin, meat, mushy bone in there ...feed it separate...or not use the chunks at all.

I used a just under 4 lbs chicken necks, 7 cups water, and 2 tsp apple cider vinegar. The vinegar is supposed to help draw the nutrients out of the bone I guess.

Preparing meat is kind of foreign to me. I'm the family baker and dessert maker, not much of a cook. If only kitties needed cookies and pies this would be so much easier!


 

So I guess there aren't too many bone broth makers here! What I ended up doing was straining most of the broth before it congealed. Then I took some of the meaty bits with mushy bone, skin, and some broth and pureed it in the food processor. It was the consistency of hummus  and I could not see or feel any remaining bone pieces. I left a portion of the meat, skin, and bones in chunks with some broth. I put the three different types: broth only, pureed mush, chunky mush into pint and quart sized canning jars and froze them.

So far I have only been using the broth. I thaw it in the fridge and give them each tablespoon or two at each meal when they have canned food or the cooked chicken, liver, heart combo I have been trying. The pint jars last 3-4 days. The broth is pretty benign I think. It is congealed and thick when cold, but liquified to a thick broth when warmed up. I did not skim any fat from any of the three types.

I'm still pondering if it is ok to give them the meaty parts with the mushy bone. I'm sure it won't cause an issue like splintered cooked bones would. But, I'm concerned that the high ratio of bone mush to the meat and skin in the necks might cause constipation or something??? Also since I left all the skin on I think it might be very fatty?? At least it should keep in the freezer while I figure it out.

I did pretty much the same as you with my ibd kitty. My feeling on the fat is that it helps by coating the inflamed gut and thereby is soothing. You will notice the fur and skin becoming more oily in a few days and this helped my cat because her fur was falling out in patches on her face and some skin was becoming raw. The fat healed this in a week or two. I am not suggesting that a heavy fat diet is good long-term. But when a cat is sick it can be beneficial IF they don't have other issues where it cannot be tolerated like ckd perhaps.

I also blended up the other stuff into a thin pate and syringes it into her when she wasn't eating. It helped get her through the rough patch then I put her on raw food using rad cat at first. She became healthier than I ever saw her after a couple of weeks on that. It was amazing.

Thanks so much for the reassurance. It is a frustrating experience since the one cat with the problem is also the fussiest, slowest eater... and driving me a bit up the wall. Luckily her issues so far are not as severe as many others I have read about. Usually it is just vomiting about two times a week, but it has been worse at times. Everyone here has been so helpful.

I understand.   But a healthy cat should not be chronically vomiting 2 or more times a week.   2 times a year maybe.   The problem is finding what is making her vomit is a process of elimination and can be frustratingly difficult.   Again - I am not talking about an acute episode of vomiting - this is the chronic type.  Here is what I would suggest:

1) 80% of vomiting issues are food related.   Allergies, sensitivities, etc.   Change to a different food and monitor the results.    It could be something like a sensitivity to carrageenan.  The PROBLEM here is 95% of canned food HAS carrageenan so you will be banging your head against a wall.   You could go with a 'prescription' anti-allergy food from someone like hills or purina but personally I would avoid making them richer and just do it right and go raw and monitor the cat.  If you cant do homemade raw then try commercial to see if the vomiting issue gets solved.   A good commercial is Radcat since it has SIMPLE ingredients and NO fillers - which is what you want.   You might have to try a new protein that the cat hasn't had before like rabbit for example.

2) If you have ruled out food and the vomiting continues.   Is it hairballs?   If 80% of the vomit episodes produce hairballs your cat has a GI motility problem.   This could be genetic but my opinion is this is from damage already done from an improper diet.    Is it reversible?   I doubt it.   Here is where you are going to have to rely on things like vets best hairball control.   There is a new hairball med available from vets but it is expensive and I do not know how good it works but it is out there.

3)  If you have ruled out hairballs then sorry to say chances are good your cat has a chronic disease that needs medical attention.  FIRST -  Have a full blood panel done at the vet.   Don't do anything else there for now.   Get a copy of the results.  You want to have a snapshot to compare in case she gets worse later.   It should cost $125-$350 depending where you go.   If you have a petsmart with banfield in it they are reasonably priced AND the results are loaded on their website for your convenience.

4) Depending on what the blood test shows... your vet may have to do more tests to find out what is wrong.   Here lies the REALLY frustrating part.   Chances are unless your vet is a superstar they will run dozens of costly tests and still cannot tell you what is making your cat vomit.    Whatever you and your vet decide to do next, at this point you need to look into a prescription for Cerenia.  If your vet objects without giving you a sound reason then part ways.  If a trial stops the vomiting then stay with it possibly for the rest of your cats life or if your vet can pinpoint the disease then you might be able to discontinue it.   

That's as far as I can go but I hope this helps you or perhaps someone else down the road.   

Thanks for all the info zoneout. The vomiting has be going on since last spring and we have been to the vet many times. I did an overly lengthy post about it on the health board in November.

Cliff notes -->With three cats and the vomit only taking place overnight initially...it took a while to even figure out who was doing it and how often. Vet and I initially thought just hairballs and tried more grooming and lube based treatments. Vet said food allergies were unlikely at just over a year old. Cat wasn't loosing weight and appeared in excellent health otherwise. Sometimes she goes a week or 10 days with no vomit, sometimes vomits two times a week, sometimes but rarely more.

Then she had a really bad several day episode of vomiting and diarrhea which led to a belly x-ray then ultrasound which were both basically inconclusive, but showed some possible inflammation. Vet suspected IBD or lymphoma and suggested full surgical biopsy. I declined and proposed another fecal test (previous ones were from shared litter box) and blood work (never had any yet) just to be sure there is nothing else possible going on first. Then if nothing else shows up on tests to try dietary changes and treat as IBD with possible medication if non-responsive to diet alone. She gave me a bottle of an anti-emetic drug ondansetron (Zofran) to try. I mentioned Cerenia, but she said that works great but could only be used short term for a week or two. I am also trying the Vet's Best Digestive Aid, and the dietary changes (dry to wet and home cooked, hopefully raw later) so I am putting off the new drug for a while. I don't want to make too many changes at once.

The dietary changes are very slow going because the three cats are addicted to kibble. I am trying to pick wet foods without carageenan and stick to poultry or rabbit based foods with no grains and low carbs for now. I would like to try raw but not until they are totally off kibble. Vet discouraged raw unless I got the commercial kind that is pasteurized. I had not seen the Radcat brand yet, but will look for it.

Cat's fecal test was negative, but we still have to do the bloodtest. We had a lot of other stuff going on so I couldn't bring her yet and I kind of wanted to give her a break from the vet. She was a bit traumatized by the last few visits. She is vomiting less overall I think and the digestive aid with psyllium has firmed up her poops which were always kind of soft before. I'm going to try and get her in for the bloodwork in the next week. We are in a deep freeze which is putting things on hold for a bit.

So food allergies at 1 year old are unlikely but IBD or lymphoma is?

Draw your own conclusions....  I have said enough about vets on this site already.

Anyway,  I have heard that Radcat is available at some Whole Food stores in case there is one near you.   It is also available from http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Rad-Cat-Raw-Cat-Food-Diet/537000.aspx

If you can afford it long term and it works then great.   Probably at some point peruse the raw food forum here and go for making your own.   The folks in that forum have been doing it for years and know their stuff.

Best wishes to you and kitty!

Thanks, I hadn't thought to look at Whole Foods and there is one not too far away. I normally go to Pet Supplies Plus and they didn't have much selection and I questioned their storage. They did have a bunch of Bravo stuff on permanent clearance for half off. But when I looked that brand up it seems they have had a lot of recalls and maybe that is why they are clearing it out. I have been doing a lot of reading up on the raw forums and would like to go that way eventually, but am starting with the cooked until they are off the kibble. I got my first bag of Alnutrin this week to make my first batch of cooked complete food. Up til now I was just giving them the meat/liver/heart as a small portion of their calories.

I don't have total blind trust in any vet or doctor and always read up on everything myself to discuss with them. I wish I could say I picked this office after an exhaustive search for the best vet for our needs. But it was actually just for proximity, due to my senior dog that has a really hard time with car rides.

It's pretty much the same issue with vets and doctors - they are trained to cure illness rather than prevent it. That's why I roll my eyes when I read that folks ask their vet for advice on diet.