Feeding whole prey items?

Hello everyone .
We've had our kitten for a bit over a week now, and she is currently on Go dry and wet food (dish full of kibble and wet food offered morning and evening).
I would like to switch her over to a raw diet, and was wondering if anyone here feeds whole prey items instead of a commercial made raw diet. I have access to plenty of baby chicks, mice, and whole fish and would like to use these as a main food source.
If anyone could give me some advice on feeding a whole prey diet it would be much appreciated (how much to feed, kinds of prey, etc.).

I personally don't (I fed prey model raw) but a search in these forums yielded several threads you might find helpful.
Here is one.
Also check out some of the articles.
I would follow the transition steps, hints; the principles are the same whether you're transitioning a kitten/cat from dry food to canned wet food; or dry food to raw. And be careful where and what kinds of fish you get; some have heavy metals in them. Ritz (female, adult) is prone to UTIs, so I avoid fish.

Thank you for the information .
How often would a kitten on raw require feeding? I can only do three times per day maximum. I understand that raw food digests quicker so if three times is not enough I will wait until she is older to switch her over.
Also, when feeding raw is it ok to feed a small amount of kiddle just in case she gets a big hungry while I'm at work (I'm gone 10 hours) or will she be ok without food for that long?

The fish is whole herring- I buy them in bulk for my monitor lizards. Is this type of fish ok?

Mildew said:

Thank you for the information

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How often would a kitten on raw require feeding? I can only do three times per day maximum. I understand that raw food digests quicker so if three times is not enough I will wait until she is older to switch her over.
 

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Generally, as much as the kitten will eat   When my cats were kittens, my Aby was fed 3 times a day and my DMH 2 times a day. Three times a day is enough for most kittens but do feed according to your kitten's appetite. Some may need to be fed a little more or less.

Mildew said:

Also, when feeding raw is it ok to feed a small amount of kiddle just in case she gets a big hungry while I'm at work (I'm gone 10 hours) or will she be ok without food for that long?

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10 hours is a bit long. Instead of regular kibble, leave some freeze dried raw food or canned food out for your kitten. Stella and Chewy's and Nature's Variety Instinct are two good brands or freeze dried raw to try. I used a timed feeder for canned food.

Freeze dried raw is a great idea for a mid-day feeding! Thank you .
That was my main concern on switching her over to a raw diet as i'm gone a large portion of the day and figured she'd get hungry.
I may look into purchasing a timed feeder as that idea sounds great (how does that work with wet food- wouldn't it go bad before it's fed?).
Think I'll pick up some of that freeze dried raw today and start slowely switching her kibble over first as I hate that stuff (so unnatural), then work on slowely adding chunks of prey in with her wet food (which she LOVES).

I have heard of some people feeding insects to their cats on an occasional basis when feeding a raw diet, and was wondering if this is at all beneficial to the cat? I have plenty of feeder dubia roaches, grasshoppers, and such that are raised on a good quality diet so can add an occasional insect in with her meal if it's ok to do.

I think your plan of replacing kibble with freeze dried raw and adding chunks of raw meat to the canned food is absolutely perfect. 

In regards to the insects, I'm sure that's fine to feed. Especially since they are "feeder" insects and are raised on a good diet. I know I have read around here that some people have fed their cats crickets for a good protein boost and I imagine your grasshoppers and roaches would serve the same purpose. What a lucky kitten to have been adopted by you!

One thing that I would caution against is the fish. Fish is not really an appropriate "main" food for cats aside from a weekly treat or so for Omega-3's. Not only because of the heavy metals but fish is also known to be an inflammatory. I stay away from it but definitely do your own research and see if it's something you want to do.

I also feed mine quail chicks and I used to feed mice. (They loved the mice but I just didn't feel comfortable having them in my freezer  I tried!)You do want to make sure that you're not always feeding baby animals though. You want to feed more adults than babies. The reasoning behind this is that the bones in chicks and pinkie mice/rats are not fully calcified yet and don't provide much calcium. And growing kittens definitely need lots of calcium!

If there's any way that you could fit in 4 feedings a day I think that would be ideal. But 3 times a day should be OK I think? I've never had a kitten on raw food before so I'm not an expert here. I transitioned mine this year and they are 8 and 3 years old. I feed mine twice a day.   

Hi mildew and glad you're thinking about raw. You don't need to worry about being gone for so long. Leave a large amount of food out in the morning, enough so it's gone by the time you get home without remains, and the cat will be ok. Don't concern yourself over leaving raw food out, it will dry out long before it spoils. Try it and you will see it is not a deal breaker. As to the diet if you can get whole prey that is excellent. Make sure they vary in age and type since young prey won't have all the things a cat would get it the wild. Use as many different types of animal as you can early on because she will eat picky and not eat new food later on.

What age is the kitten? If truly a kitten there is almost no transition required because she will eat everything. I'd suggest three meals a day because kitten stomachs are smaller and they need lots of food. You don't need to feed freeze dried or kibble or fish. FD is commercial raw which is not ideal. Kibble just don't feed that ever. Fish are not truly species appropriate and should only be used as a once in a while treat. I never feed fish because cats can get addicted to strong flavor and not eat anything else plus there are toxins in some fish. The amount of nutrients required to be a balanced diet from fish would necessitate an unhealthy amount of fish toxins - it's just not necessary but can be fed as a treat.

Lastly I'd encourage you to ask more questions here it through pm because the initial process you are going through can be frustrating and takes a lot of learning. I'd suggest joining the Yahoo Raw Cat group for info - it is second to none for raw feeding.

Thank you for the advice .
When I started keeping my monitors, I did plenty of research, including the importance of a whole prey diet, as the species I have usually does not fare well in captivity. I have seen first hand how much healthier my guys are compared to other monitors that are fed a less than ideal diet and the damage that a poor diet can do to their system.
When I took in Sweetie Bell, it dawned on me how my lizards' requirements and hers are not much different and how inappropriate the dry kibble food is for her. I only want her to have the best chance of being happy and healthy for years to come, and figured if I already have bins and a freezer full of nutritious, whole prey items, there is no need for me to be feeding the kibble.

I have read that insects are very high in taurine, but it was not a scientific paper so I'm not 100% sure if the statements are accurate. Sweetie bell loves to pick off the odd stray insect that gets out of the moni's enclosure, so I'm sure she would appreciate a bug tossed in with her food every now and then .

As for the fish, I was planning to use them mostly for the Omega fatty acids so can feed those only once per week or so. I don't have any baby rodents, as they would be too small to get the lizard's interest, so the ones I have are adult mice and ASF rats .

I don't think four feedings would be possible, except for weekends. I'm gone from 630-5 during the week, so was planning to feed her one meal in the morning, one in the evening, and another late at night. I'll see how the three feedings a day work and will keep a close eye on her weight. If it's not working for her I will find a way to change up the schedule .

Mildew said:

I may look into purchasing a timed feeder as that idea sounds great (how does that work with wet food- wouldn't it go bad before it's fed?).
 

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You want to leave just enough food in the feeder to hold your kitten over to the next meal when you get home. Maybe one or two mini meals. The lid of the timed feeder will keep the food from drying out too fast, although some cats are ok with slightly dried out canned food. Some feeders have an ice pack feature to keep food cool. You can also freeze canned food into cubes and place a cube into the compartments. The cube will slowly defrost and stay fresher longer. I used the PetSafe 5 compartment feeder. It's easy to program the feeder to any time you want. There's also a 2 compartment model but it's very noisy, can only be set in approximate 2 hour increments with a manual dial, and cats can pry the lid off to get to the food.

 I don't think four feedings would be possible, except for weekends. I'm gone from 630-5 during the week, so was planning to feed her one meal in the morning, one in the evening, and another late at night. I'll see how the three feedings a day work and will keep a close eye on her weight. If it's not working for her I will find a way to change up the schedule

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That's kind of what I did when my cats were kittens. My cats got fed at 4am (!), set the feeder with a meal of canned food, off to work by 5:30, come home by 4pm, feed the cats dinner, feed my Aby another 1 oz of food around 7:30pm, feed my Aby another 1 oz of food at bedtime and a spoonful of canned for my DMH. When the cats got to be almost a  year old, they didn't really touch the canned food in the feeder so I stopped leaving them a daytime meal.

She's approximately 9-10ish weeks old (not sure of her age, but she is still quite small).
I think she'll be relatively easy to switch over, as I believe she may have been born feral or at least outside. My friend found her outside, riddled with fleas. When I got her home, it took her a few days to figure out that the kibble was indeed food, so I'm not sure she if she had been fed kibble before. She also didn't seem to know what the litter pan was for, but caught on within a few days and now uses it like a champ .
I'm reluctant to leave raw food out when I'm not around as I can see her taking it and dragging it to all corners of the house .

Mildew said:

She's approximately 9-10ish weeks old (not sure of her age, but she is still quite small).
I think she'll be relatively easy to switch over, as I believe she may have been born feral or at least outside. My friend found her outside, riddled with fleas. When I got her home, it took her a few days to figure out that the kibble was indeed food, so I'm not sure she if she had been fed kibble before. She also didn't seem to know what the litter pan was for, but caught on within a few days and now uses it like a champ

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I'm reluctant to leave raw food out when I'm not around as I can see her taking it and dragging it to all corners of the house

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Thanks for the info.  As for the omega 3s, they are found in animal meat as well.  The catch is that the animal has to have moved around a bit for levels to build.  So, for example, turkey and chicken thighs are much better than breast because of the activity of those body parts.  You are free to feed fish and I am relatively alone on these boards about this but I do not feed fish.  If your rodents have been running around they will be balanced but importantly if you want to add omega 3 either feed grass-fed/grass-finished meat, or if that is not available use omega 3 oils.  The reason to avoid fish is that it is not a large part of a cat's natural diet, the amount of meat that you have to feed in order to get high levels of omega 3 displaces the meat that the cat should be eating, and large amounts of fish can cause a B1 thiamine deficiency.  If the concern is omega 3 it is easier to just put wild salmon oil in the food once or twice a week.

For the raw food being left out - give it a shot and see how it goes!  The issue with not leaving it out is that she has a small stomach at that age and can only fit so much food in there.  Most likely she will just eat what you left out, in which case she will be getting the food quantity that is ideal.  If she is dragging food around the place when you are there, take her plate away for some time so that she knows not to do that.  If she is currently not doing that then you have less to worry about.  My cat never takes food beyond a few inches from her plate, but that behavior could vary between cats.  Good luck and please keep us posted on her progress.

I picked up some of the freeze dried raw, and gave her a few kibbles last night, which she gobbled up . I tried a cut up mouse, but she didn't show any interest (instead she stole a large chunk of my roast beef, ran off, and ate it). I'll pick up some liver and hearts today and start slowly adding it to her wet food. I think I can completely cut out the kibble already as she doesn't get very much anyways, and loves this new stuff.

I started my 3 on raw the day they came home with me at 9 weeks old (and today is their 9 month birthday).. The shelter provided the foster mom with "science diet kitten kibble" and I wanted them off that ASAP.

At only 9 weeks I knew they wouldn't be able to wait to eat till I got home from work with nothing available during the day, so I went the freeze-dried raw route. After they had their completely raw breakfast, I would put out a full dish of the freeze-dried raw when I left and of course it was all gone when I got home and then they got their second completely raw meal. If they seemed like they were a bit hungry when I went to bed, I'd give them a little bit more of the freeze-dried as a treat. I had no problem switching them from the kibble to raw (didn't even offer it), they tucked in to their very first raw meal the day they came home right away.

They're 9 months old today and I'm pretty much down to just the 2 meals a day, don't have to leave the freeze-dried out any more, so just save it for "treats". The vet is thrilled with how they look and their growth. All were about 2 lbs when they came home, at 4 months they were 4 to 4.5 lbs, at 6 months Darby (my littlest, she was the runt of the litter) was 6.14 lbs, her sister Mia was 7.3 lbs and brother Ian was 7.8 lbs (almost 4 lbs in 2 months on RAW only). I took them in again a few days ago for a 9 month weight check and little Darby is now 7.12 lbs, Mia is 8.11 lbs and brother Ian is a whopping 9.5 lbs..

All 3 of them love chicken wings (can't believe they cost more than boneless,skinless chicken breast!!!), chicken thighs, liver (chicken and beef), kidneys (beef), gizzards (chicken & turkey), heart (chicken when I can find & beef), pretty much whatever I can find. I wish I had access to more varieties (especially organs), but seems everywhere I look (even so-called "butchers") only seem to carry what the "people" population want to see on their dinner plates. I've been able to find the beef hearts and kidneys at an oriental market, but choice is still very limited.

So, not trying to shanghai the thread, but if anyone reading this is in the Denver metro area and knows of a good place to buy raw for their babies, could you let me know where. Thanks!!!!

Ian

Darby cuddling on Mia

Love the glossy coats .

I picked up some chicken wings, hearts, gizzards, and liver today to try her on. I put a few tidbits down and crumbled a piece of freeze dried overtop- she gobbled them right up and seemed to enjoy herself . I think it may be easier to switch her to a frankenprey diet first, then slowly start adding some pieces of whole prey in once she's used to the raw. How many days should I take to switch her off the wet food?

What are good items to use in the frankenprey diet? Would shrimp, squid, and octopus be ok to use on occasion as treats? My lizards get them once a month and I can always pick up an extra for her if it's suitable

:rub:

When my 3 came home, I switched them immediately to raw (some commercial frozen and some prey model). Because they were so young (9 weeks), they had no problem devouring anything I gave them (they'd been on dry kibble until I brought them home).

So, I honestly wouldn't even worry about transitioning from the wet food, just switch your baby over. The younger they are, the easier. Of course you don't want to waste the wet you've got. You can gradually reduce what you're giving till you finish what you have, or maybe just save it for an "emergency" (you've forgotten to take something out to thaw, couldn't get to the store, etc). But really, I wouldn't worry about it.

You want as much variety as you can give them, heart, gizzards, etc are considered muscle meat, not organs.. the only thing I seem to be able to find for organs are kidneys (which is why I'm asking if anyone local knows where to get other types), Liver is separate from organs (again different types are good). Wings, back and necks are good for bone. I'd stay away from the seafood, not really something that's good for a kitty.