Advice please - FIP or not?

zoneout

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I dont know about steroid side-effects.   I would advise you to do some google research on whatever the med was to find more info.   

My other thought was that a bad gum/tooth infection could be contributing to the constant low-grade fever as his body tries to fight it off.   

Curious as to what they wanted to do to treat the gum infection.   Steroids isnt a treatment for that I am pretty sure.   Temporary fix would be antibiotic.  Permanent would be dental treatment.

At the least, its good that he got some food into him.
 
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goholistic

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How is Arthur today? It might still be worth getting the toxoplasmosis test done, as that can cause neurological symptoms, as well as the other symptoms you've mentioned (fever, lethargy, loss of appetite). You can get the toxo test by itself of you could go with something like the Idexx "Feline Serology Panel 3", which tests for bartonella, FeLV, FIV, coronavirus, and toxoplasmosis.
 
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izzi81

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Well yesterday we stopped the steroids, and he seemed better. The unsteadiness and trouble walking had gone, he was playing with his sister and looked pretty good. When we got up this morning he was also still ok. He spent most of the day sleeping, but when he woke up the unsteadiness and head tilting was totally back. Some of his jumping strength has come back - thanks to the food yesterday I think - but he has real trouble getting around. He's also not eaten anything at all today. It's sad to see him looking so sad :-(
I'm now presuming the unsteadiness wasn't a reaction to the steroids, but a coincidence. I have heard, if it's FIP, that prednisolone can help with neurological problems walking, so I think we might give it another go. We have oral painkillers to give him but he hates it; I'm sure most of it goes elsewhere :-( much prefer pills...

I don't know what to think now, I was thinking it was something other than FIP, now I'm not so sure. Some of the symptoms match, some don't....
 

zoneout

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Whatever it is he needs nourishment to keep his strength up.   You are going to need to buy time in order to figure out what the problem is.   

1) He has an issue with his teeth.  Do they need to be extracted?   Will the pain allow him to eat if they are not treated?

2) What is the status of the sand/grit/clumping litter in his GI system?   Has it resolved on it`s own?

3) The vet didnt know about toxoplasmosis so to him it doesn`t exist.   This is not a valid approach to the problem.   I would suggest phoning other vets and ask them on the phone if they have experience testing for this disease.   Dont let these people intimidate you - if they cannot tell you over the phone and want you to come in to discuss it that is a red flag.
 
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izzi81

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Hi everyone, I thought I'd share a bit of an update.
Arthur has been on orednisolone for a week now, and his instability is just about gone. He can trot and even run about outside now when before he couldn't even walk. He can also jump again; not back to full strength but again, he could do nothing before.

His appetite is slowly coming back as well, we were ready to give him something to get him eating but we're not going to now as he seems to be improving on his own.

We don't know about the grit situation, except that none of the vets who have physically examined him have felt anything out of the ordinary, so we think it's passed on its own.
Re. His teeth, the plan was to take a look / X-ray when he was being neutered, but that's been delayed what with the FIP possibility. The gum redness has improved, the vet said some of his teeth hadn't come through as he would expect them to, so there's something a bit odd there.

My problem now it how to proceed. We're on vet no.2, who came recommended, but I have my doubts. He doesn't seem to know about testing for toxo (as I said), and also said if he had toxo he'd be a lot sicker now - I don't know if this is true. He also said we couldn't give Arthur prednisolone if he has toxo as it can cause problems, but I've read online that prednisolone can be a treatment for toxo.

The vet said we shouldn't think about neutering until hes off the steroids, but I don't know if he ever will be. We're also going on holiday in January and need to think about booking care for him, but the vet didn't really want to consider this as, if it's FIP, he seems to think he might not be around then!

We live in a rural area and it's hard to find vet options, but it's really frustrating when they can't say what's going on, don't have any experience with FIP or toxo and don't seem keen to do tests. I hate questioning their judgement, but I don't know what else to do!
I found this online:

In an attempt to try to make the best diagnosis we can while the cat is still alive, we can follow these criteria for a cat with clinical signs of FIP:

The cat has a low number of lymphocytes: 1.5x103 cells/µl.
The cat has a positive FCoV test result (titer > 1:160).
The cat has elevated globulins in his blood > 5.1 gm/dl.

If the cat meets all three criteria, the probability the cat has FIP is 88.9%. If the cat does NOT meet all three criteria, the probability the cat does NOT have FIP is 98.8%.


I know Arthur doesn't have 2 of those - low lymphocytes and elevated globulins - and we've not tested for FCoV. Makes me wonder if it's not FIP but something else...
 

zoneout

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I think you answered your own question.   Not having 2 of the markers means 99% probability it is not FIP which in any case is a rare occurrance.

The issue with being on a steroid is that it can mask the symptoms of certain diseases so diagnosis becomes more difficult.

It is certainly good that Arthur is showing improvement.    I would only suggest to be careful of putting him in a stressful situation until he is healthy.   That means I would definitely avoid neutering him for now.   He is going to have to rely on his immune system to fight this thing until or if you get a diagnosis.    Therefore stress is something to be avoided.
 
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izzi81

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Thanks for the reply. I hope you are right.. it's hard to be objective, and even harder when our vets are not that useful!

The steroids seem to be helping with his appetite at the moment, which I think is the most important thing, he was getting very thin and it was clear he didn't have enough energy to do things. Now he's starting to eat when he wants to, still not as much as I'd like but it's a start. Once he's put on some weight then we could try reducing the steroids and seeing what happens...

I can see the sense in holding off neutering. We'll get his sister done (so there's nothing untoward going on!!) but we'll see how he does.

I've read a lot online about FIP being rare, but then I read in FIP groups about so many people who have lost cats to it. It does make me wonder how often it's actually FIP, and how often it's something else. I hope Arthur has something else and recovers :-)
 

zoneout

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Are his teeth/gums making him avoid eating? Look at his behavior. Does he eagerly go to the food dish or even cry for food but then stop just when he is about to dig in?

If he has trouble chewing maybe water down his food to a consistency he can lap up.
 

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I was just told one of my barely two year old cats, Ayesha, probably has FIP and I'm ABSOLUTELY devastated. I also have 3 others that I adopted at the same time and I'm going off the deep end wondering if they'll come down with it as well. I am so glad to find a forum where I can express how horrible I really feel - especially having lost two other cats to cancer just before I adopted these babies. I feel guilty about leaving the house and don't feel like socializing at all when I do go out. I honestly can't see my depression over Ayesha and anxiety for my other three ever ending. I love all my cats SO much, but there are moments when I wish I'd never adopted them because the emotional pain and fear are unbearable.
 

zoneout

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Your feelings are very understandable.   We become super attached to these little furry creatures.   We go in into these relationships hoping for nothing but good times forever.   But life is not always like that.   There are disappointments, hurt, fear, and loss.   These are things we sometimes have to face.   It takes inner strength to get through the tough times.   Talking it through helps.    Feel free to express what you are going through here.   Most of us have walked the same road you travel on now.   We can walk with you on your journey and give you a shoulder to lean on.

Please note that FIP is not contagious.   I hope Ayesha doesn`t have it but if she does the others are not in danger from her.

I wish you peace and strength and hope all works out for the best.
 

catmom69

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THANK YOU so-o-o much for your kindness and understanding. Until I found this site I thought I would go out of my mind bearing my pain and depression on my own. I, of course, wouldn't wish what I'm going through on my worst enemy, but
having someone tell me they understand means more than I can say!! I will no doubt still cry myself to sleep every night for the time being, but
 

catmom69

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Sorry, my phone often seems to have a will of its own. Anyway, having someone who cares gives me at least a ray of hope of one day being whole and happy again!
 
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izzi81

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Catmom69 - I felt just like that when they told me Arthur had FIP. I was devastated. My partner, who has always wanted a dog, said that he didn't any more because it was too painful when something bad happens. But i would recommend a second opinion from another vet, and make sure you try treatment options. We have gone from thinking Arthur was days from being out down to being able to play with him outside and looking forward to Christmas, we still don't know what he has, and it may be FIP, but with everything I've read it's so hard to diagnose I wouldn't give up on your cat until you *know* it's time.

Arthur is doing well on the prednisolone, he is eating a lot more (though has a way to go to put back the weight he lost) and I has much more energy and is more playful. We're really hoping it's something he can fight off...
 

timeforaction

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I was just advised at the vets that my cat most likely has FIP.  It has been a horrid 2.5 weeks. My other cat (Cream Puff) had to be put down a couple weeks ago.  I was perhaps so focused on her that I did not pick up that something was amiss with my male cat, Captain Picat (inset photo).  I took him in when he stopped eating and they discovered he was constipated, badly.  Through enemas and subcutaneous fluids, that cleared but after taking him home, he still would not eat and his breathing was irregular.  I could syringe feed him, but he would not eat himself. I had blood work done that came back okay (but not sure what tests they did).  He was prescribed some meds in case his throat was irritated/swollen/infected (prednisolone and clavamox.  Nothing changed so I asked for a chest/throat xray yesterday. (two - before and after - of the gastro-intestinal area were done prior to the constipation and to be sure it was cleared).   I received a shocker though when I asked for the third xray yesterday, as the results showed a significant fluid buildup in his lungs and was told it was highly likely it was FIP (or a tumour be he seemed less convinced of that).  What was a little strange through is the vet said he could see a bit of the lung in the prior xray results and that the lungs at that time did not look that bad so that it had to get worse very quickly  in terms of fluid buildup.  (about a week between xrays.  It was stated that if it was FIP things could change drastically and quickly for the worse, (meaning likely over the last week, but also in the future.) He did mention putting one of hi own cats with FIP on a diuretic although if it was FIP and it helped, it would only 'buy some time' as it is a fatal disease.  (I most certainly learned THAT with my incessant online research.0  But since there was no definitive diagnosis and I was swayed by the possibility of hope, the vet gave kitty an injection to try to flush fluids from his system, and then a diuretic pill to keep it up for several days, in order to see if it would help. I was so stressed I cannot recall, but for some reason, he did not want to drain the fluid off the lungs.  I wish now there had been a sample taken, as apparently if it is quite yellow, it is a sign of FIP.  Something about a risk of some sort at this stage was the reason given as to not draining it.  I honestly was so stressed I can't recall exactly what was said. 

So issues/treatment to date on a kitty I took in 2 years ago, history unknown and health great until this experience.  (And now, I may never know if there is a relationship illness between Captain and Cream Puff, as she was likely much older (again a guess as both were strays), and her health had always been more unpredictable. 

Constipation - enemas, subcutaneous fluids, and due to throat issues, put on clavamov and prednisolone.  Before and after abdominally focused xrays. First showing heavy constipation and back up (but not megacolon) and the second showing the colon had cleared.  Has continued to poop although not as regular (probably taking is less food via syringe)

Continued eating/breathing/appetite issues.  Maintained prednisolone script. 

No change really, so asked for chest xray yesterday (Jan 30). That is when the fluid buildup showed.  I think there was so much focus on the constipation that the rest was overlooked.  

A question or two.  Does it seem likely that constipation and FIP would happen at the same time? 

Anyone else have an experience anything like this?  
 
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catpack

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Was a CBC Chem run on Captain Picat? If this bloodwork came back normal, I'd be less inclined to think FIP and more so to think HCM or a cardiac issue.

Typically with FIP fluid collects in the abdomen first, though it's not always the case.

As far as constipation...
It really depends in what organs are affected by FIP; but, diarrhea is certainly a much more common symptom.

You always have the option to run a Coronavirus titer test. This doesn't give a diagnosis, just says whether he has been exposed to the virus or not (most cats have.) If he has not been exposed, then FIP can be ruled out. Do not that testing positive for Coronavirus does NOT mean he has FIP.

The biggest thing about FIP is that is can present differently in each cat and can mimick other illnesses/diseases. It is most commonly seen in kittens under 12 mo old; but, I personally lost a cat at the age of 3 1/2. (Found him in a storm drain at 4-5 wks of age...he lived exclusively indoors after that.)

I sincerely hope that Captain Picat does not have FIP and can make a full recovery.
 

timeforaction

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They ran what I believe was 'regular' bloodwork on him so may have missed some things.  At the time, following treatment for the constipation, the assumption was things would return to normal. When they did not, I started asking questions and had the above noted bloodwork done and then the xray.

I did call the vet back today and some of the FIP markers are not there (i..e increased protein levels) but until they get fluid redirected from his lungs (diuretic shot/pills) they did not want to test the fluid as in the xray, they literally could not even see the shadow of his heart and were worried about puncturing it.  

Odd you mentioned cardiomyopathy.  I looked up 'Ragdoll' issues and darn it all if that is not the first thing that came up, as well as the fact that they do not typically have a long life span. (Approx ten years).  He was a found stray who appeared primarily ragdoll, and they guessed at his age being 6 to 8 two years ago when we took him in, but they also said he could be older but that he in fact looked like he had been well cared for.  (Adverts did not produce an owner, though,when I tried to find his home).  

So now I am researching this other health issue just in case you are in fact on the right path, although I oddly did come across that info right before reading your post. So stressful. (heart condition, I mean)

Here is a video of my pets (and the little tabby is my son's). This was at Christmas time.  Things can change SO fast. The white one (Cream Puff) is gone, the milk dabbing cat is the one in crisis, and believe it or not, the pooch (Kiara) has a growth in her eye.  It just seems to be non-stop. 


Cathy
 
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catpack

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Hopefully the diuretic will help take the fluid off.

There is a blood test called a Pro-BNP that detects a certain protein that is released when there is a cardiac issue. It takes about 3 days to get results back. Might be something to consider if Captain Picat is stabilized on the current treatment protocol. A heart echo is another option as well if you have access; but, the fluid in the lungs would need to be reduced enough to get a clear picture.
 
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