or Connect
TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › Dog Fight in Court Over Length of Spaniel's Tail
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Dog Fight in Court Over Length of Spaniel's Tail

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
While I understand the concept of a breed standard, I am P.O.'ed about the declawing comment.

ALBANY, New York (Reuters) - New York's highest court heard arguments on Wednesday in the case of a man who has refused to cut his dog's tail for national competitions.
Manhattan dog owner John Hammer wants the Court of Appeals to reinstate his suit against the American Kennel Club and the American Brittany Club which seeks to bar them from enforcing a 1926 breed standard for judging spaniels that takes points off for dogs with tails longer than four inches (10 cm).

Hammer contends that the "docked-tail" standard violates state law against intentionally injuring an animal and constitutes illegal discrimination because his dog's tail is 10 inches (25 cm). Lower courts have dismissed his complaints.

"These organizations encourage you to be cruel to animals and they punish you if you aren't," Hammer's attorney, Joseph Foley, told the six-judge panel.

The AKC and ABC both contend that the procedure maintains breed standards and protects the animal when it participates in either mock or real hunting expeditions.

"We are not perverted minds and we love animals," AKC attorney Dale Christensen told the court.

ABC attorney Debra Resnick said if the court ruled in favor of Hammer it will open a flood of lawsuits against the 145 other breed clubs in the country.

"It would be like making declawing a cat an act of cruelty," she said.

If a puppy's tail is too long, a breeder can tightly wrap rubber bands around it until the blood circulation is cut off and the rest of the tail "dies," Hammer said in explaining the trimming process.

Animal rights groups and activists across the country have donated money to his legal defense fund and sent hundreds of letters of support and several affidavits.

"I have affidavits from hunters who say that the longer tail is needed for communicating," Hammer said.

The Airedale Terrier Club of America and 10 other breed clubs have filed briefs in support of the AKC and ABC.
post #2 of 13
Cropping ears and docking tails have been illegal here for a number of years (as has declawing), and I can't think of a single breed that doesn't look better for it. I don't know why clubs have to maintain such unnatural, cruel standards.
post #3 of 13
I thought when these clubs referred as "standards" they meant the characteristics that describe the purity of the breed. If your dog doesn't have these in competition, it follows a loss of points. Why maim the animal just so you don't lose points?
That Resnick woman obviously is a misguided fool. I wonder if she has pets? Poor animals if she does!
I don't believe Christensen about loving animals either.
post #4 of 13
off!! The whole mess could very easily be solved by permitting dogs in the show ring ummm... they way they were born AND (here's a thought) and surgically altered if that's the way owners prefer them. Why should the AKC discriminate against dogs because they happen to have the ears and tail they were born with? Have two classes, one for croppped and docked and one for au natural!

As far as the declaw comment goes, de-clawing IS Cruelty to animals as far as I am concerned.
post #5 of 13
As I see it, competing in dog shows is a voluntary thing. The rules and standards are public and published for everyone to see, and if you don't like them then don't compete. All 5 of my dogs are mixed breeds, so they can't compete in these shows, but I'm not out trying to sue over that (besides, they're all spay/neutered - another disqualifier). They also aren't allowed in AKC agility competition (one is quite good at agility.) I'm not trying to sue over this either.

I wouldn't dock the tail myself, but I would also accept that would eliminate the dog from these competitions. I really hate when people decide they don't like the rules of a "sport" and think the courts should get involved and change the rules for their benifit. The courts have absolutely no place in deciding competition rules.

post #6 of 13
While I would agree with the courts not getting involved in competion rules in a general sense, there's another issue here. I personally think tail and ear docking sounds cruel. I know that my cats' ears and tails are very sensitive, I can't imagine making them go through possibly painful steps just for pure surface astetics. How do we know that Spaniels don't have recurring pain in their tails thereafter?
post #7 of 13
Personally, I'm appalled by ear cropping & tail docking, and I wish the AKC would change its standards so people who don't wish to mutilate their pets could still show them. Showing dogs is done to find the most desirable traits in a breed, and the dogs who win are seen as desirable breeding stock, to improve the breed - that's why dogs that are altered are ineligible. I fail to see how docking tails and cropping ears improves the dog. It may have been necessary back when certain breeds of dogs were used for fighting, but dog fighting is illegal now. I have heard arguments that tail docking can prevent a broken tail in dogs chasing through heavy brush, but personally I would think it's better to have a tail for steering & maneuvering.

Have you ever heard of MBDCA - the Mixed Breed Dog Clubs of America? You can show a mixed breed dog with them, and enter obedience & agility contests, too.
post #8 of 13
If some organisation decided to tell me how I should disfigure my pets so that they remain happy, I'd be infuriated. There is something breeders should remember, genetics is not a well understood science nor in anyone's control. Just because you breed two purebreds with papers indicating parenting and heritage, there is no guarantee that the pairing will result in show animals or what is accepted as a standard breed. It is only a probability. Theory may try to dictate 100%, in our unperfect world, anything can happen.

Just accept animals for what they are and leave it at that.
post #9 of 13
I must admit that when I got Ceasar I had his ears cropped after a lot of debate about it I now know that I will never do that to an animal again I was so upset when I saw what pain he was in and the vet told me that he would be fine and not to worry about his pain. Well after a good reeming the vet decided that Ceasar should have pain management until his ears healed. I could kick myself in the @ss everytime I think about it. I do have to admit that I really like the look of his ears now, but would never put another animal through that again.

Meet Morris' Julis Ceasar Mamma's Little Man
post #10 of 13
This was my childhood dog Frijole - a Boston Terrier. This is how they look with uncropped ears. Personally, I think they're cuter natural. Her feline buddy in the photo was Clarence.

BTW, Ceasar is a cutie pie : It's sad the vet wasn't honest with you.
post #11 of 13
blondiecat, is Caesar a mini Pincher? From the photo, he doesn't look a full sized one. I think Mini Pinchers are so cute. Actually I think regular sized Dobermans are beautiful as well, it's just that I'm kind of scared of them.
post #12 of 13
Other than spaying/neutering, I think that dogs and cats should be left the way that God made 'em.

My parents have a Great Dane and he has floppy ears and a tail and he'll die with them.

They DID have to get a tail docked, once - Freckles wagged her tail and whacked it on something, fracturing a bone. It became gangrenous and the tail had to be amputated. This was a life-saving measure, though.
post #13 of 13
Originally posted by HopeHacker
blondiecat, is Caesar a mini Pincher? From the photo, he doesn't look a full sized one. I think Mini Pinchers are so cute. Actually I think regular sized Dobermans are beautiful as well, it's just that I'm kind of scared of them.
That is right Hope, Ceasar is a registered Minature Pinscher I went to get a Yorkie from the breeder and then Ceasar's Dad came flying out of the house. I knew right then that I wanted one of them. Ceasar is full a grown dog(6years) and weighs 8lbs. I love my rotten little boy
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: IMO: In My Opinion
TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › Dog Fight in Court Over Length of Spaniel's Tail