Starting an argument about castration

Hello everyone So, my cat got spayed 3 days ago and after thinking about it....I kind of feel I was pressured by all the topics pro castration and all the posts on here and how it prevents diseases. So I was thinking over the past days and idk maybe spaying wasn't the right decision?

1) spaying decreases chance of cancer : Well, it's obvious that if the organ is removed chances of cancer in that organ are going to be eliminated!! But that doesn't mean that unaltered cats are all going to get cancer!!! It may happen...But it also might not! So if I'm afraid of getting colon cancer for example, i should have my colon removed? NO! (Holds true for other illnesses as well)( just like with humans. Might happen. Might not)

2) decreases cat population : so the cat's rate of reproduction is just something it has by nature, not human induced right? Which means if no humans were around, cats are still gonna be reproducing as fast and as often as they are now which we are trying to "limit" and "control". If we keep spaying and neutering are cats and TNR campaigns keep going on, isn't the population eventually going to decrease drastically and cause an imbalance? I know cats suffer on the streets and it's so heartbreaking. I have rescued and took care of street cats before and I know how they are suffering. BUT people in some countries in Africa and the world are suffering as well..and hundreds die everyday of hunger, the lack of fresh water and diseases. Should we go castrate these people so their suffering stops? ABSOLUTELY NOT! why would that be considered inhumane for them but perfectly okay for cats? Why don't we try and do what we do with humans? We try to help those humans by providing Medical care, food and fresh water right?! Why aren't there campaigns and fundraisers for cats? If people start actually learning more and helping feral cats in their area, no feral cat would be suffering anymore! If people would give food and water everything would be fine! And instead of TNR..why not TTR ( trap, treat, release)! All cats would be healthy and content! (On a side note : animals in the wild die of diseases, fights, and hunger as well, it's natural selection) (another alternative would be putting the cats to good use, there is actually a shelter that relocates cats in factories and places with mice problems to control the mice there)

3) male cats gathering and spraying outside your house : well what if I live in an apartment and there's basically no way my cat would be able to escape?

So, if you take those points into consideration, the only pros left is that the cat will stop constantly going into heat cycles and males will stop spraying. Now I know the spraying is pretty much an enough argument to castrate BUT I think our relationship with our cats is that of respect. It is an animal by nature and you knew that when you adopted it so isn't it a bit unfair to be molding the animal to fit our lifestyle instead of respecting that animal and it's nature and coping with it?/finding other alternatives?

In my opinion if we absolutely must castrate our cats, there should a STERILISATION (with the reproductive organs preserved) option, as opposed to castration which involves the removal of an entire organ!! After all, sex hormones like testosterone and estrogen don't only have the function of reproduction.

But then again maybe I'm wrong and my way of looking at this is wrong as well with the whole giving human like qualities to animals(cats). But you can't help but think that way after seeing how intelligent they are and how they're capable of showing emotions and think.

*(Not writing angrily if it seemed so. It's an argument and I would love if you all share your thoughts too)*

Sorry for the long post but just some stuff I was thinking about lately. I would love to hear your opinions! What points are you with/against and why?

Are you regretting having your cat spayed?  Or do you just feel upset that you made the decision before you were sure that it was the best one for you and your cat?

I've neutered or spayed all my pets over the years.  I don't regret it.  I feel it is the ethical choice. When I think of all the kittens and cats that are put to sleep at shelters every year, it breaks my heart.  And that doesn't take into account stray cats, which are estimated to be around 70 million in the US alone.  Stray animals don't live as long and are often malnourished or sick. That is enough of a reason for me to do it.  Ethics aside, this is the world we live in.  It's not a theoretical issue.  I googled the ASPCA site and found out that over 2.4 million cats and dogs are put down in US shelters every year.  7.6 companion animals enter shelters every year.  These are unwanted and abandoned.  Why add to the problem or take the risk of it? 

I do feel that my relationship with my cats was probably improved by spaying and neutering, too.  They are quite happy being indoor cats, and don't moan about getting out to cruise for mates.  I think they are less aggressive when they are fixed, too. 

Regardless, I'm sorry that you're struggling with your choice a bit, and I hope you find peace around your decision to spay soon. 

 

A cat that goes into heat over and over again without being bred is in a constant state of physical and emotional stress and will lose body condition. I don't think anyone who truly loves their cat wants to see them constantly stressed-out and agitated. No-one who truly loves their cat would let them have litter upon litter of kittens, either, creating many more homeless animals. Having litter upon litter of kittens will also cause your cat to lose body condition and will shorten her lifespan. When it comes to pet cats, spaying and neutering helps to keep them healthy and to prolong their lives.

Cats in the wild, if humans were removed, would continue to breed, that's true, and that's also our fault. We loved these little guys so much, we brought them everywhere with us. Out of their original habitat, they're an invasive species, and if they were all allowed to breed unchecked, native species would be threatened and may even become extinct.

So it is to the benefit of everyone to have our cats spayed and neutered, not simply a convenience to us.

I think you forgot one point on your list.

4. The thousands of cats who are put to death in shelters everyday.

Cats are overpopulated due to ignorance, or carelessness by humans. There is no other to blame than us. Yes, it's in their nature to procreate, but that is something inherent to their DNA. They procreate often to further their species.

Ideally all cats would come from breeders and those cats would be fixed before the sale. Instead we have people not fixing their cats and when kittens are born they give the unfixed kittens to perfect strangers in front of Walmart. Then those kittens have kittens...

The cycle continues... Rinse and repeat...

The term "castration" does not apply to females. It literally means to remove the testicles. It's also called neutering. With females cats it is called sterilization, or spaying. (Sterilization really applies to both sexes.)


I really don't care to argue any of this,further. No hard feelings intended, but when I hear some of the things you posted earlier, I cringe.


If you really want to test your resolve regarding your earlier statements, go and volunteer at your local animal shelter for a few hours a day for a week.

I got my kitten from a shelter and she was spayed at 9.5 weeks old. It is the law here. I wish I had the option of waiting until she grew some. I would have preferred to have it done at 5-6 months old as I believe the hormones are important for development.

One tiny seed of upset remains for me in the fact that dogs are selectively bred for many traits and cats only seem to be bred for beauty "pure bred status" etc. I think my current cat is the sweetest cat I have ever known and very calm, smart, and easy to live with. Allowing her to breed would have made some very cool domestic kittys. But it is not a risk I am willing to take-as I may not be able to find homes for them all.

By sterilizing so many domesticated cats we do risk decreasing the overall progress and improvements of the species. Pure breds are never as healthy as mutts and that is basic science. Forcing certain cats to mate is NOT what nature intended.

Nature intended the "fittest" to mate creating superior offspring. We are interfering with breeding and sterilization.

If you love animals you spay and neuter. There currently is no other logical option.

yoohoora bigperm20 I'm not regretting it, I just feel upset I felt pressured and didn't think this over

It does break my heart as well that so many animals are put down and suffer since I have loved animals my entire life! But why are they put to sleep! For having no space? Why not treat them and release them? You're right, as long as no one changes and everything stays the same, there might be no better choice but to castrate. But if people help and raise awareness I think there might be another option especially since their rate of reproduction is perfectly natural for them. And by sterilisation I meant stopping the hormones but keeping the organ. Thanks for sharing your opinions

chromium blues I was actually wondering what if you let the cat go into heat without being bred. I did not know that since my cat was spayed right after her first cycle. Thanks for sharing your opinion

slykat12 yeah but I just wish there were other options

uniqms95 said:

yoohoora bigperm20 I'm not regretting it, I just feel upset I felt pressured and didn't think this over

It does break my heart as well that so many animals are put down and suffer since I have loved animals my entire life! But why are they put to sleep! For having no space? Why not treat them and release them?

Click to expand...

Because then the go to live in feral colonies and have kittens who grow up as unsocialized wild animals. Then they kill off the bird population, and generally wreck havoc on the local ecosystems.

The cats we own today were domesticated from wild cats. Specifically the African Wild Cat, native to the deserts of Northern Africa. This harsh environment made it very tough to survive due to lack of food and environmental issues. Therefore the cats had to procreate often to continue their species.

In our temperate, plentiful environment they thrive and kill everything around them.

The point is we domesticated the animals, we are responsible for their wellbeing. We are also responsible the environment in which we live.

uniqms95 said:

@YoohooRa @bigperm20 I'm not regretting it, I just feel upset I felt pressured and didn't think this over

It does break my heart as well that so many animals are put down and suffer since I have loved animals my entire life! But why are they put to sleep! For having no space? Why not treat them and release them? You're right, as long as no one changes and everything stays the same, there might be no better choice but to castrate. But if people help and raise awareness I think there might be another option especially since their rate of reproduction is perfectly natural for them. And by sterilisation I meant stopping the hormones but keeping the organ. Thanks for sharing your opinions

@Chromium Blues I was actually wondering what if you let the cat go into heat without being bred. I did not know that since my cat was spayed right after her first cycle. Thanks for sharing your opinion

@Slykat12 yeah but I just wish there were other options

Click to expand...

I think it might help you feel better about your decision if you did some research on the issue. And trust your gut that it led you to get your kitty spayed in the first place. You must have felt it was the right thing to do when you went into your vet's. A lot of steps went into getting your kitty spayed that started with you putting her into a carrier and taking her to the vet's for the surgery.  It was not an impulsive decision in the sense that it took planning.  It's also important to remember that if it was not ethical or appropriate, your vet wouldn't have performed the surgery.  There are animal protection laws and ethical boards that supervise vets, too.  Why not talk to both them and your vet about your misgivings? It might make you feel better in the long run.

I personally believe you did the right thing by your kitty, but I do hear you say that you are not so sure.  Again, I hope you find some peace around your decision.

If you really want to test your resolve regarding your earlier statements, go and volunteer at your local animal shelter for a few hours a day for a week.

Click to expand...

YoohooRa said:

 
I think it might help you feel better about your decision if you did some research on the issue. And trust your gut that it led you to get your kitty spayed in the first place. You must have felt it was the right thing to do when you went into your vet's. A lot of steps went into getting your kitty spayed that started with you putting her into a carrier and taking her to the vet's for the surgery.  It was not an impulsive decision in the sense that it took planning.  It's also important to remember that if it was not ethical or appropriate, your vet wouldn't have performed the surgery.  There are animal protection laws and ethical boards that supervise vets, too.  Why not talk to both them and your vet about your misgivings? It might make you feel better in the long run.

I personally believe you did the right thing by your kitty, but I do hear you say that you are not so sure.  Again, I hope you find some peace around your decision.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, veterinarians do things that are unethical and inappropriate all the time. They still declaw on a regular basis, for instance, dock tails, crop ears, and debark. All of these things should be illegal. Spaying and neutering is one of the most ethical things your veterinarian will do for your pet, and I'm so glad you did.

And by sterilisation I meant stopping the hormones but keeping the organ.

Click to expand...

There isn't any way to leave the organs but stop the hormones. You can prevent reproduction with, for instance, a tubal ligation or vasectomy, but the hormones will remain. For dogs, I actually think this is a good thing (especially for males. . .I'm undecided on females as pyometra is so common), but for animals who reproduce so frequently, such as cats and rabbits, this isn't really good for them. Because their bodies are designed to reproduce frequently, when they're prevented from reproducing, something usually goes wrong.

And if you didn't prevent them from reproducing. . .well, what would YOU do with 12 kittens a year? I think we'd be up to our ears in cats if they weren't prevented from reproducing. Now, if humans hadn't created an artificially safe environment by feeding and vetting our cats, and discouraging wild predators from living around humans, the population would probably be kept in check naturally. But with nutritious food, vaccinations, other disease-preventing measures, and protection from predators, that's just a recipe for an out-of-control population boom. In short, pets are thoroughly unnatural. If we keep pets, we need to control their populations because their offspring would have unnaturally high survival rates.

Also remember---effective and readily available birth control is considered a basic human right around the world. In places where it isn't readily available, women are more easily abused and exploited, and their lifespans are much reduced. If we wish to keep our female pets comfortable and safe, they also need effective birth control.

People also are fully aware that sexual activity results in pregnancy. cats are not. They act purely on instinct. In the past when cats were basically imported on ships the population was small. yes, there are feral cats. Many of the were pets turned out to the streets. populations of cats grew far bigger and will continue to grow bigger. House cats now live far longer than they used to due to better food and vet care. There is not, and never will be welfare or Medicaid for cats. left to their own devices, having litter after litter cats will die of disease.

 Male cats do not only spray outside the house. They spray inside the house.female cats spray also. An unspayed female cat will also make ungodly noise. If NOT fixing your cats becomes the norm can you imagine landlords renting to people with cats? Can you imagine neighbors being thrilled to have a bunch of roaming, spraying mating and screaming cats in their yards?

You are possibly right about the effects of spay /neuter of cats. I read a book by a scientist who studied cats for 30 years. It is called  Cat Sense. The author predicts that with the majority of owners fixing their cats and the growing success of TNR our future house cat population will not evolve as pets. They will devolve because the best temperament for a pet is a cat born and raised the first 8 weeks in a home.Ferall kittens are not quite as social as house born kittens. He feels that in a few decades the litters of kitten available for adoption will primarily be acquired from those Very feral cats who do not occupy colonies and thus evade TNR. Those kittens will not be as evolved to make good pets. He also said that breeders primarily breed for look and not temperament with the exception being Ragdoll and Ragamuffin breeders( his statement , not mine). His point is that the future of cats as a pleasant house companion may be at stake. It is sad as there are no easy answers. unfortunately for the cat, their popularity has grown faster than they can evolve as house pets.Anywho, I would not live with an unneutered cat , and not fixing them for the most part is unacceptable considering that there not near enough homes for the cats already living.

Those claims regarding cat evolution seem awfully bold. I venture that cats will continue to evolve as we evolve. Eventually human kind will begin to realize that this planet and the animals here are not a doormat.

Hopefully (before it's too late) people will begin to understand that it's to our benefit to take care of the planet and it's inhabitants. We had better or our grandchildren will have nothing left to call home.

As far as cats of the future I'd say ideally all cats will come from breeders as it will most likely be legally required to spay and neuter your animals. As genetic engineering will eventually be mainstream, I'd say those breeders will be able to better control the temperaments of their animals.

Spaying and neutering help keep our kitties healthier.

I wish you could see the cat issues here in sacramento CA.

I swear week to week there are new cats outside. I know there's a neighbor trapping them - and he was taking them to the shelter (who we were presumably putting them down... They put down domestic kittens 75% of the time they're brought in, higher in spring and late summer). Now the shelter won't even accept trapped ferals. I don't know if he's releasing them somewhere else or just killing them, but I've seen him leave with a cat in a cage past when all the shelters are closed anyway.
There is TNR here, but it is only on the last Sunday every month. This means you have to rely on trapping them the night before, two days before max.

There is so much disease for them... Most kittens get hit by cars. I hate seeing the little bodies.
None of the cats ever die of old age though, the population here is constantly rotating. If I see the same cat alive a year after I saw it originally, it's rare. Most don't last coming into the area for 4 months. Even those TNR'd. You see them come back with their ear tipped and they're lucky to still be around 6 months later.

You can look at craigslist here at any given time and not counting rescue posts, there are 60+ ads for the week, most for litters of kittens. Poorly bred, sickly, all variety.

Just because it's not "ok" to tell people they can't have 10 kids shoudnt make it okay for them to have them anyway. Common sense should be used, but so many don't use it.

Trust me, you did the right thing. Your female cat will be happier without having to go thru the heat cycles. You will be happier too, since female cats in heat are very loud. If you have any doubts, go to your local county shelter, and ask how many cats and kittens are put down each year because there aren't enough homes for them.

bigperm20 said:

Those claims regarding cat evolution seem awfully bold. I venture that cats will continue to evolve as we evolve. Eventually human kind will begin to realize that this planet and the animals here are not a doormat.

Hopefully (before it's too late) people will begin to understand that it's to our benefit to take care of the planet and it's inhabitants. We had better or our grandchildren will have nothing left to call home.

As far as cats of the future I'd say ideally all cats will come from breeders as it will most likely be legally required to spay and neuter your animals. As genetic engineering will eventually be mainstream, I'd say those breeders will be able to better control the temperaments of their animals.

Click to expand...

Bold hahaha it is basic science that I teach ty. Backed up by 100 years of research and peer reviewed journals There are two forces driving evolution (adaptation and sexual selection) feel free to google and explore yourself. Cats will not evolve as intended because we are de-sexing them and we force them to breed with animals genetically similar to them rather than diverse as nature intended. In addition, we tend to breed for beauty not brains or loving temperament.

I agree we need to take care of our planet and it's creatures but stating a fact that some of our interference is positive-some negative is simply that.

I am not sure about trusting breeders. Breeders are in a business to make money and they force animals to mate that may not choose each other in the wild and you better believe they dump many cats at shelters.  They also force preferred cats to have tons of litters.  They care about is profit not the animals health-it is inherent in all businesses.  If we were to go that way strong government controls need be on the breeder and extensive training given in genetics, evolution, anthropology, ethics etc. Currently, I know of little regulation on them at least in my country and state.   

I just noticed in the first sentence you say (bold) as if not agreeing. Then you agree in the last sentence weird.

Anyhoo, this is a cat site. I will take my intellectual stuff over to more appropriate sites and leave this thought for the OP. You did the right thing. You cannot turn back time. Now just enjoy your baby!

Slykat12 said:

bigperm20 said:

Those claims regarding cat evolution seem awfully bold. I venture that cats will continue to evolve as we evolve. Eventually human kind will begin to realize that this planet and the animals here are not a doormat.

Hopefully (before it's too late) people will begin to understand that it's to our benefit to take care of the planet and it's inhabitants. We had better or our grandchildren will have nothing left to call home.

As far as cats of the future I'd say ideally all cats will come from breeders as it will most likely be legally required to spay and neuter your animals. As genetic engineering will eventually be mainstream, I'd say those breeders will be able to better control the temperaments of their animals.

Click to expand...

Bold hahaha it is basic science that I teach ty. Backed up by 100 years of research and peer reviewed journals There are two forces driving evolution (adaptation and sexual selection) feel free to google and explore yourself. Cats will not evolve as intended because we are de-sexing them and we force them to breed. Some of our interference is positive-some negative.

Click to expand...

If society continues to be irresponsible and destructive then I'm sure your theories will hold true.

However if we evolve to take care of the planet, what makes you think that we won't breed for more evolved cats as well?

Sorry, but I don't get how you are using the word (evolve) thus I am unsure what you are trying to say. The word means two things and it could go either way in the context.

But what  I can say is that currently the vast majority of our world is suffering bad economic times, severe economic inequality, starvation, lack of water, over population, disease, war, and major violations of human rights and all of the world is experiencing climate change never before seen in recorded times. As grand an idea you/we have I doubt seriously we would ever get there. People need to eat first, be safe, free, and have economic support  for all that good stuff (controlled and regulated cat breeding) to happen. Sadly, I am no longer optimistic and I seriously doubt there will be much of a world left in 50 or 100 years. There are simply too many humans, not enough resources and everyone is fighting.

Maybe we should get spayed and neutered.

Anyhoo, we are off topic and I need to stop here. TY for the chat.

I don't think we're in danger of having too low of a population of cats, even pet cats :tongue2:. How many threads do you see in just this forum about how their beloved little Fluffy got out and now she's pregnant? Even if it were a law to spay/neuter your cat I don't see anything changing (how would they enforce it? Or prevent mistakes?). Anyway, thanks to small litter sizes (cats don't usually have a dozen babies like large dogs do!), on average, to maintain a stable population, approximately 55% of female cats could have one litter. Or 27.5% could have 2 litters, but the one-litter thing would be better for genetic diversity. So if we ever see that there's a shortage of cats (haha!), it's a small matter to allow our next female cat to have a litter before having her spayed. There will always be a super-smart feral tom out there to get her pregnant, even with an aggressive TNR program.

But really, I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.

Willowy said:

I don't think we're in danger of having too low of a population of cats, even pet cats :tongue2:. How many threads do you see in just this forum about how their beloved little Fluffy got out and now she's pregnant? Even if it were a law to spay/neuter your cat I don't see anything changing (how would they enforce it? Or prevent mistakes?). Anyway, thanks to small litter sizes (cats don't usually have a dozen babies like large dogs do!), on average, to maintain a stable population, approximately 55% of female cats could have one litter. Or 27.5% could have 2 litters, but the one-litter thing would be better for genetic diversity. So if we ever see that there's a shortage of cats (haha!), it's a small matter to allow our next female cat to have a litter before having her spayed. There will always be a super-smart feral tom out there to get her pregnant, even with an aggressive TNR program.

But really, I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.

Click to expand...

I don't think anyone sait there was going to be a "cat shortage"... All I said was hopefully, eventually we will be more responsible humans either by law, or by choice.