calories per oz. Dr. Pierson's recipe using chicken thighs

I'm following Dr. Pierson's recipe for homemade cat food using chicken thighs. I notice she says to count calories not just ounces, and gives alot of info on canned cat food as to calories per oz, but nowhere mentions how many calories per oz. her recipe is. No disrespect. She's done an awe-inspiring job of being thorough. 

So now I'm just counting ounces. Anyone know how many calories per oz for her food (chicken thighs, chicken livers and no egg, thus far).

Also I thought i'd read somewhere in her site that she didn't use all the bone, but I can't find that anywhere yet. I'm wondering if I got confused and made that up. If anyone's very familiar with her site and knows the answer to that question - do i use all the bones from the chicken thighs? - I'd greatly appreciate it.

I found what I was looking for regarding the removal of a % of bone. That's 25% of the chicken thighs.

Still seeking calories per oz.

My analysis shows it is about 37 cal/oz if you remove 50% of the skin and 25% of the bone and you add the 1 cup of water. That's using the USDA value of a bone-in, skin on thigh being 15% bone and 25% skin. You should assume it could be a bit higher or lower. It's probably pretty close though.

Thanks so much. Any idea how much with the skin left on? And curious why you remove it...

It's about 46 cal/oz if you leave all the skin on. Dr. P recommends removing half the skin to get the calories down.

Thank you again! I seem to have missed that part completely, about removing the skin (50%). Mind pointing me to that in her site? Just wondering how i missed it. 

You've been very helpful. I appreciate it.

Right here, "Therefore, I use poultry thighs, which have a lot of meat relative to the bone.  I dilute the bone even further by removing ~25% of the thigh bones.  If I am grinding 20 thighs, I remove 5 bones." Right under With Bones or Without Bones ...and How Much Bone to Use?.

Thank you. That part I'd found. I was wondering about the skin removal.

Have you made her recipe yet?  I had to read and reread her site many times to better understand it.  It's a lot to read, but condensed (no fluff) and a LOT of information to take in that sometimes one just doesn't "get" until reading it the 10th time.  Sometimes I still pick up a piece or two and think "as many times as I've read this, I somehow missed this part."

Fat/skin, from Dr. P's site:

"If your cat is thin and needs the extra calories, leave all of the skin on the meat.  If your cat is chubby or has had pancreatitis, remove ~75% of the skin.  (Some cats that have had pancreatitis do better on a low fat diet.)  If he is just right, remove ~50% of the skin. 

Do not remove the excess fat around the meat no matter the condition of your cat.  Cats need a reasonable amount of animal fat in their diet.  In fact, I have been playing around with adding a little bit of bacon fat to individual meals to give my cats a variety in flavor." 

Oh i know, it's so much to take in! And strangely, I had read that and f dismissed it/forgot it  because I have only one cat that needs to lose weight and one that doesn't, so I'd decided to just give her less. I thought when I read that other person's comment that they were saying Dr. Pierson said to remove 50% of the skin across the board, and i couldn't remember seeing that anywhere. 

And yes, I made her recipe for the first time Tuesday. I'd spent 2 months reading and re-reading and thought I'd done all the prep I needed. Got the meat grinder etc. Then went straight to the recipe, where unfortunately, it doesn't mention the part about removing the bone. Now they're super constipated. I feel bad! 

Gave pumpkin yesterday, and one had diarrhea - either one of the listed symptoms of constipation, or diarrhea caused by the pumpkin. Will have to get  some guar gum and try that. Miralax has propylene glycol in it. Don't like that about it. 

What about propylene glycol makes you uncomfortable?  Of the options available, I prefer that one over using fiber.  There was a little constipation in my cats initially when I first started the recipe, and Miralax took care of that.  Then I slowly decreased the dosage until none was needed. 

The recipe is still a little high in bone even with some bones removed, but I don't know the percentage of bone to meat with all the bones.  Maybe adding in some canned will help dilute out some of the bone until this batch is used up?

Propylene glycol is not permitted to be in any commercial cat foods. I am against feeding it to dogs which it is allowed in small amounts. I have read that it causes liver and kidney damage in large amounts in animals. It is a component of less toxic commercial anti-freeze and also de-icers. I am personally not comfortable feeding it to my cats or even my dog for that matter.

Was it pure pumpkin or the pie mix? Also might try a little goats milk? I've had success with it helping unstop kitty.

nansiludie said:

 
Propylene glycol is not permitted to be in any commercial cat foods. I am against feeding it to dogs which it is allowed in small amounts. I have read that it causes liver and kidney damage in large amounts in animals. It is a component of less toxic commercial anti-freeze and also de-icers. I am personally not comfortable feeding it to my cats or even my dog for that matter.

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This is a common mistake. Miralax does not contain propylene glycol. It contains polyethylene glycol which is a very different thing and is perfectly safe for short term use. The label does have a warning to use only with doctor supervision if kidney disease is present.

It was straight pumpkin, which I've often used successfully for diarrhea. Interesting it helps either way.

And despite my discomfort with miralax, because propylene glycol being 'foreign to the body is a toxin', I went ahead and got some today, because I couldn't get ahold of guar gum to try, early enough. I felt I had to do something today. I'll also decrease it until it's not needed - i hope.

Nice to know about the goat's milk. Will try that. Would love to not have smelly poop. A down side to guar gum. Did the goat's milk have the same problem?

I did not know that PG isn't allowed in commercial cat foods. I know Europe is much stricter about using it in food. There are different grades of it, industrial (brake fluid etc) and food. But still. Don't want anything on that spectrum.

Just leaving the remainder of the other batch in the freezer. Made a new batch today. Might toss the other. I've started small with these first 2 batches while I work out the kinks.

thanks for all the helpful responses. Nice to not feel totally alone with this.

mschauer said:

 
This is a common mistake. Miralax does not contain propylene glycol. It contains polyethylene glycol which is a very different thing and is perfectly safe for short term use. The label does have a warning to use only with doctor supervision if kidney disease is present.

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Thanks for catching that! 

oh thank you! i feel better now.

That is good to know. I had simply assumed that it did. I do not use Miralax for my cats. I feed canned cat food and add in raw chicken pieces for the other kitties.

 In fact, I have been playing around with adding a little bit of bacon fat  to individual meals to give my cats a variety in flavor.

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Has anybody tried this idea from Dr. P? I am using her recipe, but the version with boneless thighs and bone meal. This is my choice as I ponder whether to invest in an expensive grinder. I have a quite useful hand grinder that cuts the chicken into very nicely sized chunks, but I don't think I'm getting enough calories from the boneless thighs for my older cat who is new to this diet and eats pretty lazily. I'm thinking of buying boned thighs and just taking the skins off to include in his mix and using the thighs in people recipes. But bacon sounds like another option. Are you cooking it or grinding it in raw? How much? I'm concerned about the sodium levels, too. TIA for any info you can share! 

And any other ideas for calorie-adding additions? 

I bought a grinder, I bought it from Amazon, it works quite well, I paid around $65 for mine. It is this one, Sunmile G31 UL Meat Grinder 1HP 800W S/S Cutting Blade 3pcs S/S Cutting Plates. It does jam on chicken skin sometimes but it does grind bone and meat nicely. You do have to have your meat partially frozen. I do not use bone meal, I use fresh bone. With the fish oil and egg yolks and half the chicken skin, I haven't needed to add in any additional fat. I do add in some tuna water for flavor on some of his meals about twice a week. You aren't taking off too much fat or skin are you? I only take off about half the skin on say 10 pieces of chicken and take out 3 bones. I leave all the rest of the fat on the chicken.