URI Nursing Mother

I'm sorry if this is the incorrect place to post, I wasn't sure where this would be appropriate :S

I'm in a Vet Assisting program, and I did my first Clinical rotation at Animal Control. Needless to say, I couldn't help but become a foster. On Thursday, I brought home a young (around a year) mother cat with her 5, two day old kittens. She had been given a shot of Convenia, and I believe she was wormed (and possibly received some vaccines vaccine)

On Saturday she started showing very mild symptoms of a URI. It worsened to a lot of congestion, so I brought her into the shelter today (closed on Sun/Mon) and received Clavamox to be given 2x daily, and Neomycin for her/kittens eyes if they become infected. 

I'm pretty positive she will pull through just fine. She has a big appetite and is drinking well. I've started her (and my other cats, who are kept separate of course) on L-Lysine, 500mg daily for her and 250mg daily for them and also giving her a multivitamin. She's getting wet food and dry food. 

My main concern is the kittens. One of them is already very snuffly, the smallest of the litter. They are all still rotund, eating well, and vocal, but I know URI's can hit babies hard. The shelter warned me they don't have a very good chance at making it, and I understand that. 

Is there any supportive care I can give them to better their chances? I am hoping by bolstering the mothers health she will be able to help them fight it, but I don't know if it will help or not. 

I am cleaning and sanitizing as often as possible, and changing blankets often. 

Any help or advice is greatly appreciated!

jentralala said:

 
I'm sorry if this is the incorrect place to post, I wasn't sure where this would be appropriate :S

I'm in a Vet Assisting program, and I did my first Clinical rotation at Animal Control. Needless to say, I couldn't help but become a foster. On Thursday, I brought home a young (around a year) mother cat with her 5, two day old kittens. She had been given a shot of Convenia, and I believe she was wormed (and possibly received some vaccines vaccine)

On Saturday she started showing very mild symptoms of a URI. It worsened to a lot of congestion, so I brought her into the shelter today (closed on Sun/Mon) and received Clavamox to be given 2x daily, and Neomycin for her/kittens eyes if they become infected. 

I'm pretty positive she will pull through just fine. She has a big appetite and is drinking well. I've started her (and my other cats, who are kept separate of course) on L-Lysine, 500mg daily for her and 250mg daily for them and also giving her a multivitamin. She's getting wet food and dry food. 

My main concern is the kittens. One of them is already very snuffly, the smallest of the litter. They are all still rotund, eating well, and vocal, but I know URI's can hit babies hard. The shelter warned me they don't have a very good chance at making it, and I understand that. 

Is there any supportive care I can give them to better their chances? I am hoping by bolstering the mothers health she will be able to help them fight it, but I don't know if it will help or not. 

I am cleaning and sanitizing as often as possible, and changing blankets often. 

Any help or advice is greatly appreciated!

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i don't have experience in this area, but i'm sure other members who have experience will be along shortly. i'll see if i can attract the attention of a couple members with much experience with kittens.

@catwoman707, @StefanZ -- may i ask for your expertise for the OP (original poster)?

Hi there,

I am happy to hear of the field of work you have chosen, I love this! Fostering is also wonderful.

First of all, pregnant/nursing moms should never be vaccinated, as it means the kittens antibodies from mom will not wear off for an extended amt of time, which means they will void out their kitten vaccines until, at some random point they are suddenly gone and the kittens are unprotected.

The babies have a good chance despite a uri, they will receive clavamox too through mom's milk which is a good thing.

If it seems that after a few days of seeing symptoms and they are not improving, they may need a tiny dose themselves. But babies normally respond fast and very well to clavamox.

Frankly if she was not in the best condition when she was vaccinated, she may have come down with the uri FROM the vaccine.

Just be sure mom and kids are nice and toasty warm, have good food and fresh water, and she is attentive and loving.

For stuffy noses you can use Little Noses, it's a saline solution for babies and is harmless to them.

You can also steam them in the bathroom to clear nasal congestion.

They will likely be just fine Keep an eye on them all, but especially the smallest one, as with a litter of 5, I guarantee he is getting bumped off of the nipple he tries to nurse on.

This is what causes most runts/the smallest to not survive, day after day they get bumped off by the bigger ones, until it catches up to them and they lose their will and stop thriving.

The only time I DON'T see this is when the runt is exceptionally feisty and will refuse to submit.

Not too often are they that tough but once in a while

Feel free to ask any questions or give updates.

Thank you! Only the runt (she is a dilute tortie, I've named her Lavender) is showing symptoms atm in the form of a stuffy nose. She is still eating voraciously, and I spend time every day making sure she gets on a nipple and doesn't get pushed off by her sisters and brother. She is also LOUD. Whenever I pick her up to clean her runny nose, she screams up a storm and fights me like crazy. Her brother seems a bit lethargic which has me worried, but he's eating. Blue (momma cat) seems more or less the same, eating and drinking well, with her appetite seeming to grow every day. 

Unfortunately, two of my three cats seem to have come down with URIs as well I'm just so dejected and stressed at this point, trying to do anything I can. Going to call the vet and shelter (although part of the agreement to my fostering was that the shelter has 0 liability or obligation to treat any of my animals, which I understand.) to see about getting all 3 some antibiotics. 

Tybalt (my cat) sneezed badly yesterday, and today he is snuffly and sneezy with watery/gooey eyes. I put Neomycin on his eyes, and I don't know if it's coincidental or not, but since the Neomycin hes barely sneezed, and only right after he ate was when he did. Sissy is sneezing up a storm (is there anything I can give her?). So far Bruce seems fine, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time.  

I'm not entirely certain if she was vaccinated or not, as I'm not sure their policies on pregnant cats, and she gave birth there (did they vaccinate her after?). I know the shelter is always fighting URI's, so I'm certain that's were she got it from. 

Also, just out of curiosity, when I picked them up on Thursday, I was told they had been born recently. They still had umbilical cords. As of two days ago, Lavender (runt) and Bishop (only boy) have their eyes opening. This seems awfully soon?

jentralala said:

 
Thank you! Only the runt (she is a dilute tortie, I've named her Lavender) is showing symptoms atm in the form of a stuffy nose. She is still eating voraciously, and I spend time every day making sure she gets on a nipple and doesn't get pushed off by her sisters and brother. She is also LOUD. Whenever I pick her up to clean her runny nose, she screams up a storm and fights me like crazy. Her brother seems a bit lethargic which has me worried, but he's eating. Blue (momma cat) seems more or less the same, eating and drinking well, with her appetite seeming to grow every day. 

Unfortunately, two of my three cats seem to have come down with URIs as well I'm just so dejected and stressed at this point, trying to do anything I can. Going to call the vet and shelter (although part of the agreement to my fostering was that the shelter has 0 liability or obligation to treat any of my animals, which I understand.) to see about getting all 3 some antibiotics. 

Tybalt (my cat) sneezed badly yesterday, and today he is snuffly and sneezy with watery/gooey eyes. I put Neomycin on his eyes, and I don't know if it's coincidental or not, but since the Neomycin hes barely sneezed, and only right after he ate was when he did. Sissy is sneezing up a storm (is there anything I can give her?). So far Bruce seems fine, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time.  

I'm not entirely certain if she was vaccinated or not, as I'm not sure their policies on pregnant cats, and she gave birth there (did they vaccinate her after?). I know the shelter is always fighting URI's, so I'm certain that's were she got it from. 

Also, just out of curiosity, when I picked them up on Thursday, I was told they had been born recently. They still had umbilical cords. As of two days ago, Lavender (runt) and Bishop (only boy) have their eyes opening. This seems awfully soon?

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Funny (well not really) but it seems that when we focus mostly on one kitten like the smallest one, it will be another, bigger one who doesn't seem quite right. I would really watch the one you said seems lethargic.

Really spend some time just watching how things go with all of them, you will soon see who is a fighter, who is eating fine, who loses interest easily, and so on.

Who is Sissy?

The problem with shelters and pulling them from there, which I do all the time btw, is that there are so many animals there, coming from every corner of the planet, which is why there is such a problem with disease/virus control.

Not because they are not using a disinfectant, but because the viruses seem to be the strongest most heartiest around. I think it's because of this that almost every time I pull cats from there, a matter of days later they come down with a uri, and it's always a bitch to get rid of. Very hard, long time of meds, etc. 

I said all this because, assuming your cats are vaccinated, and they certainly should be if you are fostering for the shelter, that they will still manage to come down with a uri rather than not be affected.

I doubt it will be as bad as it would say, in a kitten or teenager, as adults grow nice strong immunity and normally are resistant.

But from the shelter, they always seem to be much stronger.

Yes, if the cords were still attached then they would be 2 days or less old. 

I had a litter last year that was large, 7 babies, and at under 5 days old, one's eyes were wide open one morning, I was shocked to see little round deep blues staring at me at that age!

The next day 2 more had their eyes open, so the standard 10-ish days can vary, it's just on average basically.

Blue is very congested today, but with a big, healthy appetite. She's seeming a lot more active. Lavender (runt) was snifflingall night and this morning seemed to have gunk around her mouth

I have a vet appt today for Tybalt. He is drooling constantly and has wet eyes. I can convince him to eat watery pate wet food. My mom, meaning well, put vicks on his chin after I left to take an exam. I think he ingested some, because I found he threw up what I had fed him this morning. I got him to eat again, but he's still drooling (which may be exacerbated by the vicks)

Sissy is also my cat. She is sneezing constantly. I am hoping the vet will be willing to give me meds for all of them without me having to bring them all in. 

Lavender has taken a turn for the worse She has no interest in eating, no matter how much I try to get her on a nipple. She's not vocal at all when I pick her up. The little black one is slightly weak, but he's eating some. The other 3 (all torties) are voracious and active and robust. 

jentralala said:

 
Lavender has taken a turn for the worse She has no interest in eating, no matter how much I try to get her on a nipple. She's not vocal at all when I pick her up. The little black one is slightly weak, but he's eating some. The other 3 (all torties) are voracious and active and robust. 

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Oh.  May be beginning of the end...       continuing!

OK, the standard rescuing.

1.  Make sure she is warm.  Warm actively if need be. The very weak cant hold warmth by themselves.

Momma is often neglecting kittens she understands are dying.  So you humans must do the warming up.  Carrying at the chest is a good idea, perhaps in a little sack so you dont get soiled too much.

Do massage up, limbs, tummy, back.     Sing softly and pleasantly, make soft voices.   It will help whichever way she goes.

2.  Give some energy by having some glucose sugar on her gum!   If you dont have glucose sugar, white caro syrup, or honey are OK.    Otherwise almost anything else you or your neigbours do have.  Maple syrup, baking syrup, even common white sugar - although its much slower.

If the fault is "just" low blood sugar, this will help immediately.   But also in almost all other cases it will perk in some energy - continuing

3.  Dehydration  is a mayor danger, and weak kittens seems almost always to get it.  At least, if you rush to the vets, they are almost alwys injecting fluids.

So, drop in some water.  Use a dropper or such....   Pedialyte, homemade or bought, is even better.   But begin with water if you dont have the gears.

I write somewhat about homemade pedialytes in the current parallellt thread.

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/286260/last-two-of-my-litter-of-five-please-help#post_3634398

Emergency visit to your vet?  Sure, but only if you KNOW he is good with weak, fading kittens.   Many vets arent!

Otherwise its better to leave the kitten home and do your best yourself.

Holding thumbs!

Good luck!

Back from the vet! I love my vet, she's the best. Tybalt was so happy to see her (I'm not even being sarcastic, he was rubbing all over her and purring like crazy.) She calmed me down a lot, and said that it's not as bad as it looks, it hasn't gone into his lungs and he seems not be very congested.

She didn't prescribe antibiotics (but she told me that if his discharge becomes green/yellow, to give her a call and she'll prescribe me some.) He is having some bloodwork done just to be safe. 

She prescribed me Synacore Probiotics for all of the cats, and Engystol (homeopathic immune support) for Tybs (although I can give some occasionally to the others for a boost). 

I didn't think to ask, but I wonder if the kittens can get the Engystol (it's dosed by mouth).

Thank you for the advice for Lavender! I will try those things. What do you think about goats milk (I have access to fresh, raw)or KMR to get food in her? She doesn't seem to want to eat at all.

However, somehow she got out of the bed (it's the bottom of a carrier) and I could hear her rooms away screaming her head off. Other than that, though, she's now very quiet.

jentralala said:

 
Thank you for the advice for Lavender! I will try those things. What do you think about goats milk (I have access to fresh, raw)or KMR to get food in her? She doesn't seem to want to eat at all.

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Im a great fan of goat milk, espec if you can get fresh.

KMR is good, but  goat milk is almost always worth trying.  

Sometimes it must be diluted with water (or pedialyte) somewhat, but otherwise,  I think all who tried were happy with it.

If she doesnt wants to eat, you must force feed.  Perhaps even consider tube feeding if so is.  You do have good contact with yhour vet, is she good at tube feeding?  quite a few vets dont have a clue here.

Also, do weigh her at least once a day.  Best an electronic kitchen scale measuring in grammes.  So you can follow exactly her gains, or lack thereof.

Good luck!

ps.  If she was screaming her lungs off, she is not lethargic and fading as yet.

But as mom didnt fetch her, it means, mom isnt bothering much any longer about her = mom has lost her hopes for her....

So look out, and be prepared to take over.  Or at least, give mom double support with helping her.

Mom seemed anxious about her screaming, but i think she didn't want to leave the others to grab her. However, a few days ago one  somehow made it all the way across the room and mom didn't seem anxious to go get her. I'm pretty sure this is her first litter (she is quite young), and she's not sure what she's doing sometimes. She does very well at cuddling and keeping them warm.

Lavender still isn't willing to eat, so I'm headed to the store for some KMR. I have kitten bottles & nipples, but should I get a syringe to try?

My local vets aren't very well versed in neonatal care, our previous vet would generally choose euthanasia. I'm not sure my current vet, but I will give her a call tomorrow if Lavender doesn't perk up. However, I'm not sure if my vet would be allowed to do anything to them, as they aren't 'my' cats, they belong to the shelter? 

Blue is eating like a champ and seems to be gaining a decent amount of weight. 

I had been weighing the kittens daily, but with all the stress I had forgotten the past few days. On the 6th she was 6.5 oz (with the others being around 7.5) and today she is 6oz

jentralala said:

 
Lavender still isn't willing to eat, so I'm headed to the store for some KMR. I have kitten bottles & nipples, but should I get a syringe to try?

My local vets aren't very well versed in neonatal care, our previous vet would generally choose euthanasia. I'm not sure my current vet, but I will give her a call tomorrow if Lavender doesn't perk up. However, I'm not sure if my vet would be allowed to do anything to them, as they aren't 'my' cats, they belong to the shelter? 

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A syringe may be easier.  Also, if you must "forcefeed" its easier with a syringe.  for bottle they must suck themselves, voluntary....

  A syringe of 3 ml is useful.

If you pay of your own pocket you can probably use any decent vet you prefer.

But if you want the shelter to pay, you must surely have OK from them.

Keep weighting every day - even twice a day, so you know exactly what happens.  Write every result up.   She must gain every day!

Measuring in grammes is easier than in Oz, you see directely all differences and changes.

Good you have KMR, but if you can get fresh goat milk, do have it too at hand.

Good luck!

Yes, good advice StefanZ! 

Anytime a nursing baby stops nursing or loses interest, it's up to us to intervene and supplement with the hopes that once they get over the hump they will get busy and nurse again.

Syringing will be MUCH easier. It is highly unlikely for a baby to have a mom and will suck formula from a bottle. They just refuse it over and over, so to get the kmr into her, use a small syringe, and feed a total amt daily of approx 8 mls per ounce of weight.

Feed tummy side down and keep warm.

Be careful to use patience, very slowly syringing into her cheek and allow to swallow/breath.

Update - Unfortunately not a happy one. I have lost 3 kittens out of the 5 so far. The runt passed away first, then two torties over the next 48hrs. 

I am left with one tortie (Carrot) who only has a slight sniffle and is nursing from momma voraciously. I am also left with the black kitten (Bishop) who has not nursed in days and who I have been tube feeding KMR diluted with pedialyte, giving him one drop of antibiotic daily and mixing a bit of probiotic in his food. He fluctuates in health, but tonight he looks bad. His breathing is very labored. 

Momma has been acting strangely, possibly due to losing 3 kittens one right after the other? She is now very protective of her babies, but also likes to grab Carrot and bite at her. She acts very restless, going in and out of the nest repeatedly. 

Carrot weighs 9.5oz and Bishop weighs 9oz. I have been feeding him 6-7ccs every three - four hours. 

I'm afraid I will lose him too. 

I really feel like I failed these babies.

jentralala said:

 
Update - Unfortunately not a happy one. I have lost 3 kittens out of the 5 so far. The runt passed away first, then two torties over the next 48hrs. 

I am left with one tortie (Carrot) who only has a slight sniffle and is nursing from momma voraciously. I am also left with the black kitten (Bishop) who has not nursed in days and who I have been tube feeding KMR diluted with pedialyte, giving him one drop of antibiotic daily and mixing a bit of probiotic in his food. He fluctuates in health, but tonight he looks bad. His breathing is very labored. 

Momma has been acting strangely, possibly due to losing 3 kittens one right after the other? She is now very protective of her babies, but also likes to grab Carrot and bite at her. She acts very restless, going in and out of the nest repeatedly. 

Carrot weighs 9.5oz and Bishop weighs 9oz. I have been feeding him 6-7ccs every three - four hours. 

I'm afraid I will lose him too. 

I really feel like I failed these babies.

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How sad So sorry to hear this.

Rule of thumb is 8 mls of kmr per ounce of weight, so Bishop needs to take in about 72 mls a day to gain properly.

I personally would give them both  0.1 mls twice a day of antibiotics. The labored breathing doesn't sound good at all, however it may look that way if he is breathing through his mouth.

If he is stuffy, this will explain his lack of nursing. You can steam him too, and if he is able to get well, he will do so once he has had 5 doses of antibiotics. That's the point you will notice an improvement. Let's hope he can hang in there long enough to get better.

Pneumonia is a common side effect to having a uri, which of course is fatal at their age.

From what I can figure, they are about 2 weeks old today, so they are actually at pretty good weights.

Yes, they should be right at 2 weeks. He hasn't gained much lately, he's stalled out a bit. Should I be feeding him more at each session? I'm just terrified of overfeeding him...

From what I've researched it does sound like he may have pneumonia :/ I gave him .1ml of Clavamox 20 mins ago at his last feeding. His breathing is just awful. He does put up a fight at feeding time, but the rest of the time he is pretty lethargic. I don't dare to be hopeful anymore. 

This whole experience has been incredibly traumatic. My cats are all sick, lost 3 of the kittens, probably going to lose a fourth...this is so much harder than I ever thought. 

Would it be worth contacting the shelter in the morning to see if something could be done?

Unfortunately if it has turned into pneumonia, there's no saving now. Only a vet can listen and know whether the breathing sounds like it or if it is still congestion at this point.

The clavamox is to prevent pneumonia since it is impossible to recover from at 2 weeks old. Adults even have a very rough go at overcoming it.

I'm not saying to give up hope of course, it may not be pneumonia yet, but as you know already, it might be.

DO give it to the other kitten! It will save it's life. Secondary pneumonia from uri's in kittens is super common for them to get. They have such tiny immature immune systems so the bacteria thrive on a helpless weak baby.

As far as amt of feeding, use his weight to judge the amt he gets. Regardless if he wants it or not, he doesn't know what's good for him. It's hard because with him feeling sick, he doesn't want to eat. So it's a force thing, but you must be SO careful when syringing that you are slow and patient, into cheek while on his tummy, allowing to breath and swallow, and just a few small drops at a time.

Yeah, I have been in your shoes, and it's traumatic, no doubt about that.

Boy could I tell the stories.........

Hang in there, do your best, it's all we have.

Continue the clavamox, every 12 hours faithfully, and what will be will be. Hoping for the best of course.  

He passed away during the night. I was really, really hoping I could save him but I really think it turned into pneumonia. 

Is this normal? To lose 4 out of 5 kittens to a URI? 

Carrot is still nursing from mom, who is still getting Clavamox (her course is up on Friday), should I still give Carrot .1ml every 12 hrs? And how long should I do that? I have another bottle for my cat that I can use a bit from for her, his course will be finished on Tues. 

I am a bit worried about mom, she seems to have dried up a LOT, but I guess that is to be expected since she is only nursing a single kitten now? She only has two teats that are slightly swollen, instead of 4 very heavy ones. 

Carrot is very active and is already starting to play (she loves her little tummy tickled), but seems to be constantly looking for mom to suckle from (her belly is fat and round though, and she looks to be at 10oz currently (hard to tell, boy is she squirmy!!)). 

Is it odd that she doesn't cry? She makes the motion to, but no sound comes out except occasionally the beginning of a cry will form. She purrs like crazy though. 

I'm very sorry to hear this It doesn't surprise me though, as you described him yesterday, it was very likely pneumonia unfortunately.....

You know, if mom had it while carrying them, they were developing with it, which means for that reason (in my logic and experience in this) that it has already worked against them. The ones who are very mild, the clavamox mom is getting and passing along in her milk is often times enough, but def. not always.

I rescued a cat once, she delivered 7 babies the night before her scheduled euthanasia at the shelter. It literally gave her a chance to be rescued, which I did.

I lost all of her kids, one by one, despite my experience and vigilant care, one by one they died.

She was SO sick, just ragged, awful condition. She seemed so depressed. The vet even managed to convince me to have her pts right then, that her chances of recovering were slim.

I signed the paper and when the vet left the room I broke down, this is NOT what I do! I changed my mind and thought I can at least try. Took her home, named her Hope and forced her to get well. My dh would hold her like a baby, wrapped in a blanket while I force fed her, kept her warm and gave her fluids, antibiotics, etc and waited. She began to make this cry sound like a whining baby lamb, so sweet, she knew we cared, and within days started looking forward to her feedings and babying.

Who knew, but after her long recovery, and new fur came in, her eyes turned bright, she was a gorgeous bengal cat.

It was awful losing all 7 kids........but I saved her.

She completely recovered and went on to be adopted and is the best home possible now.

Anyway enough of that. 

Yes, sometimes you do lose them all, or most, or half. Just depends, and it's not a reflection on what you are/are not doing, but what is meant to be I suppose.

I would carefully monitor the remaining baby's weight to be sure there is a good gain daily, so you will know if mom is getting in enough milk supply, otherwise you will need to be supplementing.

Don't be surprised if she doesn't get VERY protective of her sole survivor. She IS mourning silently for her lost ones, don't doubt that for a minute.

Don't look back, but focuson getting her and her baby well and healthy, and get her butt spayed asap once he turns about 5-6 weeks.

The shelter takes them back the second the baby turns 2lbs to be put up for adoption (they get spayed/neutered when they get adopted, the person picks them up the next day after the surgery), so no more babies for Blue! 

I am not sure how long Blue was at the shelter, but I know she gave birth there (in the Stray room, most likely, which, in all honesty, doesn't have the healthiest cats in there). Blue showed symptoms a day after I brought her home, which would have been approx 3 days after their birth. 

Blue was in good condition, if I bit scrawny. I think she was someone's pet (did I mention she looks like a Russian Blue mix?), as she is just SO sweet. Wants to follow people everywhere, doesn't like being stuck in one room, and insists on sleeping on (literally on me, my stomach or side or neck) me at night. She is also starting to become very playful. 

I am so very sorry about those kittens. I can't even imagine losing seven of them, that must have been absolutely traumatic. Momma must have been gorgeous once that fur came in, Bengals are absolutely stunning. 

Blue is acting....odd. If I reach my hand into the nest to pet her or check on Carrot, she grabs it and starts licking me like crazy. She seems restless, and doesn't stayin the nest as much as I would like, but grooms/stimulates Carrot often. 

Carrot has decided its time to go exploring, and it's getting harder and harder to get her little butt to stay in the nest.