Do cats remember - Bad vets trip

catwoman707

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It does take time and patience, it's really the only way to get him over the fear.

It's okay, he's young and will be fine. Just continue doing what you are doing, and don't be afraid to push his limits, in other words, when you see he is comfortable with where you are at with him, move on to more.

If there is anything in particular that he seems especially fond of, like a piece of tuna, etc. then use it to your advantage, small bit in your hand, make him come after it, then move your hand to the right for him to eat it and pet his side with your left hand. It's best for petting to start with his side or neck rather than him seeing your hand reach up over his head.
 
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nacho

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Thought I would check in with a progress report.

Little Nook is relaxing more each day. He is definitely less spooked.

Although a friend dropped in yesterday and he just froze in the corner of his cage for about 30 mins; when she went he relaxed again.

I guess strangers will take a bit longer to get use to.

He is eating from me well and letting me pet him.  I try to extend my petting past food and he seems ok with it.  He moves away when he has had enough which is fine.

He loved playing with the wand toy and is seems quite happy with the daily routine.

My work time has changed recently so I was a bit worried about leaving him and not having the time with him, but he tends to sleep 90% of the day anyway and just wakes up to play and eat in the evening. It does not seem to be effecting our training.

He is definitely a different cat already and I feel confident this will improve with time.
 

mani

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That is just such wonderful news.


Keep us posted!
 

catwoman707

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Yes! Great to hear :)

His future with strangers is another story, as he becomes more and more of a family cat to you and family, he may never be okay around strangers.

Which is okay too, as long as he interacts fine with you, who really cares right? :)
 
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nacho

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Well progress is good.

Tonight I found his sweet spot.....right under his chin. He was pushing into my hand while being smoothed he looked really relaxed and seemed to be enjoying it.
Now i need to keep pushing until i can pick him up i guess.

I think your right about strangers he may always feel uncomfortable.

He's a bit more relaxed with my partner but he's no where near as relaxed as when he is with me. He is trying i guess but it may take longer.
Prehaps it's a male thing.

The way he was tonight I actually think there is a real smoochy cat in there.
 
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mani

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The way he was tonight I actually think there is a real smoochy cat in there.
YES!


How good to hear that!  As CatWoman707 knows and keeps reminding us, it's about patience.. give him time and he'll be a little darling.

Good for you, for being so persistent and patient.
 

msaimee

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Are you letting him out of the cage at all yet? Now that he's no longer hissing and biting you, perhaps it's time to let him out at least for play time?
 
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nacho

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Well we have progressed from chin tickles to belly rubs tonight, he is really letting loose at last.
I have not let him out yet although the door is wide open when i play with him and so far he has choisen not to come out.
He is still hissing at my partner which is a bit of a concern. I'm worried that he will just hide when i take the cage away. He is obviously still scared if him for some reason.
What does everyone think?
 

catwoman707

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Well we have progressed from chin tickles to belly rubs tonight, he is really letting loose at last.
I have not let him out yet although the door is wide open when i play with him and so far he has choisen not to come out.
He is still hissing at my partner which is a bit of a concern. I'm worried that he will just hide when i take the cage away. He is obviously still scared if him for some reason.
What does everyone think?
Excellent progress!! Nice job! Belly rubs, great!! The more comfortable he is with you, the more you can take it a step further, keep that in mind. To the point of eventually being able to pick him up.

So he is comfortable and safe in the cage, by choice it sounds. This is a very good thing as well. If he was not and wanting desperately to have his freedom, by now he would have shown attempts to escape.

It's hard to believe that this kitten was in a home of a breeder, who obviously cared absolutely nothing about their social behavior. Crazy, makes me just shake my head in disbelief. I liked to think that people breed for the love of the breed itself rather than purely profit. VERY sad.

He is SO unsocialized........

Progress with you will gain his confidence in people in general, however must become more familiar and comfortable with your partner as well as you.

If you can't get your partner to spend time with him caged, then it may have to come later once he is uncaged but in one room only (that is the next stage of taming once ready to be out)

Regardless though, eventually he will adapt to him too, but without working with him one on one, it may take quite some time.
 

mani

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I'm really just here for moral support.. 
  Catwoman707 is giving excellent advice and I agree that letting him be where he feels safe is the way to go.

I'm so please you're at the belly-rub stage!
 
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nacho

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Well I have had my first purrs tonight!!!

I was giving him a belly rub and a chin tickle and he started purring, he was so content he even dribbled on my hand and was snaking around trying to get as close as he could to me!!

My partner has manged to smooth him but he looks slightly uncomfortable and continued to hiss occasionally - but at least he has manged to smooth him now.  One thing that is helping a bit is when he offers the back of his hand for Nook to smell rather than the pointy finger he was offering before.  I get the feeling he does not like having pointy things pointed at him.

To move to the next stage what is the best way to pick him up?

Should I do the scoop or grab the scruff.

Really appreciate the help, I don't think I could have done it without you guys - I just want to say thanks.

This is little Nanook - I sure I have a really smoochy cat here that was just dying to come out.
 
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catwoman707

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Your updates always put a smile on my face :) Really!

Start getting him used to the feeling of being lifted a bit, once he is so comfortable with all the pets and tummy rubs, start sliding your hand under him and lifting up a bit. Do this as much as you can.

You will also be taking opportunities when giving him loves to have your body right up to the cage front with door open, and as you are petting him bring him towards you, until you are able to pet and smooth him while pinned up to you. As your hand is petting him you will have pressure on the hand to sort of push his body against yours.

Once these are mastered and he is fully comfortable with them, it will be time to actually pick him up and hold him.

When that time has come, I will describe the best way to hold him, because the first time he may feel a panic and react, but it's expected. He may not, but usually they will.

It's not a setback, just a small reaction to something he has grown to NOT feel safe with.

A cat being held feels helpless, so he needs to get used to trusting you.

Also meant to mention this, if you want to add to his affection, try using a small brush on him, just a little at a time, but soon enough it will be another feel good thing you do with him.

You can also now be toying with him, I always start out with a very small toy like a furry mouse. I got them used to my teasing them through the cage bars, I'd spray it with catnip in case they are one who loves it, this is when I find out.

Then show it to him, then take it and start teasing with just showing a small part of it from the outside, like the tail only, and make like the mouse is walking along the outside of the cage but showing the tail part only. It's great for getting their hunting instinct to react.

Then I take it and put it at the front of the cage, and flick it with my finger so it shoots towards the back, not at him directly, but for him to react by going after it.

Sometimes you will have to repeat this over several days until he sees it's not threatening but a fun game.

Soon he will look for it when you show up and wait for it to be shot towards him. Very cute, and you now have reached his kitten play side :)

Wands come later, as he needs more trust.

Baby him, adore him, he will know. Give him treats, oh and be sure your partner understands the safe way to reach towards him, always start below his face, then go towards a neck scratch.

Never want to reach over head to pet. Too intimidating. 
 
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mani

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Just the usual 'good for you' and an etheric hug for little nacho.
 
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nacho

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Well thought I would check in.

Gone backwards a couple of steps over the last 2 days.

Little Nook as discovered  the paw swipe whilst petting.  He has a set routine in that he rolls on his side and then swipes me as I am trying to pet him, whilst purring at the same time.

He really caught me the 1st time and I immediately terminated what we were doing and walked away.........to sort out all the blood on my hand mainly!  Unfortunately I have very sensitive hands and swipe rips through like paper.  He did it again today and I also had 2 hisses.

I am trying to deflect his paw with the toys but he seems to have realised he can do damage.

What's the best way to approach this?

He is still feeding from me fine by the way.

I'm not sure if he is getting over stimulated with the smooths and is trying to turn them into play but a bit too roughly.

Perhaps I need to get some gloves.
 

catwoman707

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Gloves would be good.

The biggest key is to never let him think he has the upper hand, so by fearing being scratched, which of course we all would, makes him feel empowered and more in control. 

So regardless of whether it is in play or what, he can't be allowed to get a reaction from you.

It's perfectly normal to have small setbacks, just go right back to it and continue, with gloves until this can be stopped.

You're doing fine!
 
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nacho

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Thought i would give a progress update.

Little Nook is doing brilliant.
He just loves being petted and really loves his daily brush.

He is now out most of the time. I do try to put him in the cage at night but that is coming less and less.

We had another milestone event today he sat on my lap twice! Then looked up at me and pushed his nose against mine.

What does this mean?

He is still a bit scared of somethings but we are getting there.

Two months was little time to pay to find the sweet cat within the cat so to say.

Thanks for the help.
 

mani

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YAY!!! This is wonderful news!!!


I always think that having my nose push means I'm being 'claimed'. 

I'd say Nacho has well and truly claimed you.
 
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nacho

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Well Nanook has been out of the cage for just over a week now and is confined to out living/dining area.

Things seem to have taken a backwards turn over the last 3 days.

He seems to have gone back to old ways, hiding and hissing and not letting me touch him much.

I really don't know what has happened, but I am really worried that he will never be right.

I guess I am feeling quite upset by it all having put so so much time into it ........2 months of intensive work seems to have gone down the drain!

I don't really know what the answer is anymore.

I am not aware that I have changed my behavior to him in any way so I just don't understand.

He will still come to me for food but is not eating as much as he was now he is out.

He has also swiped at me a couple of times when I try to pet him.

I  am worried and think my partner is close to the end and is getting increasingly frustrated by him.

The change in behavior is just really weird.

Not sure where to go from here....
 

msaimee

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A few questions for you. Is he just hiding and swiping at you when you try to pet him, or is he going nuts--crying for hours and scaling the walls and windows and clawing at the door to get out? If he's just hiding and swiping at you, then maybe you should consider just letting him be and not try so hard to push him into being the kind of cat that you'd like him to be. If you allow him to go at his own pace, he may come to trust you and bond with you in his own way. He'll likely never be a cuddly lap cat. However, he may sleep on your bed, play with you and a wand toy, sit beside you, and allow for the occasional pet. Would this be enough for you to consider it a success? If so, It will take more time. On the other hand, if he's crying a lot and trying to get out, scaling walls and windows, then you might consider allowing him to be your outdoor feral cat, providing food on your porch and a warm pet shelter for outside. Some cats are true ferals--they are not meant to be tamed, socialized, or have their spirits broken. They are truly wild and are stressed when confined and not allowed their freedom outside (Alley Cats has a lot of information about this, you could check out their website). 

My neighbor and I have taken in 6 ferals over the past few years. Three of them were 3-4 month old males when we took them in, and we fully domesticated them. Two were older females--one was 5 months old, the other 10 months old. Both of them are content to live indoors, but are not cuddly lap cats. They will sleep on our beds, play with us, and allow us to pet them sometimes (but we will occasionally get swiped at). We love and accept them for who they are. One was a true feral, and was released back outside, and lives on my block. I feed him daily, care for him when he's ill, and have provided a pet house on my porch for the cold. He's been my outdoor feral for 3 years. He allows me to sit close beside him, but will not allow me to pet him. He has his freedom, and he is a true feral, and I accept him on his own terms.  

Not every feral is meant to be domesticated and live indoors. Not every feral who adjusts to living indoors with us will turn into a friendly cat who wants to be petted and sit on our laps.   Only you can look into your cat's eyes and soul and know what his best for him. No matter whatever the outcome, you've neutered and cared for this cat and have given him the opportunity to live a long, healthy life, and in no way should you consider it a failure if you do release him back outside, or if he remains in your house but aloof for some time to come.

I know there may be some who differ with me, but I don't think you should put him back in a cage or force him to eat from your hands again. Some cats are just not meant to be domesticated in this way.
 
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