Do cats remember - Bad vets trip

catpack

TCS Veteran
Kitten
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
3,271
Purraise
646
Location
Southeastern USA
I know the first few days can be frustrating. But, you will soon see progress with Nook. It is completely normal for it to take a few days for the cat to calm down when crated (even if they are very social!)
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22

nacho

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
46
Purraise
5
Well he has suddenly decided to relax a bit and has come out from under his bed to sit on top of his bed.
Plus he took a couple of bits of chicken from me about 10 mins ago, now he's grooming.
Seems positive from this mornings hissing.
Do i need to try to play with him while he is in the cage?
Maybe i could dangle somthing through the bars.
 

msaimee

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
Messages
1,850
Purraise
1,697
Location
Western PA
If he engages in play sessions with you, then I think you should let him out of the crate several times a day to play with him--use a wand toy, which is interactive. It has been my experience that play therapy is the most effective method of socializing and bonding with a feral or semi-feral cat. I also have never forced a feral cat to eat from my hand--some just never will, and you have to accept them on their terms. Just giving the cat his food each day is enough for the cat to understand that you are his caretaker.  The aggression is something that needs to be dealt with. However, I've had a female feral cat for over a year now, and the other day when I had to put ear drops in her ear, she panicked and scratched me--this sort of reaction is built in, not only in feral cats, but also domestic cats can panic when scared and bite and scratch. My experience has taught me that engaging in a power struggle with a feral cat will not work--many of them are strong-willed and will only regress in their ability to trust. Next time you have to get the cat into a carrier, use work gloves and enlist the help of someone. The other person can hold the carrier and position is under the cat while you get him inside.  

If the crating method only makes him more frustrated and angry, then you can try the method that I have, that has worked for me. Confine the cat to one room that contains his litter box, food bowl, water, toys, and a place for him to hide like a cat carrier, closet, pet house, etc. Leave a radio on with soft music-pop or classical-24/7. Go into the room several times a day to interact with food treats and try to engage in play. After a few weeks, you will notice a large difference.

There are many different ideas about how to socialize feral and semi-feral cats, and different methods work for different cats and humans.  See what works best for you and your cat.   
 

catwoman707

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
7,689
Purraise
2,263
Location
Vallejo, CA
My opinion and experience is, he is not yet ready to trust and relax enough to play with you.

Because he is a kitten, it will happen sooner than an adult, just due to their spunk mode is hard to contain :) but I would not let him out of the crate!

The process is to make him rely completely on you for everything, mainly food. This is the way to their hearts.

As I expected, he isn't holding out longer than the norm time. Progress already :)

Keep doing what you're doing, very soon he will be eating from your hand and allowing you to pet him :)

That is the first step/hurdle.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #25

nacho

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
46
Purraise
5
Day 3 and he is starting to eat from me. Due to the food being mushy i have it on a small spoon so he is close to my hand. Have not tried the petting yet just happy he is eating from me. Plus he knows when meal time is now because he can see us cook,watch us eat then he knows it's his turn.
As for letting him out if the cage...if i did that I'd never get him back in as he is at the moment.
It is working he's a lot calmer when we move around him as he has no where to hide so he's just getting used to it.
He can see everything from his cage on the table so does not miss anything.
As for me still feeling a tad anxious....plus i feel as if I'm being watched all the time!!!
Baby steps but i have confidence we will gey there.
 

catwoman707

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
7,689
Purraise
2,263
Location
Vallejo, CA
Perfect!

You need to start the petting part now. You don't want it to be a big setback, just seen as a small obstacle :)

Mushy food, put it in a very small container and hold in the palm of your hand.
 
Last edited:
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #27

nacho

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
46
Purraise
5
Wow I just had my first petting session!!!!

We are now into day 4 and little Nook had been taking food comfortably from the spoon so tonight as he took every mouthful he had I gave him a little smooth on his back and side. I was quite shocked that I did not need to pull the food away he just seemed to accept it.

I had been building myself up and was a tad nervous that I was going to get bitten or swiped by a paw but he seemed fine. 

Hopefully he will be the same tomorrow and get better every day.

One thing I have noticed since he has been in there is that he has been more vocal.......is this normal?

He has little bursts of meowing and he has been doing the odd session at night too according to my partner who is a light sleeper.

Is this something I need to ignore or pamper to? 

I have currently been ignoring it and then going to talk to him about 10 mins after his session which is what I would do if he were a dog - not to encourage him to call and I come running....is this right?

He is still hissing at my partner, I am convinced it's his size that Nook sees as a threat. A 6.3 man hovering over you could be very frightening to a little kitten.  I keep telling him to bend down more when he approaches him.  

I will get him to join me in the feeding and petting as soon as I feel more confident myself.

Fingers crossed for things to come.....
 
Last edited:

catwoman707

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
7,689
Purraise
2,263
Location
Vallejo, CA
Things are progressing perfectly!

His meowing is fine, he doesn't want to be alone. This is a good thing too.

He will be a great companion once this is all over with, for many years to come.
 

catsknowme

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
11,458
Purraise
6,679
Location
Eastern California,USA
  
If the crating method only makes him more frustrated and angry, then you can try the method that I have, that has worked for me. Confine the cat to one room that contains his litter box, food bowl, water, toys, and a place for him to hide like a cat carrier, closet, pet house, etc. Leave a radio on with soft music-pop or classical-24/7. Go into the room several times a day to interact with food treats and try to engage in play. After a few weeks, you will notice a large difference.

There are many different ideas about how to socialize feral and semi-feral cats, and different methods work for different cats and humans.  See what works best for you and your cat.   
 I am happy to see that the crating is working with Nacho BUT for those others who are either unable to get a sufficient crate or prefer to try the small-room approach, I think it is important that MsAimee's option is also considered.  I have a small bathroom that works wonders after a few day - kitties like to hide behind the toilet & being around the flushing noise seems to acclimate them to loud household noises. I am sure to keep the toilet lid down, by the way.

    Sometimes, it can take several months before the cat is confident enough to join the rest of the family, but I have tamed adult, extremely frightened adult FERALS (I am talking about multi-generational "feralness") using that method.  The adults mentioned are so friendly that people often don't believe me that the cats were once as wild as deer
 

msaimee

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
Messages
1,850
Purraise
1,697
Location
Western PA
Thanks, catsknowme.I have socialized a 10 month and a 4 month feral by using a spare room. A friend told me to try not to break their spirit while taming and I take that to heart. I will never force an animal to eat from my hand or confine it to a cage to force it to become domesticated. The one feral I let go back outside to care for him there because I couldn't stand to see his struggles being confined even to a room. I believe even cats should be allowed to choose their destinies. However, that is my philosophy snd my method and it works for me. I would not presume that it would work for every cat or human which is why I offered it as an alternative to the method described earlier.
 

catwoman707

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
7,689
Purraise
2,263
Location
Vallejo, CA
Nobody is excluding the method you have used successfully, I have tamed literally countless ferals and have used both means of confinement.

However the OP was very discouraged at the lack of progress by allowing him to not be confined. There is absolutely nothing spirit breaking for a young kitten to be crated. She is making progress nicely now.

It should be clear to those of us reading/following this thread that Nacho is lacking experience in taming, so rather than post negatives about crating, which may cause her to question it, why not be supportive?

Things are going well!
 
Last edited:

phoenix mommy

TCS Member
Kitten
Joined
Sep 22, 2014
Messages
6
Purraise
1
Location
Columbus, Ohio
Okay so you are going to be starting from scratch unfortunately.

You don't sound happy to be owning a semi-feral teenager, and this is what you've got.
I'm sure the breeder you got him from was not interested in producing social cats to sell, which is why he is the way he is.
I feel for all of her past, present and future litters as well as the adults she has breeding :(

The first thing you want to do is take his carrier outside and give it a good spraydown with household cleaner such as 409 or any other, especially the inside.
Rinse well and allow it to dry.
This removes all scents he has left behind, fear and adrenaline scents linger on for a long time and you want the memory to fade.

You will want to crate him, elevate it, as this is much more comforting to a cat. Have him in a calm, quiet room, where the least amt of traffic and noise are, yet not isolated either. He needs to see you as much as possible.
You will want to talk in a soft, sweet and non threatening voice any time you are around him.

The crate needs a litterbox, and water dish opposite the box, and a soft, comfy bed.

You are not going to leave food inside, not at all. By the time he is ready to be allowed to eat on his own, he will be out of the crate and in that same room only.
All food will come from you.
He will very quickly associate nothing but good from you.

Wait until he is hungry enough to start the feeding process.
You will offer him food in your hand, and he must eat it from your hand and allow you to pet him at the same time with your other hand. If he pulls back and won't let you, you pull back the food. Period.
Leave and try again a bit later. He is not going to starve himself, trust that one!
When he is hungry enough, this will overpower his fear of being pet.
You are not going to put your hand in front of him, you will make him want to come to you.
Once you achieve this, you're on the road.

Pets should progress into full body pets, then into swiping your hand under him as if to pick him up.
Remember as soon as he pulls back, so does the food.

Once you are able to pick him up in the crate, you will progress to picking him up and holding him against you.

You will need to learn how to properly scruff him too. This allows total control over a cat if done correctly.
YOU SHOULD NEVER EVER BE SCRATCHED UP AND BIT LIKE THAT AGAIN!
That's horrible!

Imagine a pile of M&M's on a table. Try to pick up as many as possible with your left hand assuming you are right handed.
Your fingers aren't separated, they are together with only a slight gap in between or the M&M's will slide in between your fingers right? You are using your thumb and fingers to swipe as much skin at the back of the neck as possible, then drawing your hand closed. Don't pinch a small amt, use that good amt of skin in your hands as control.
If the cat, when raised up to lift starts squirming around then use the floor, while holding the scruff, push the cat towards the floor, this gives TOTAL control.

Spend as much time as possible around him, talking out loud, singing, reading, whatever.

He will become a friend to you rather than some fearful little creature, he will learn all good things from you, and trust you.

When he is ready, he can come out of his crate and into one room. The idea is to slowly give him more space rather than so much out of his safe zone.
Remember this, anytime you see his progress stall or revert, go back a couple steps, this is normal.
I really think that forcing him to eat out of your hand without establishing trust first is wrong. Bringing food to him and staying in the room is a better option. Forcing life or death because your impatient is very impractical. He has life if he eats from your hand and death if not that is very selfish. I've taken care of 23 ferals who took over 6 months to come near me. For over 2.5 years reared 8 litter from them. I'm new to this site and new to a feral or stray in my home but am extremely knowledgeable about cats, dogs and animals in general. Forcing them and not willing to be patient will and can break a bond before it starts.
 

msaimee

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
Messages
1,850
Purraise
1,697
Location
Western PA
It should be clear to those of us reading/following this thread that Nacho is lacking experience in taming, so rather than post negatives about crating, which may cause her to question it, why not be supportive?

It's not a matter of being negative or non-supportive, but of people offering different methods that have worked for us in socializing ferals. If the crating method is working for Nacho and progress is being made, then s/he should continue along with this method. I do feel that forcing a cat to eat out of a human's hand is unnecessary and very stressful for the cat, especially for feral or semi-feral cats. Some of them have not had good experiences with human hands--people have tried to hit them or grab them--and some of them never feel comfortable being petted, even after being socialized enough to stay indoors.  Dry food at least should be always available in the crate so you're not forcing a cat to either go hungry or instantly (within a few days) trust a human enough to eat from his/her hand. I can see offering tasty treats from one's hand, but other food should be available. I'm sorry that we disagree on this. I hope that on this forum that people have the freedom to sometimes disagree, and to discuss different methods and ideas about caring for and socializing ferals. 
 

catwoman707

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
7,689
Purraise
2,263
Location
Vallejo, CA
 
It should be clear to those of us reading/following this thread that Nacho is lacking experience in taming, so rather than post negatives about crating, which may cause her to question it, why not be supportive?

It's not a matter of being negative or non-supportive, but of people offering different methods that have worked for us in socializing ferals. If the crating method is working for Nacho and progress is being made, then s/he should continue along with this method. I do feel that forcing a cat to eat out of a human's hand is unnecessary and very stressful for the cat, especially for feral or semi-feral cats. Some of them have not had good experiences with human hands--people have tried to hit them or grab them--and some of them never feel comfortable being petted, even after being socialized enough to stay indoors.  Dry food at least should be always available in the crate so you're not forcing a cat to either go hungry or instantly (within a few days) trust a human enough to eat from his/her hand. I can see offering tasty treats from one's hand, but other food should be available. I'm sorry that we disagree on this. I hope that on this forum that people have the freedom to sometimes disagree, and to discuss different methods and ideas about caring for and socializing ferals. 
Thank you, and I agree that we don't all have the same methods or ideas, and that's okay too. Many years back when I was first learning about taming, believe me, I tried many different approaches, had this person tell me one way, and another person telling me another way.

After lots and lots of trials and errors, failures and successes, I have come to my own conclusions on what is effective for kitties like the OP's here. Age and feralness is always taken into consideration. 

I have an enormous soft spot for ferals, shy kitties, homeless cats especially.

I would never choose a cruel method, it's just not in me.

While holding out on food for some adults might be simply over the top stressful and I wouldn't recommend it, this is a kitten who is not actually a feral but a very unsocialized kitty.

I advised the OP to this method because it fits her situation and kitten. This kitten is from a breeder, so it has had some human interaction, but minimal. 
I really think that forcing him to eat out of your hand without establishing trust first is wrong. Bringing food to him and staying in the room is a better option. Forcing life or death because your impatient is very impractical. He has life if he eats from your hand and death if not that is very selfish. I've taken care of 23 ferals who took over 6 months to come near me. For over 2.5 years reared 8 litter from them. I'm new to this site and new to a feral or stray in my home but am extremely knowledgeable about cats, dogs and animals in general. Forcing them and not willing to be patient will and can break a bond before it starts.
Again, everyone here has the right to their opinions, but we are about support and not outright stating that someone's advice is WRONG or CRUEL or SELFISH. 

This is why we are such an awesome group of members, because we do not do that to another member on the cat site.

I'm not here for any reason other than to offer advice and support to those who come here asking for it. 
 

sasnme2

TCS Member
Kitten
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
4
Purraise
3
I just joined the Cat Site today because I was looking for answers to a completely different subject when I ran across this subject "DO CATS REMEMBER BAD VET TRIPS". I can say, with all honesty, that YES, they certainly do and they never forget! I rescued my precious tuxedo, Sassie, a little over 7 years ago. She was only about 7 weeks old, was wandering around all alone within the elderly community living apartments area where my aunt lived. She had no mama nor siblings that I could find How she survived alone is a mystery and a miracle. I scooped her up and immediately took her to a Banfield Pet Hospital because at the time I didn't have a regular veterinarian. If I had known that day what I was soon to find out, I would never have taken Sassie to that horrific place...a place I would NEVER recommend to anyone now! Sassie weighed only 1.04 pounds and was in poor condition. Even though she was quite ill, she was  sweet and loveable and adored the love and attention she got from the receptionist staff. I had no idea what went on in the ONE room behind locked doors where they took BOTH dogs and cats. I had them do a complete eval and assessment on Sassie; I feared she might have feline leukemia virus, but was elated to find out she didn't. We all know how many times a kitten must go back and forth to the vet for shots and when old enough they must be spayed/neutered. Sassie went through all of that without any problems. She didn't mind the carrier and always did well at the vet.

We're all used to taking our beloved furbabies to the vet where we KNOW our baby's vet by name and the vet knows our pets by name. We stay in the same room with our pets  and converse with our pet's doctor about what is going on with our cherished pets. That is not the case at the Banfield Pet Hospitals! This place is a 'Drop Off' and 'Pick Up at 4:00 p.m for EVERY pet and 'customer'! Everyone has an appointment at the same time. Our precious babies are nothing more than a number at Banfield Pet Hospitals. Everyone MUST sign a yearly contract and everyone MUST have a credit card on file to be billed a monthly fee, which does not include exorbitant charges incurred when your pet is ill or just needs shots. Those fees must be paid upon 'pick-up'.

My Sassie got seriously ill when she was about 5 months old. It broke my heart to just 'drop her off'! Although, I asked, I was denied seeing a vet one-on-one, even though I knew Sassie was very ill. AFTER I filled out the same stupid papers that were required EACH time Sassie went there, they simply took her away from me! 

I do not know what those people did to my precious little girl, but she has NEVER the same again after that visit to Banfield Pet Hospital! I know they place dogs and cats right next to one another, because I peaked in on one occasion and was horrified to see how that room was set up! I know Sassie had been sedated that day because she was a bit groggy when I brought her home. Why they sedated her I will never know. SOMETHING VERY BAD happened to Sassie during the time she was 'in their care'. Sassie was not herself when I brought her home. She was aggressive towards ME and it took all I had to make her understand she was SAFE and no one was going to hurt her. It broke my heart to see her like that. That ONE day changed her entire life and attitude towards ALL veterinarians! I don't know if one of those people deliberately hurt her, if she was attacked, if she woke up too soon from the sedation while on the table and was scared and tried to get away only to be forced back down and sedated again, if she woke up from the sedation while in her carrier on the floor and was frightened to death...I simply do not know what traumatized her to the point that she became so aggressive. I called that place the next day and, of course, no one knew anything. I couldn't even find out what vet treated her!

A few months later I had to take her back to the vet for shots or something and she fought me like she was a wild animal when I tried to get her into her carrier. She growled and hissed at me continuously, I had bite marks and claw marks all over me. Sassie didn't even know me, she didn't hear my voice...it was like she was fighting for her life. On the way to the vet she was still hissing, growling and clawing to get out of the carrier. When I got to Banfield that day, this time I demanded to see a vet! I couldn't even ask for anyone in particular because I had NEVER even met or spoke to one of the veterinarians at the horrible place. I was granted TEN minutes with a vet! Naturally, Sassie remembered that place and went berserk. I was so mad at that point I could have chewed and spit nails at those people for what they had done to Sassie and how she had changed so drastically about going to the vet. Not one person could touch her she was so aggressive...even I couldn't calm her down! To top it off, the veterinarians were scared to death of her! THEY DIDN'T WANT TO GET HURT! The very people that HURT and traumatized my Sassie to this degree didn't want to have anything to do with her. And they call themselves veterinarians!  The story with Banfield Pet Hospital and their 'so-called' veterinarians did not end there.

However, the horrible 'people' at Banfield Pet Hospital hurt and traumatized my precious Sassie so badly, I can no longer even take her to ANY veterinarian because she's labeled as 'too aggressive'. She's a little over 7 years old now and as she gets older, I am seeing days when she doesn't feel well, but there's nothing I can do. I'm afraid to even try to take her to a vet because I'm afraid the stress would kill her.

So, the answer to the question "Do Cats Remember Bad Vet Trips"...the answer is emphatically, unfortunately and, sadly, YES THEY DO...
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #36

nacho

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
46
Purraise
5
I have tried the safe room method for 2 weeks and I was not really getting much progress to be honest; he just hid or crouched in the corner and hissed the whole time. I guess different methods for different cats.

I have to admit I am seeing faster results with this method and he looks less stressed out with our movements around the house now that he is up high and can see we will not hurt him.

He is eating from my hand fine, seems quite comfortable and does not seem that bothered about being smoothed then.

Although I still have not been able to smooth him when not feeding yet. I get the evil eye as if he is wondering what am I going to do......then I wonder what he is going to do so I pull away.

I did get hissed at this evening, first time in a few days, so I took the food away. 

He got up off his bed and was wondering what had happened and where had the food gone. I let him cool done for 10 mins and the he seemed ok.

He still looks freaked out occasionally but it is not as often as he did before.

I honestly feel his stress levels have lowered a bit.
 

catwoman707

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
7,689
Purraise
2,263
Location
Vallejo, CA
 
I have tried the safe room method for 2 weeks and I was not really getting much progress to be honest; he just hid or crouched in the corner and hissed the whole time. I guess different methods for different cats.

I have to admit I am seeing faster results with this method and he looks less stressed out with our movements around the house now that he is up high and can see we will not hurt him.

He is eating from my hand fine, seems quite comfortable and does not seem that bothered about being smoothed then.

Although I still have not been able to smooth him when not feeding yet. I get the evil eye as if he is wondering what am I going to do......then I wonder what he is going to do so I pull away.

I did get hissed at this evening, first time in a few days, so I took the food away. 

He got up off his bed and was wondering what had happened and where had the food gone. I let him cool done for 10 mins and the he seemed ok.

He still looks freaked out occasionally but it is not as often as he did before.

I honestly feel his stress levels have lowered a bit.
I'm so glad you posted this update!

One VERY important factor here though, you really don't want to show him ANY intimidation from you. If he senses a reaction or fear/hesitation, this will delay things a good deal.

His occasional hissing is a last ditch effort from him, and is the remains of his feralish side coming out, and is meant to intimidate.

The more confident you are with him, the more he will submit to you.

The comment you made about you taking your hand away and he got up from his bed to see why, does that mean he is not coming to you for food but your hand is taking it to him?

It's important for him to come to you. It's all part of the process.

It will take time to be able to pet him without food, it won't be until he has gained confidence that he is safe with you touching him, so patience is important.

The process has gone well at this point, so continue as you have been, but please do your best to show your confidence in handling him too. See, if he hisses and you pull back, he was successful with hissing, and will do it again.

If you ignore it and continue talking to him and doing what you were doing, soon enough the hissing will be a thing of the past.
 

mani

Moderator and fervent feline fan
Staff Member
Moderator
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Messages
46,566
Purraise
23,328
Location
Australia
Yes, @Nacho.. wondering how you're getting on?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #40

nacho

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
46
Purraise
5
Well progress is slow with little Nook, I do feel it would be even slower if he were out of the crate.

We are now 9 days in.

He is coming to me and feeding now and has been doing it for a couple of days, his confidence seems to be growing a bit.

Although the hissing has decreased it has not disappeared yet.

I am ignoring it now and carrying on with what I was doing.  When I think he is going to hiss at me I talk to him and ask him is he gonna hiss, that way if he does hiss I am prepared for it and it does not take me by surprise. I'd say we get on average 2 hisses a day.

I have been using a little wand toy in the crate with a little mouse on the end that he seems to love; I try to do that every evening.

How long cats stay in crates for?

I still can't smooth him without food, I am trying a bit each day.
 
Top