I think this is an indication of being really angry

5 months ago I got a new kitten and my cat of almost 2 wasn't happy. He has never been a loving cat as he was treated badly as a younger cat and therefore we wound up with him. He used to say hello by rubbing up against us and sleeping at home all the time. These are both outdoor cats that spend loads of time in the garden. And they do play together as they are both young.... The older cats is always around somewhere and comes when we call him for treats and eats here all the time. He is ever far for this house. However he only sleeps here and has found a place for himself in the basement when the weather is bad. And when he is eating in the kitchen if I come in he runs out away pretty quickly. . He will still eat treats from my hand but won't eat his food if I am around. He never gives us leg rubs any more. And if you touch him he jumps - has always done this hut to a lesser degree so the trust we had established with him is gone. We treat him like a prince but he does I think reject us. Not sure what to think. My partner says he will come in and sleep when the weather is warm. I think he is mad that this is no longer is sole domain. Any thoughts. I spend so much time being upset about this and wondering why he is so rejecting of us.

This should have said my partner says he will come in when it is cold not warm like I said. Sorry so many typos with this ipad.

Probably not.  My guess is someone has been cruel to him.  Being an outdoor kitty, who knows who treats him how?  Which is why its not considered safe to have outdoor kitties.  They don't live long.  So many dangers... Cars, predators, PEOPLE who poison or kill them for "fun."

Cats and other animals have emotions similar to us but they have a different way of expressing it.  People often contribute their own feelings onto animals and it's very rarely the case.

I would bring him in.  If this is not possible, maybe make an enclosure outdoors for both kitties, that way they can enjoy the outdoors safely and you don't have to worry about the dangers.  Jackson Galaxy (My Cat From Hell) has many ideas and videos on how to make your own outdoor kitty haven to keep them safe.

No, he definitely is not rejecting you. He just has other things to do. If he is playing with the newcomer, that is great!  All my cats go outside. When I adopt a new kitten, there is always one of the residents who will "complain" and it will behave like you are at fault.   Give it time. 

I appreciate your taking the time to reply. I don't know what he gets up to but I doubt that anyone has been cruel to him. Cats never wander very far and no one around here would be cruel to him. They couldn't get near him anyway . The neighbours tell me he sometimes wanders into their house but you can never get close to him. It's just strange that he started staying away shortly after the kitten arrived. And now runs out all the time. But I fully 100% support animals rights to roam freely and I would never have an indoor cat. There are loads of gardens around here and they are happy exploring. But I do Really appreciate your thoughts and the idea of an outdoor enclosure. He looks healthy and gets fed beautiful healthy cat food not junk from the supermarket has the kitten to play with and is a free maN of the land maybe I should just chill out and keep feeding him and giving him a warm place to stay and se la vie. Thanks!!!!

I love your comments... Yes he has other things to do. He's a free sentient being.... I need to let him be and come and goes as he pleases. He gets the best care that anyone would want and he is free to come I if he wants to come in. It's been 4 months now since we have the kitten and the 2 of them are sort of ok together so I guess maybe it does need more time. He's had an upsetting past with humans and is very slow to trust. I know. Tax take time. I like what you say one of the residents complains when you adopt a new cat. YES TO ANIMAL RIGHTS AND ANIMAL FREEDOM!!!!!

I think you missed the point.  Yes, freedom is good.  But indoor cats are not held hostage by any means.  Most people prefer to keep them indoors because it's for their safety.  So many dangers out there.  I realize you live in London and for the most part, London has a different view of cats roaming free than Americans do, but the fact remains that there are a lot of dangers.  And gardens, well it's a danger in itself.  Lots of plants and garden plants can be toxic to animals.  Just because it's safe for people, doesn't mean it's safe for animals. 

If you believe with all your heart that a cat belongs outside, I can't stop you from believing that.  However, on average, outdoor kitties live short lives and rarely even make it to 5yrs old.  Whereas indoor kitties can make it to 10, 15+yrs.  And be quite content and FREE indoors. 

Also, I'd like to add that I have a good friend who lives in England, as well.  And she spent a lot of $ and went through a breeder for a beautiful Maine Coon kitten.  And she saw nothing wrong with letting it be an outdoor kitty, much to everyone's advice otherwise.  She said the same thing "Psssh, cats need to roam and be free to be happy."  Well, she had her kitten for 5 months and it got run over and killed.  She was heartbroken.  She decided right then and there that maybe her American friends had a good point and her future kitty needed to be protected.  So he is indoors and allowed out onto the sealed yard ON A HARNESS and leash.  But mostly indoors and she found out that besides the safety factor, indoor kitties can be just as happy as "free" kitties. 

I don't know if I missed the point. I thought your point was that cats for loads of good reasons shouldn't go outside for danger to themselves. I know the catsite has loads of Americans (and I am American too but live here in England) who think cats shouldn't go out as outdoor cats are always referred to as other types of beings. My neighbour's cat is 16 and I know a lot of people who have cats over 10 years old - many. I can't really think a cat could be happy sitting in a house all day long as its so so against their nature but I understand people live and protect their cats and some people live in high rise bldgs where it's not possible for them to go outdoors etc etc.

I don't know where the statistics come from and you might be right but I personally couldn't have an animal that couldn't go out but thanks for replying. The horror of poisoning animals hasn't seemed to arrive here yet and let's hope it never does. .

I live in the UK too (in the countryside) and just last week a friend of mine had to have her beautiful cat put to sleep because he was poisoned, he was only 3 years old. It does not matter where in the world you live there are dangers everywhere.

When your cats go outside you are inviting behavior like you describe and never knowing why.

There are many reasons for cats to be kept inside. You say you support animal freedom and animal rights. Animal freedom is not possible anymore nor has it been in a long time. People took care of that when they started screwing the world up. How can a cat be free in a world with cars and toxic plants and idiotic stupid heartless people. You say that nobody has been cruel to him. How do you know that? How well do you know everyone you live near and everyone that would visit everyone that lives near you. Sorry but it is not possible to have an outdoor cat safe unless you have a catio built for him.

You speak of the UK being so safe for outdoor cats, but there is plenty of animal cruelty in the UK. Just look it up online. I have witnessed horrible things that have been done to cats for people's amusement. You cannot live in a fantasy land of only kind people in the world. Open your eyes. This is a horrible cruel place we have forced cats into. They are not safe outside. If not in danger from humans directly then it is cars or other animals or disease or toxic plants or antifreeze, the list goes on.

Just because one or two cats you know have survived living outside doesn't mean yours will. How can you say you love your cat and put them in danger. There are no animal rights. It sucks but there aren't. We have made this world unfit for most animals to live naturally. Cats have been domesticated longer than most animals. Would you have a horse and let them run free? Nice if you could but the reality is they would die. So why would you think a cat could be safe? Or is it because cats are so easily replaced with such little investment? Don't say you are supporting animals freedom because you are supporting their death by allowing them outside.

If this seems harsh it is because I have seen so many of these 100% free mortally wounded or dead cats in my life and the people are always so upset and never thought it would happen to their cats.

I had outdoor cats all my life growing up, too.  I thought I knew everything, as well... Until I got Persians.  Of course I was always going to keep them indoors.  But there were things I never thought of and never realized I needed to know about cats and their behavior.  So I got an education from a site much like this.  And then I decided to go into Animal Behavior myself as a career path. 

I hope and wish you well but there are so many dangers and you can't trust everyone.  Someone may not even mean to harm your cat and do so unintentionally... It could be a toxic plant, or running over or some other horrible accident.  Actually, if you look up statistics on the lifespan of outdoor cats, you will see that the great majority do not make it past 5 yrs.  Some do.  That's great.  But usually it is because of luck.  It just takes one moment to be regretful like my friend was and still is to this day about her Kit.  She said the same things you are saying.  She lives in England, too.  And I get that their mindset on this issue differs from Americans and other parts of the world.  That is wonderful.  But the mortality rate for an early death increases dramatically with exclusively outdoor cats that are not protected. 

I agree the world fashioned by people is a sewer and all living things suffer because of it. I don't love in fantasy I know how crippling cruel humans are. But thanks for the info. All in all I hope my cat will come back to staying here and is being loved as though he eats here he must be with someone at night My wonder and sadness persists.

I really appreciate your reply and am sure you are right. I wish the world we lived in were a better place for cats and humans but unfortunately humans make that impossible. We have to strive for a better place. .

Hi Sharyn,

I am newbie here but not a newbie to cats. Are your boys fixed? If not - then that may be the issue. If so, maybe your older guy is a bit put out by your new addition. Or he could be going through a bit of a delayed "teenage" phase where he just feels the need to be left alone for awhile

I do not want to get into the indoor vs outdoor debate, however, it is easier to recognize health issues that  might masquerade as behavioral with an indoor cat (or if you have a webcam to watch the outdoor ones.)

I wish you the best with him and please keep everyone posted on what you find out!

Hi WaCat

Thanks for your email. I am also kind of new to this site I only wrote before because this issue of my older- 2 year old cat - has been like this for a few months now. Both cats are neutered however my partner bought the kitten from someone and was told she was a girl and when I took her to get spayed I found out she was a boy. So maybe though they said he was neutered -the last owners - maybe he is not. (The man was horrible to him which is why he is here). It's very hard to make an appointment with a vet because he only comes to eat here and then runs out. I am hoping as soon as it gets cold that he comes Home and I can take him to the vet. Maybe it is teenage stuff I hope so. Thanks for not getting into the indoor/outdoor stuff.. And take care.