Cats don't like liver.

Hello all.

So.. about 3 weeks ago we started to feed the cats liver. They are both 8 months old and were on grain-free wet food, and we used Canagan Salmon kibble as treats. They took to the raw diet with great ease. Nothing seemed to be a problem and to our amazement they also had no trouble with whole chicken wings; they ate them at the first try! Perfect situation, you would say, but there is one problem. They will not eat pieces of raw liver. We tried different kinds, but they refuse. They just smell it and recoil, then walk away.

So, since I do want them to get their liver (I did my research, I know it's important), I feed them whole chicken wings (for their teeth!), but the rest of their food I have to grind to a pulp, to make sure the liver is mixed in with the other foods (muscle meat, heart, kidney, bone, etc), because otherwise they will not touch it.

I know this is also not a real big problem, because the most important thing is making sure they get all their nutrients, but I would prefer them to eat chunks of meat, in stead of ground meat, because I know it's better for their jaws and teeth. 

Now my question is, is there any substitute for liver that I can use? Or maybe some secret, magical topping or fluid or anything that can mask the smell of liver (I know it's the smell they hate, because I tested it by putting some other meat in the same box as the liver (without touching it) and they wouldn't eat it afterwards, which is not surprising because liver smells really bad!)? I have already tried tuna flavoured water from a can, I tried grinding up their Canagan treats and sprinkling it on top, I tried cutting it into really small pieces and mixing it with the bigger chunks of other meats, nothing seems to work.

And not to sound selfish, but aside from chewing chunks being better for my cats, I also am not looking forward to having to grind their food for the rest of their lives. Why am I stuck with the picky cats?! It's ironic because I was told that cats instinctively know that liver is good for them and that they usually love it. But not mine.

So, any ideas would be very welcome. Thank you.

Caralian said:

 
And not to sound selfish, but aside from chewing chunks being better for my cats, I also am not looking forward to having to grind their food for the rest of their lives. Why am I stuck with the picky cats?! It's ironic because I was told that cats instinctively know that liver is good for them and that they usually love it. But not mine.

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You can buy raw ground meat at the pet store or buy from HareTday.com and other online placs. Just a thought Bravo Pet http://www.bravorawdiet.com/index.html , Oma's Pride http://omaspride.com/, and Primal Pet http://www.primalpetfoods.com/ are three that you can find at non-chain specialty pet stores. Bravo and Primal Pet come in frozen rolls/chubs. Oma's Pride is a frozen rectangular pckage. You can buy ground raw meat with bone only and raw ground meat with bone and organs, depending on what your cats like.

Try crushed freeze dried raw or FortiFlora to mask the smell of liver. I think you can also get powdered liver to use instead of fresh liver.

Thank you for your reply. As a last resort I could try some of those diets to see if they like it, but I would be sad to see my cats on a ground diet, because it is very obvious they enjoy crunching on huge chunks and bones. But if they won't eat their liver I am forced to continue giving them ground..

Some cats like dehydrated liver instead of the real thing. Lots of options, there. My pet Carnivore also sells dehydrated treats, including liver.
Make sure you get 100% liver, no other additives, in this case. Oh, and it doesn't matter whether the treat is marketed to dogs or cats; size and ingredient matters.
I *believe* the ratio is 1:4, so 1/8 teaspoon of dried liver = 4/8 teaspoon of liver. (Somebody--feel free to correct me.) You don't have to feed liver every day, so maybe a nice size 'treat' every other day?

Ritz said:

Some cats like dehydrated liver instead of the real thing. Lots of options, there. My pet Carnivore also sells dehydrated treats, including liver.
Make sure you get 100% liver, no other additives, in this case. Oh, and it doesn't matter whether the treat is marketed to dogs or cats; size and ingredient matters.
I *believe* the ratio is 1:4, so 1/8 teaspoon of dried liver = 4/8 teaspoon of liver. (Somebody--feel free to correct me.) You don't have to feed liver every day, so maybe a nice size 'treat' every other day?

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Aahh, this I did not know. Thank you. I should look in to that the next time I go to the pet store. It would be lovely if I could use their worst nightmare as treats.

Dear Ritz,

I just wanted to thank you for your suggestion. Today I went to the pet store and got some freeze dried 100% liver. And they loved it. They saw them as treats and even gave me the "I want more"-look. Thank you! I never would have thought of it myself, but knowing that they will get their much needed liver, I can now continue giving them chunks of meat again, in stead of grinding it. We all enjoy it much more that way.

On behalf of my picky, picky friends, thanks!

Glad to be of service
And any liver is fine, doesn't have to be beef.

Ritz said:

Glad to be of service

And any liver is fine, doesn't have to be beef.

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Ah yes, I bought a bag of chicken livers. They only had beef in the cat section, but you know how companies are, right? They cut it in smaller pieces and put it in a smaller bag (40g in stead of 200g) and then charge more for less! So I bought a big bag, meant for dogs and cut them in pieces myself. They loved it.  

Oh but I am having a bit of trouble with the amounts. The bag says it still has a small % of water, 12%, so how much would I have to give them? I read in another thread that it was approximately 1/4 the amount of raw liver? It seems so little, is it really enough? I did stick to it though, because too much wouldn't be a good idea either.

When I was there I also bought a bag of chicken hearts, just as treats and they loved those as well. So I guess we are all happy and they can crunch again!

[Edit]

Oh I saw you had already mentioned the amounts. 1/4 it is, guessI got the right conversion. Thank you again!

I think the 12% is naturally occuring moisture, perhaps in the processing. I'd still use the 1:4 ratio.

I had the same problem. I went the tough love route. If they didn't eat it, they went without for the day. I'd offer it again to them the day after. If they refused it again, no food that day. On the third day, if they refused it, I gave in and gave them some food they would eat. However, after a day or two of them eating those foods, I'd offer the liver again on the next day. And repeat until they ate it. 

My young won took to it quickly. My old gal took a few tries to get it. But they now both eat full livers (beef and pork) if I give it to them. They will stay away from chicken livers though (which makes sense since most chickens are grain fed and comparably less nutritional value than beef or pork liver). 

stiletto said:

 
I had the same problem. I went the tough love route. If they didn't eat it, they went without for the day. I'd offer it again to them the day after. If they refused it again, no food that day. On the third day, if they refused it, I gave in and gave them some food they would eat. However, after a day or two of them eating those foods, I'd offer the liver again on the next day. And repeat until they ate it.

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Hahaha... I did something similar... 

I took the "you need to eat your liver first, before you get the rest of your dinner" approach. 

So, meal time, when they were hungry, they would get their little sliver of liver (1/4 ounce).   They soon figured out that the faster they ate the liver, the sooner they'd get the rest of their dinner.  After a few weeks, it was no longer necessary to feed it separately.  I do have one who is occasionally stubborn about her melt, though... so, we have to go back to square one for a meal or two over it.

Ah yes. I tried feeding thrm liver for weeks, but they would rather starve than eat it and I really didn't want them to not eat for too long, because I know it's risky and they aren't even mature yet, so fasting them didn't seem the best option.

I also noticed that when I mixed it with the rest of the meat (ground), they didn't enjoy it much. They used to meow and rub my legs and try to force their way onto the kitchen counter at feeding time, but with the liver mixed in they would look really sad and stay on the couch and I had to actually carry them to their bowls, where they would eventually eat, but very reluctantly. "I guess I have to, because otherwise I'll starve."

So yeah, I really do want them to enjoy their food and they really love the freeze-dried liver pieces, so that was the best way to go, imho.

Caralian said:

 

Ritz said:

Glad to be of service

And any liver is fine, doesn't have to be beef.

Click to expand...

Ah yes, I bought a bag of chicken livers. They only had beef in the cat section, but you know how companies are, right? They cut it in smaller pieces and put it in a smaller bag (40g in stead of 200g) and then charge more for less! So I bought a big bag, meant for dogs and cut them in pieces myself. They loved it.  

Oh but I am having a bit of trouble with the amounts. The bag says it still has a small % of water, 12%, so how much would I have to give them? I read in another thread that it was approximately 1/4 the amount of raw liver? It seems so little, is it really enough? I did stick to it though, because too much wouldn't be a good idea either.

When I was there I also bought a bag of chicken hearts, just as treats and they loved those as well. So I guess we are all happy and they can crunch again!

[Edit]

Oh I saw you had already mentioned the amounts. 1/4 it is, guessI got the right conversion. Thank you again!

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Using 1/4 the fresh weight amount as the equivalent dried amount isn't terribly accurate. It depends a lot on the moisture content of the dried which can vary from product to product.

I show how to do an accurate calculation in this thread:

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/264261/calculations-for-dried-liver-as-part-of-frankenprey#post_3404019

For the product you have with 12% moisture and using 70% moisture for raw chicken liver (from USDA database) and assuming we want how much freeze dried is the equivalent of 6 oz of raw liver:

(( 1 - 0.7 ) * 6) / ( 1 - 0.12) = 2 oz

Using the 1/4 method we get 1.5 oz or a difference of 25%. If that were a difference of 25% more rather than 25% less it might be OK but I don't know if I'd want to be feeding 25% less than intended. 

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Edit:

Weeell.. I'm right and I'm wrong.   I'm right about the more accurate way to calculate the dry matter equivalent and that the amount will depend on the water content of the freeze dried product which can vary from one product to another...

BUT, I'm wrong that fresh chicken lever has 70% moisture. I just checked the USDA database again and it shows a water content of 76.46%. That means the freeze dried equivalent of your product would be 1.6 oz. Pretty close to what you would get using the 1/4 method.

Edit2: I see what the problem is. BEEF liver has a moisture content of 70%. So the freeze dried equivalent will depend on both the moisture content of the product and on the type of liver.

I'm going to sound like a ditz here, but what the heck...How often does one feed liver, and how much would one add to a jar of Heinz strained chicken? One of my cats is very difficult to feed but will always (knock on wood) down a jar of chicken, so using that (and Doris Bryant's Pet Cats Their Care and Handling) I've decided to begin feeding him at least a partially home-made diet. I have to begin adding things to the chicken slowly, though, and hope he doesn't notice, and liver is my starting point. If he eats that, then the book and I go to the pharmacy for vitamins, calcium, and such, and then Dr. Maggies from the pet shop. If he eats this, I'll probably have a lot of stupid questions...

Chromium Blues said:

 
I'm going to sound like a ditz here, but what the heck...How often does one feed liver, and how much would one add to a jar of Heinz strained chicken? One of my cats is very difficult to feed but will always (knock on wood) down a jar of chicken, so using that (and Doris Bryant's Pet Cats Their Care and Handling) I've decided to begin feeding him at least a partially home-made diet. I have to begin adding things to the chicken slowly, though, and hope he doesn't notice, and liver is my starting point. If he eats that, then the book and I go to the pharmacy for vitamins, calcium, and such, and then Dr. Maggies from the pet shop. If he eats this, I'll probably have a lot of stupid questions...

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It's not so much how often you feed them liver, it's about how much. Cats don't need to eat liver every day as they store the Vitamin A. So if you would feed them liver twice a week, for example, that would be fine too.

It's the 'how much' that's important. 5% of their diet should be liver.

But I´m not familiar with Dr. Maggies..? And if you are also going to add suplements, I really don't know if I can help you, because then you'd have to figure out how much of the Vitamin A you are supplementing, how much vitamins and minerals are already in your food, what exactly is in Dr. Maggies, etc. 

But I am sure there are people her who knows more about that than I do.

If he eats that, then the book and I go to the pharmacy for vitamins, calcium, and such, and then Dr. Maggies from the pet shop.
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It's not quite that simple--pharmacy won't have the applicable vitamins, calcium and such. Dr. Maggies might be good, but make sure you get the right pet supplement for the right food; for example, Alnutrin comes in a form where you feed raw with organs and bone but just want a "multi vitamin"; and another form where you feed boneless meats and organs.
And of course baby food isn't nutritionally complete, should be used only for a short amount of time. And make sure the babyfood is meat + broth only--no onion, starch, lemon, etc.
I take it you live, well, not in the USA. So you may be able to source ingredients we in the USA can't, and vice versa.

Oh, and no question is stupid--except the one you don't ask. Which in my experience, is always the one I really should have asked!

Dr. Maggies is a very good supplement for skin and coat that works very well, and has little flavour of its own and is easy to disguise which is a major perk with cats. I was told our local pharmacy carries vitamin drops for infants, which Doris Bryant recommends in her book, but I'm going to have to take the book with me to find equivalents as she was writing in the United States and I am in Canada. The baby food I'm using is Heinz strained chicken, which contains only chicken and water. This is only supplemental feeding, as he will eat some canned food and some dry, but is very picky, and if he's going to get baby food daily, its going to be GOOD baby food...He can be a very frustrating animal.

I have been grinding for 12 years.....it's just something I wouldn't change...as i know exactly what's going into their bodies.

Too much liver is not good ...you might check out the Holisticat site...they use whole prey a lot..and have a lot of info about it...

I don't recall them even mentioning trying to feed liver in that way...I think I read..1/2 their meals are whole prey and 1/2 are ground..as that's when you can add all the supplements they need ..including the liver..but only in the amounts they suggest in their recipe..and they explain why and what too much liver does to them.

I don't do the whole prey....I have always ground ....but I do use their recipes...for raw ground..and they also have a recipe for boneless which calls for turkey but you can use chicken instead...

I don't  Love doing it...but I do....and I am 81 years old now...even recooperating from lung cancer surgery...when i first got home..I was in such pain I couldn't even lay down..I managed to grind those chickens..

Bev